D.C. Circuit upholds Affordable Care Act

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Health care extends beyond seeking the personal care of doctor. If you dropped to the floor right now and turn blue because of asphyxiation, someone can dial 911 and get an ambulance. Paramedics will try to stabilize you and bring you to the hospital. Now, if you're saying that you have a choice to decline such help, go ahead and try it. I've seen patients get titled because a doctor determined that the person's life was in danger and that person lacked the capacity to accept medical treatment. All of that takes place without you actually seeking out a doctor and without your explicit permission or even choice.

Then that's on them, not on you.

That's on the ambulance, hospital, doctors, etc. who made that choice.

You yourself made a choice to not get medical attention. If someone else is making that choice for you, then THEY, not you, should have to pay for it.

[Ban Hammer 13,349]

let's stop the name calling please.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Then that's on them, not on you.

That's on the ambulance, hospital, doctors, etc. who made that choice.

You yourself made a choice to not get medical attention. If someone else is making that choice for you, then THEY, not you, should have to pay for it.

Don't be stupid. Our society and laws prevent people from just dying on the streets. When someone needs their life saved, we'll try and save them, whether they like it or not. Perhaps you'd feel more free to live somewhere where that doesn't hold true. But regardless, my point remains - health care is not something you can opt out of. You may choose not to seek the medical care of a doctor as a routine measure, but you don't have the choice not to have medical treatment when your life is in immediate danger.

[The_Dude 1,142]

let's stop the name calling please.

Well, if the derps on this site would actually learn what socialism is, it wouldn't be a problem. Willful ignorance is no real excuse.

[luckytxn 2,264]

Don't be stupid. Our society and laws prevent people from just dying on the streets. When someone needs their life saved, we'll try and save them, whether they like it or not. Perhaps you'd feel more free to live somewhere where that doesn't hold true. But regardless, my point remains - health care is not something you can opt out of. You may choose not to seek the medical care of a doctor as a routine measure, but you don't have the choice not to have medical treatment when your life is in immediate danger.

In a constitutional world medical care you can opt of. You do have choices. If someone takes that choice away from you then they can bear the burden.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Don't be stupid. Our society and laws prevent people from just dying on the streets. When someone needs their life saved, we'll try and save them, whether they like it or not. Perhaps you'd feel more free to live somewhere where that doesn't hold true. But regardless, my point remains - health care is not something you can opt out of. You may choose not to seek the medical care of a doctor as a routine measure, but you don't have the choice not to have medical treatment when your life is in immediate danger.

Again, if someone makes the choice on their own not to be saved/take part in something, then if you force them to take part in it, then that's on YOU, not them. That's not stupid, that's factual.

You can opt-out all you want. That's the beautiful thing about it. People seem to have forgotten what individual liberty is in name of this kollektiv (spelled that way purposefully) bullshit.

Let me put this simply. I don't give a flying ** about you, and I don't expect you to give a flying ** about me. If you live, you live. If you die, you die. It's that simple. Would I stop and help you if you were hurt and dying? Sure i would. However if you told me to back the hell off and to let you go ahead and die, I would oblige. I wouldn't stop you from going out in your own way on your own terms. If you wanted me to save you, then by all means I would as well.It's not a hard concept.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Again, if someone makes the choice on their own not to be saved/take part in something, then if you force them to take part in it, then that's on YOU, not them. That's not stupid, that's factual.

You can opt-out all you want. That's the beautiful thing about it. People seem to have forgotten what individual liberty is in name of this kollektiv (spelled that way purposefully) bullshit.

Let me put this simply. I don't give a flying ** about you, and I don't expect you to give a flying ** about me. If you live, you live. If you die, you die. It's that simple. Would I stop and help you if you were hurt and dying? Sure i would. However if you told me to back the hell off and to let you go ahead and die, I would oblige. I wouldn't stop you from going out in your own way on your own terms. If you wanted me to save you, then by all means I would as well.It's not a hard concept.

Hospitals, emergency and rescue do NOT have the choice to decide who's life they save and if it's yours, you don't really have a choice whether they try to save it or not. You fail to apply your pie-in-the-sky Libertarian philosophy to real world situations and I gave you one example. Here's another - you drive your car off an embankment, suffer multiple injuries and are unconscious. Rescue crews will attempt to save you whether you like it or not, and they will take you directly to the hospital whether you want to or not. Now, once you been taken to the hospital, you can try and refuse medical treatment and leave, but if the attending physician believes you are no longer acting in your own best interests and your life is in grave danger, he can have you titled, taking away your right to refuse.

That's how it works in real life...in this country, in your state, and your even your town. It doesn't matter if you have health insurance or not, nor does it matter if you even have a job.

Edited November 9, 2011 by DFH

[Brad and Vika 129]

Not only that, health insurance is not traded across state lines, therefore is not controllable by the Feds to begin with!!!

The Commerce Clause in our Constitution clearly does allow the Federal Government to regulate insurance companies. Regardless of the delivery model, any company that does ANY business over a state line is engaged in interstate commerce. This issue has been litigated all the way to the top. It is well settled. The huge amount of federal insurance regulation is a clue.

[luckytxn 2,264]

With this idiotic reasoning then we should just mandate everything. From now on all must by mandate eat daily what we deem is the healthy way to eat. You must by mandate buy the food where we say you have to. We also will mandate that all must buy a movie pass weekly. Must get at the theater early to watch the mandated Fed spoon fed indoctrination films. To ensure that all are following the new mandates we are now mandating that all citizens must purchase Cam for each room of their house. Each cam must have IR ability so we can maybe see if all mandates are being followed. To make sure that all cams are working all citizens from now on must purchase internet service from Fed approved providers.

All must from here on out by mandate purchase shoes at the providers we have vetted. We will be mandating what clothing to wear. Failing to adhere to any Fed mandates will incur heavy fines that the IRS will be collecting. Failure to collect then expect the new Homeland Security S.W.A.T. will be paying a visit. Of course there is no court that any citizen can go to except the court of appeals.

[luckytxn 2,264]

[luckytxn 2,264]

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Hospitals, emergency and rescue do NOT have the choice to decide who's life they save and if it's yours, you don't really have a choice whether they try to save it or not. You fail to apply your pie-in-the-sky Libertarian philosophy to real world situations and I gave you one example. Here's another - you drive your car off an embankment, suffer multiple injuries and are unconscious. Rescue crews will attempt to save you whether you like it or not, and they will take you directly to the hospital whether you want to or not. Now, once you been taken to the hospital, you can try and refuse medical treatment and leave, but if the attending physician believes you are no longer acting in your own best interests and your life is in grave danger, he can have you titled, taking away your right to refuse.

That's how it works in real life...in this country, in your state, and your even your town. It doesn't matter if you have health insurance or not, nor does it matter if you even have a job.

My own best interests are my own, not YOUR choice, not THEIR choice, etc. Not even if you "THINK" that those interests aren't best.

That's the problem with the left-wing extremists and the right-wing extremists as well, they all THINK they know what's best for everyone else.

Let me tell you what's best for me. Leaving me the ** alone. I'll leave you alone, you leave me alone, and we'll be all happy as can be. If you need something, feel free to ask and I might oblige, but don't "expect" me to.

[luckytxn 2,264]

My own best interests are my own, not YOUR choice, not THEIR choice, etc. Not even if you "THINK" that those interests aren't best.

That's the problem with the left-wing extremists and the right-wing extremists as well, they all THINK they know what's best for everyone else.

Let me tell you what's best for me. Leaving me the ** alone. I'll leave you alone, you leave me alone, and we'll be all happy as can be. If you need something, feel free to ask and I might oblige, but don't "expect" me to.

Wow. I like this. My next beer I am tipping in honor of this most sage of advice.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Hospitals, emergency and rescue do NOT have the choice to decide who's life they save and if it's yours, you don't really have a choice whether they try to save it or not. You fail to apply your pie-in-the-sky Libertarian philosophy to real world situations and I gave you one example. Here's another - you drive your car off an embankment, suffer multiple injuries and are unconscious. Rescue crews will attempt to save you whether you like it or not, and they will take you directly to the hospital whether you want to or not. Now, once you been taken to the hospital, you can try and refuse medical treatment and leave, but if the attending physician believes you are no longer acting in your own best interests and your life is in grave danger, he can have you titled, taking away your right to refuse.

That's how it works in real life...in this country, in your state, and your even your town. It doesn't matter if you have health insurance or not, nor does it matter if you even have a job.

IF...and I say IF this Act is ruled unconstitutional then the previous mandate requiring treatment MUST also be removed. To ignore that law would be hypocritical.

[Pooky 3,787]

Hospitals, emergency and rescue do NOT have the choice to decide who's life they save and if it's yours, you don't really have a choice whether they try to save it or not. You fail to apply your pie-in-the-sky Libertarian philosophy to real world situations and I gave you one example. Here's another - you drive your car off an embankment, suffer multiple injuries and are unconscious. Rescue crews will attempt to save you whether you like it or not, and they will take you directly to the hospital whether you want to or not. Now, once you been taken to the hospital, you can try and refuse medical treatment and leave, but if the attending physician believes you are no longer acting in your own best interests and your life is in grave danger, he can have you titled, taking away your right to refuse.

That's how it works in real life...in this country, in your state, and your even your town. It doesn't matter if you have health insurance or not, nor does it matter if you even have a job.

How do "Do Not Resuscitate" and "No Extraordinary Measures" instructions work, if not to empower a person's choice to refuse medical care?

Regardless, this is, and always has been, the wrong way to pursue fundamental healthcare reform in this country. Go Vermont.