American exceptionalism

[Captain Oates 911]

Have you or your wife ever heard of the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act? It passed in 1986. And as far as I know, based only on Greece's version of socialized medicine, not all procedures are covered there either and many people pay premiums for a supplemental insurance to see private doctors. For example she had woman exam a few weeks ago, it cost her 120 dollars. Here that would be "free" of any copay under my health insurance plan through my employer. If you don't have insurance it would cost roughly the same, maybe it would cost a little more going by your $174 number for a handshake. I don't see what your point is exactly, because all people can receive emergency operations and care here in the USA. And just like overseas some elective procedures are not covered. Preventative care, you pay out of pocket if you're not insured, but that's not much different from what I understand of universal care, based on Greece. I don't know the details of other countries health plans.

People don't realize that emergency room treatment is not free. They will take your assets. If you are poor and don't have assets, they write it off. If you need a heart transplant and it isn't urgent, its not going to be free. They will take your house if you own it. My brother in law works at denying medical claims and leaving people to die and he is good at it.

There are many procedures which are life saving or essential diagnostic and they are neither emergency nor elective and they are essential and they are not provided free at the emergency room

I don't know about Greece but in the UK, my mother had 25 years of operations and hospital care plus a lovely retirement home until she was 95, and it didn't cost a single penny - ever

I tell my American friends that and they just turn away. They don't want to believe it. They would rather believe "you just get an aspirin". They believe that people over 55 in Europe are left to die. My mother had a hysterectomy at 92 and had a broken arm, leg etc - lots of operations and superb care. The care available totally free in Europe is the subject of appalling lies here in the USA where the population is kept in ignorance of what is really available elsewhere. The medical profession 'farms' the US population and feeds them lies and Americans don't realize how near the financial precipice they are. The majority of bankruptcies are for medical bills and the majority of those people were insured !

Edited November 8, 2011 by Austin Devon

[kytwell 179]

@ Austin this is called the NHS there? I'm reading, so that I am familiarized. From what I reading it isn't all sunshine and rainbows, especially when it comes to the Dental side of it.

[_Simpson_ 250]

I know that people make a lot of donations - to churches first and foremost, then to education, then health and human services and so on. What you fail to acknowledge is that you cannot compare the charitable giving of individuals between the US and other developed countries because the realities on the ground - that which people donate to - is so different. Well, you can compare it, of course, but that's as fruitful an exercise as comparing apples and oranges.

Regardless to what you have been told the money does not go to buying a benz for the pastor. A lot of that money does good around the world. Your talking 200+ billion that the people of the US give compared to the 4 billion that the Swedish gov. gives. Yes that truly is apple and oranges. A lot of people might look at that chart you posted and come to the quick conclusion that Americans are stingy and Swedish are god sent. Is that really a fair conclusion?

Edited November 8, 2011 by _Simpson_

[kytwell 179]

I don't know if I am in favor of these types of changes. Just a small sample of what I have come across:

beccsD said on 25 October 2011

I am pregnant and have a maternity exemption card. I recently went to the dentist as an old filling (from a tooth that broke last time I was pregnant) fell out. The dentist told me that because of the damage to my tooth as a result a filling is not possible and I will need a crown. I thought this would be free with my card but the dentist tells me they have no NHS places left for crowns so not only am I not able to get it free, I would have to pay private cost of almost £300. (at enconomy price!) the dentist said that to get an nhs 'space' for a crown I will have to wait until march 2012. I was given a temporary filling but it was indicated that the sooner I get the work done the better. I really, really can't afford to pay,(especially with a toddler and a baby on the way!) and shouldn't have to, but I don't want to risk making the problem worse if I don't have to. Does anyone know what I am entitled to? Can I get work done at another dentist using exemption without changing the practice I'm registered at? Or will it be ok to wait until March? Please help!

a2ed said on 14 October 2011

I apologise if this is the wrong place to post this...

It's been a few months, and i've yet to be able to see a dentist. Every dentist my wife has called up say that they have reached the maximum number of clients on their register or something and won't be taking on any more new clients. Quite ridiculous actually.

I come from singapore, and to see a dentist, i just have to walk into one and make an appointment, and not be told that they've reached the maximum limit. I dare say that i can get better service in a '3rd world' state. Have to say that people here ought to be ashamed of themselves for allowing things to reach this shoddy state. Pretty backward actually.

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pepechihuahua said on 29 September 2011

At the beginning of Aug 2011 I had an abscess in my mouth, I had an emergency appointment which I was charges £17 plus script charges, a week later I went again for a check up charged £17 and referred to another dentist to have the teeth removed via sleep dentistry , two weeks later I had to have another emergency appointment as the abscess had flarred up again( still waiting for appointment to the referred dentist) I was again charged £17, I was asked if I had an appointment for the extraction which they chased up for me. Last week I went to the dentist who was doing the extraction charged £17 extraction date mid November. So far it has cost me £64 and the offending tooth is still in my mouth,and today my abscess feels as though its flarring up again, so it looks like another £17 and script . Am I the idiot here or is this how its done now, from my first appoinment to the day its extracted it will be 15 weeks. Before you ask yes I have asked can't it be done any earlier, the answer no available appointments.

Source:

http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcosts/Pages/Dentalcosts.aspx

[Alex & Rachel 78]

There are waiting lists for NHS dental, yes. It should be relatively easy to obtain it until the age of 21, however. It is very easy to go private for both dental and eye care in the UK, though, and for MUCH cheaper than in the US, even without insurance.

I paid $300 out of pocket for two pairs of designer prescription glasses; just walked in to a place on the high street and was done two weeks later.

I have dental insurance here but am still considering going back to the UK for private dental check-ups; it'd be cheaper and I love my dentist there.

It's not all sunshine and roses there, no. It's not all sunshine and roses here, though, either; and the difference is that at least in the UK I didn't have to pay for the privilege of having a bad experience! Personally I and everyone in my family has received EXCELLENT care on the NHS, although I understand that's not everyone's experience. The trouble is, most experiences you are going to hear are going to be anecdotal.

Overall my experiences in the US and UK have been pretty comparable so far.

[Captain Oates 911]

@ Austin this is called the NHS there? I'm reading, so that I am familiarized. From what I reading it isn't all sunshine and rainbows, especially when it comes to the Dental side of it.

Dental is virtually all private for new patients and they have all the American scams going

I got mine done by the NHS and it cost $200 total for 4 nice crowns.

Inner city hospitals are usually grim, but hospitals in 'nice' areas are great. Doctors are free, hospitals and surgeons are free. No entitlement period. No contribution records. No annual limits. No condition limits. No lifetime limits. Everything is just totally free

Go into any hospital of your choice.

All this makes it very cheap as there are no huge insurance companies costs and profits and no contribution records needed. If you are alive, you are 100% entitled to everything without limit and at zero cost.

I used to drive to Harrogate about 12 miles out of my area - beautiful hospital, they gave me a free coffee and a biscuit and a leather settee to sit on, and brought the doctor to me.

Not a cent - never ever under any circumstances

This is the way citizens of exceptional countries should be treated

Edited November 8, 2011 by Austin Devon

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

The U.S. has the potential to become the greatest nation on Earth again.

Let's look at the root of the problem: corporate money controlling politics. Corporations own everything, including the media and the politicians. Running for office requires vast amounts of money, and that comes from those who expect a favor later on. Since the corporations control the media, they can bring a nobody to the top, or bring a winner down to the bottom by reporting "alleged affairs with a hooker/co-worker/male escort . . . you name it.

So what would change the U.S. for the better is publically funded elections. Let the big corporations donate money, let them get a tax write off for it, but it has to go all in one pot and this pot will feed all candidates equally.

Without the secret obligations that politicians have to the corporate moguls, they can actually cut back on bombing the sh*t of every other country of the world, without Halliburton being able to do anything about it. They can implement tariffs on products not "Made in the U.S.A." without corporations who outsourced American jobs in the first place being able to do anything about it. They can implement laws that would protect our environment and coastline, without oil corporations like BP who f*cked up Alabama and Lousiana, being able to do anything about it.

They can allow medications that sell in Canada for $46 to be sold in the U.S. for the same money, and not $111, without the pharma corporations being able to do anything about it. They can decide that a 1-mile ambulance ride should not cost $1,500, but $150, without the hospital corporations being able to do anything about it. With the money saved from the wars, they can implement either a single payer health care system (go Vermont!) or at least a public option without the health insurance corporations being able to do anything about it.

Without corporate money controlling everything, we can again have a government by the people for the people. We need it, and the 99%ers are those who may be able to make it happen.

[Captain Oates 911]

jeepers I wish the 99 ers could make a difference but they aren't hurting the big boys who flick cigar ash on them from their penthouses.

The slave masters have corralled the wage slaves and there is no Lincoln to come and free them this time

Their minds are controlled by the tv adverts of their masters to the extent that they go and vote for lashes and leg irons, with the cost to be taken from the slave's bread rations.

Closed minds, controlled minds, and all wrapped in deep religious superstitions - where is the hope, where is the Abe Lincoln to set them free from the doctors and dentists and big corporations ?

It's not going to happen because there is no mechanism and the nature of the brainwashed turkeys who vote for thanksgiving will not change

Edited November 8, 2011 by Austin Devon

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Yes okay I do understand the concept. If you do not have the money for the copays, you're still out of luck though.

I don't know what they do and how they roll down in Greece - seems they have an issue or two down there - but in Germany and France and the Netherlands and Belgium and Switzerland and Austria and Finland and Sweden and Norway and Denmark - you know - Western Europe generally, those that lack the capacity to pay co-pays will have them waived or compensated in some way, shape or form. There is NO SUCH THING as people not getting the medical care they need because they lack funds or insurance. IT DOES NOT HAPPEN. PERIOD. **, I sound like Herman Cain here. Only I am not lying about what I say.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Regardless to what you have been told the money does not go to buying a benz for the pastor. A lot of that money does good around the world. Your talking 200+ billion that the people of the US give compared to the 4 billion that the Swedish gov. gives. Yes that truly is apple and oranges. A lot of people might look at that chart you posted and come to the quick conclusion that Americans are stingy and Swedish are god sent. Is that really a fair conclusion?

Oh, so now were down to absolute numbers. We take public aid and private aid in the US, make assumptions about how much of that actually goes outside the country (it's a rather small portion of that $200BN - 15BN or so) and then stack that up against only the government contribution of a country the size of my backyard - okay my backyard ain't that big but you get the point. That's apples and oranges indeed.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Personally I and everyone in my family has received EXCELLENT care on the NHS, although I understand that's not everyone's experience.

Not everyone receives excellent care here. In fact, under the NHS you might receive great care or mediocre care. Under the US system, you might receive either of those for much more money or just be shite out of luck and get no care at all. It's that latter element coupled with the outrageous cost of our system that tells every person with a sound mind that we've got to change course drastically on this to make the system 1) more universal and 2) more efficient.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Oh, so now were down to absolute numbers. We take public aid and private aid in the US, make assumptions about how much of that actually goes outside the country (it's a rather small portion of that $200BN - 15BN or so) and then stack that up against only the government contribution of a country the size of my backyard - okay my backyard ain't that big but you get the point. That's apples and oranges indeed.

Yes I make it a habit to look at the big picture. So now it has to leave the country to be significant?

The main point I'm making here is that America is not stingy and that chart that you referred to misleads people. Libs love to throw that chart in our face all the while not understanding how wrong it really is

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Yes I make it a habit to look at the big picture. So now it has to leave the country to be significant?

If you looked at the big picture, you'd be looking at something comparable to the US - say Western Europe as a whole. Then you'd look at what all this charity here really does - it fills gaps in health and human services that simply do not exist like that in Europe. People there have decided that they will take care of their poor, sick, disabled and elderly as a country. We haven't made that commitment here and have hence some extra charitable giving going on. Any way you look at it, you'll be comparing Apples and Oranges.