American exceptionalism

[_Simpson_ 250]

Alan, as usual I heartily enjoy all your posts.

Clearly for entertainment purposes considering 90% of his posts are nothing but him trolling? You not hoping to walk away "smarter" are you?

[Captain Oates 911]

Alan, as usual I heartily enjoy all your posts.

Stay with it - any minute now they are all going to be converted to capitalistic socialism !

Private hand outs (charity) is the same as feeding your slaves. I don't like charity. If someone is deserving of help with food, housing, health - then it should be an entitlement as the absence of those needs benefits every tax payer - it benefits them because they are then surrounded by healthy, educated non-criminals who don't have fleas or live under bridges.

Titus Salt was an ueber capitalist a hundred years before pensions and public healthcare, but he had his head screwed on right - he said:

The cholera most forcibly teaches us our mutual connection. Nothing shows more powerfully the duty of every man to look after the needs of others.

Titus Salt

Imagine trying to eliminate cholera using charity - its too urgent for charity

Right wingers don't rely on charity to fight wars - they forcibly tax us, take our sons, and kill them - what is libertarian about that ?

Charity is a smokescreen for misplaced and inefficient meanness

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

We should look at countries as a whole.

The truth of the matter is that when and only when you look at what the gov. gives and turn it into a percentage can countries like Sweden be compared to the US. You wouldnt let your gov. play with the numbers like that why do you let the rest of the world? We are a very giving country and charts like the one you posted are very misleading.

That's exactly what I am doing - looking at the country. Last I checked, the country is thr USA not John and Jane Doe. Consider also that that "very misleading chart" I posted here, I came across on the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation website. Now, if there's an American family that can pride itself with their charitable giving (both at home and abroad), it's that family. And if that charitable family points out that - while giving a lot themselves, privately - as a country we're far behind on our giving compared to other developed countries, then I don't think that's anything misleading or something that should be dismissed but rather a statement worth thinking about. The facts are what they are. How you square them with that "America is the greatest nation on earth" perception is really up to you.

Look, I like this country. It's treated me well. But I don't pretend that America is any way perfect or always better than any other place on earth. In some respects it is. In others it is not. Pointing that out and speaking openly about it is not some treasonous act or a display of an "America sucks" attitude as you would describe it. It's what this nation needs to do to continue improving. I have a daughter and would like for her to have as good a shot at a great life as I feel I had. Public policy is what will decide whether she will or won't.

[Captain Oates 911]

Clearly for entertainment purposes considering 90% of his posts are nothing but him trolling? You not hoping to walk away "smarter" are you?

Trolling eh ? That's a cheap slur which is always deployed by the inarticulate and the ones who are frustrated because they are losing the debate. I like spicy political/religious subjects but that isn't trolling. Accusing a serious poster of trolling is trolling. Your dancing heads signature sums up your seriousness and what amuses you.

Stick to the subject and don't take pops at me personally - oh, and stop trolling

[_Simpson_ 250]

That's exactly what I am doing - looking at the country. Last I checked, the country is thr USA not John and Jane Doe. Consider also that that "very misleading chart" I posted here, I came across on the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation website. Now, if there's an American family that can pride itself with their charitable giving (both at home and abroad), it's that family. And if that charitable family points out that - while giving a lot themselves, privately - as a country we're far behind on our giving compared to other developed countries, then I don't think that's anything misleading or something that should be dismissed but rather a statement worth thinking about. The facts are what they are. How you square them with that "America is the greatest nation on earth" perception is really up to you.

Look, I like this country. It's treated me well. But I don't pretend that America is any way perfect or always better than any other place on earth. In some respects it is. In others it is not. Pointing that out and speaking openly about it is not some treasonous act or a display of an "America sucks" attitude as you would describe it. It's what this nation needs to do to continue improving. I have a daughter and would like for her to have as good a shot at a great life as I feel I had. Public policy is what will decide whether she will or won't.

I never said America was the greatest, I just laugh at those who think its the worst when referring to developed nations. That tells me more about their blinding hate than it does the state of this country.

You not looking at the country as a whole if you don't take into consideration what John and Jane Doe are doing, that is my point. A country is so much more than just its gov. If you consider what John and Jane Doe are doing then the chart you posted becomes a meaningless. That chart just help countries like Sweden feel special about themselves.

If you want to talk percentages and narrow it down to just one field then sure you have a point, the USA is lacking. The problem is that if you want to be honest about this you have to look at the bigger picture and realize that we are on the top of the list and not the bottom like the chart would lead you to believe.

I don't think America is perfect but damn if I'm going to act like the rest of the world is. I'm tired of hearing we're the problem and we need to be more like Europe.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Trolling eh ? That's a cheap slur which is always deployed by the inarticulate and the ones who are frustrated because they are losing the debate. I like spicy political/religious subjects but that isn't trolling. Accusing a serious poster of trolling is trolling. Your dancing heads signature sums up your seriousness and what amuses you.

Stick to the subject and don't take pops at me personally - oh, and stop trolling

I've been here way too long to fall for that one, you troll quite often. You may be better at it than some people but nevertheless trolling is trolling.

[Alex & Rachel 78]

Clearly for entertainment purposes considering 90% of his posts are nothing but him trolling? You not hoping to walk away "smarter" are you?

While I am entertained by his writing style, I do actually think he has many good points to make and I agree with a great many of his posts.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I never said America was the greatest, I just laugh at those who think its the worst when referring to developed nations. That tells me more about their blinding hate than it does the state of this country.

You not looking at the country as a whole if you don't take into consideration what John and Jane Doe are doing, that is my point. A country is so much more than just its gov. If you consider what John and Jane Doe are doing then the chart you posted becomes a meaningless. That chart just help countries like Sweden feel special about themselves.

If you want to talk percentages and narrow it down to just one field then sure you have a point, the USA is lacking. The problem is that if you want to be honest about this you have to look at the bigger picture and realize that we are on the top of the list and not the bottom like the chart would lead you to believe.

I don't think America is perfect but damn if I'm going to act like the rest of the world is. I'm tired of hearing we're the problem and we need to be more like Europe.

Who says America is the worst? I merely say that everything considered it is no better and no worse than other developed countries. And that is then branded by folk like you as America hating. It isn't. The opposite is true. I would submit that those that don't want to acknowledge Americas various shortcomings are the ones that put America's future at risk. How do you put at risk the future of the very country you profess to love so deeply? It's a fact that we're neglecting too many vitally important issues on the national stage - our infrastructure, the environment, the education of our next generation, tomorrow's technologies and, yes, the middle class that once made this nation great. And we're neglecting all these things, the very foundation on which the 21st century America would want to stand for what exactly?

[_Simpson_ 250]

Who says America is the worst? I merely say that everything considered it is no better and no worse than other developed countries. And that is then branded by folk like you as America hating. It isn't. The opposite is true. I would submit that those that don't want to acknowledge Americas various shortcomings are the ones that put America's future at risk. How do you put at risk the future of the very country you profess to love so deeply? It's a fact that we're neglecting too many vitally important issues on the national stage - our infrastructure, the environment, the education of our next generation, tomorrow's technologies and, yes, the middle class that once made this nation great. And we're neglecting all these things, the very foundation on which the 21st century America would want to stand for what exactly?

Hate is strong word and I probably could of used a better word but nevertheless my point was clear. People who do want to examine America's shortcomings can be just as damaging as those who don't want recognize what makes it unique and great. Often with the "haters" you don't see a equal balance of "love" and "hate". Same could be said for the "lovers". There is a lot of people out there who don't think America is perfect but they're not going to let you know that when its 24/7 america this, america that. The main reason I never end up discussing America's faults on this forum is because we have too many people like Alan who never quit complaining. There is enough hate here, time to start spreading the love.

While I am entertained by his writing style, I do actually think he has many good points to make and I agree with a great many of his posts.

I was afraid of that...

Edited November 8, 2011 by _Simpson_

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Hate is strong word and I probably could of used a better word but nevertheless my point was clear. People who do want to examine America's shortcomings can be just as damaging as those who don't want recognize what makes it unique and great. Often with the "haters" you don't see a equal balance of "love" and "hate". Same could be said for the "lovers". There is a lot of people out there who don't think America is perfect but they're not going to let you know that when its 24/7 america this, america that. The main reason I never end up discussing America's faults on this forum is because we have too many people like Alan who never quit complaining. There is enough hate here, time to start spreading the love.

But we do spread the love. Quite frequently. Including Alan. Look, we live here because we want to live here not because this is home where were born and raised. That by itself is a pretty deep expression of love and appreciation for the country. We chose to make it our home. I've had a pretty good run after moving to the US. Haven't gotten rich but I am doing reasonably well and I am happy with my life. Do you really believe I'd be here if I hated this country?

[Krikit 1,164]

I never said America was the greatest, I just laugh at those who think its the worst when referring to developed nations. That tells me more about their blinding hate than it does the state of this country.

You not looking at the country as a whole if you don't take into consideration what John and Jane Doe are doing, that is my point. A country is so much more than just its gov. If you consider what John and Jane Doe are doing then the chart you posted becomes a meaningless. That chart just help countries like Sweden feel special about themselves.

If you want to talk percentages and narrow it down to just one field then sure you have a point, the USA is lacking. The problem is that if you want to be honest about this you have to look at the bigger picture and realize that we are on the top of the list and not the bottom like the chart would lead you to believe.

I don't think America is perfect but damn if I'm going to act like the rest of the world is. I'm tired of hearing we're the problem and we need to be more like Europe.

So if you learned that John and Jane Doe from Sweden gave more than John and Jane Doe from the US..... how does that reconcile with your beliefs?

The US people can't even come to a concensus on looking after its own. What in the world makes you think they top the list in private foreign aide?

[_Simpson_ 250]

But we do spread the love. Quite frequently. Including Alan. Look, we live here because we want to live here not because this is home where were born and raised. That by itself is a pretty deep expression of love and appreciation for the country. We chose to make it our home. I've had a pretty good run after moving to the US. Haven't gotten rich but I am doing reasonably well and I am happy with my life. Do you really believe I'd be here if I hated this country?

That isn't love that Alan is spreading.

My main point is that the neg attitude 90% of the time is not good for this country. Like I said better words out there than hate but nevertheless its possible hate and love at the same times.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

My main point is that the neg attitude 90% of the time is not good for this country.

Tell it to the Republicans. Negative attitude is all they've been spreading for years now. Not just 90% of the time but all the time. And you're right. That ain't good for the country.

That isn't love that Alan is spreading.

So he's a masochist? Is that what you're saying?

[_Simpson_ 250]

So if you learned that John and Jane Doe from Sweden gave more than John and Jane Doe from the US..... how does that reconcile with your beliefs?

The US people can't even come to a concensus on looking after its own. What in the world makes you think they top the list in private foreign aide?

That would be a fictitious world because they are not but if they were I would have a different take on the generosity of the Swedish people. There is no reason the American people should get a bum rap on this issue and that is exactly what that chart does, gives us a bum rap.

The amount of money that Americans give to charity is staggering. As far as "looking after our own", the problem there is much bigger than money and would take a good amount of time to discuss.

Edited November 8, 2011 by _Simpson_

[_Simpson_ 250]

Tell it to the Republicans. Negative attitude is all they've been spreading for years now. Not just 90% of the time but all the time. And you're right. That ain't good for the country.

I agree with you on this one;I'm tired of it too.

So he's a masochist? Is that what you're saying?

No, I'm saying he is the king of Negville.