American exceptionalism

[_Simpson_ 250]

I don't know - I got pretty sick of hearing all my childhood that we lived in the best country in the world. It just made me want to vomit. It was like living in the Willie Wonka Chocolate Factory, where everything was just too sweet, and I was supposed to swallow it and have false pity for all the poor people of the world (everybody else), who just didn't have the good luck of living here.

Great people and great countries do great things. As far as aid goes we do quite a bit. I grew up in a household that constantly reminded me of how good we have it here and to help the ones who are not so fortunate.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Great people and great countries do great things. As far as aid goes we do quite a bit.

Sorry to bust that "exceptionalism" bubble there but we're actually pretty pathetic in terms of our committment to foreign aid - we give less than two tenth of a percent of our GDP. That's less than half the average amopng our peers and less than a third of the quite reasonable 0.7% target. And there is one of the two major political parties out there advocating that we get even more pathetic by slashing the substandard aid we provide today down to nada. Don't think I need to say which one of the two that is.

Edited November 8, 2011 by Mr. Big Dog

[Golden Gate 530]

Great people and great countries do great things. As far as aid goes we do quite a bit. I grew up in a household that constantly reminded me of how good we have it here and to help the ones who are not so fortunate.

Yes, you are right to some degree. There are lots of great people who do great things, and I am grateful I was taught to think of the less fortunate, also. My point was that there was, to me, an extreme ethno-centrism (people here aren't worldly), fear of the unknown, and somewhat self-righteousness, especially where I grew up in the Midwest, and I thank God I had the opportunity to move away and travel around the world to see how people really were elsewhere, because I found there are great people who do great things all around the world, not just in the U.S. People do things differently in different places, and I respect, a lot, these wonderful differences and enjoy learning how other cultures exist, their traditions, their thoughts, their own ways of being. The world is an endlessly fascinating place, and when people get out of their comfort zones, it is humbling and magical.

Edited November 8, 2011 by Golden Gate

[Alex & Rachel 78]

We had the same thing in England back then but it was all hush-hush. We were quietly told that Yorkshire was the best county in England and England was the best country in Britain and Britain was the best country in the world and that white people were superior to all others because the others lived in hot countries where it was too hot to work so they would always be poor. We were told that the Queen was directly appointed by god who had chosen England for her to rule from. All this was told to us by our teachers at school. They pointed to the world map which was mostly colored red. We owned the world.

Interesting to hear this! By the time I went to school (in the late 80s/90s) pretty much all of Britain's history from 1700 until WW2 was quietly ignored. Even in subjects like geography all of our case studies were elsewhere in the world. I think the only time the Queen was even referenced by teachers was on an anniversary year (probably 1992?).

[_Simpson_ 250]

Sorry to bust that "exceptionalism" bubble there but we're actually pretty pathetic in terms of our committment to foreign aid - we give less than two tenth of a percent of our GDP. That's less than half the average amopng our peers and less than a third of the quite reasonable 0.7% target. And there is one of the two major political parties out there advocating that we get even more pathetic by slashing the substandard aid we provide today down to nada. Don't think I need to say which one of the two that is.

Why do you not want to consider what the individual people are giving? Is it because it doesn't fit in with your "america sucks" attitude?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Why do you not want to consider what the individual people are giving? Is it because it doesn't fit in with your "america sucks" attitude?

You said that great people and great countries do great things and then pointed to aid. I just wanted to point out that as a country, America does for less than other nations when it comes to aid for developing countries. While I won't dispute that some Americans engage greatly in aid to others, as a country we don't look so great on this scale. Certainly not exceptional. Not even close. That's not a matter of attitude but rather a matter of fact. If facts don't square with your perception of American greatness, then that's an issue you'll have to sort out somehow.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Yes, you are right to some degree. There are lots of great people who do great things, and I am grateful I was taught to think of the less fortunate, also. My point was that there was, to me, an extreme ethno-centrism (people here aren't worldly), fear of the unknown, and somewhat self-righteousness, especially where I grew up in the Midwest, and I thank God I had the opportunity to move away and travel around the world to see how people really were elsewhere, because I found there are great people who do great things all around the world, not just in the U.S. People do things differently in different places, and I respect, a lot, these wonderful differences and enjoy learning how other cultures exist, their traditions, their thoughts, their own ways of being. The world is an endlessly fascinating place, and when people get out of their comfort zones, it is humbling and magical.

I agree there is no shortage of people here that will hang their hat on "we are the best" and not give a damn about the rest of the world but just because you "give a damn" that does not mean you need to throw your own country under the bus. It has been my experience that most people who do a lot of traveling see only the great things about another country which is mainly the only thing you're exposed to when you travel. It gets old listening to these well traveled people people talk about how great the rest of the world is all the while looking down on this country.

[Captain Oates 911]

I am pretty sure that I could not have made it to the professions if I had been born in the USA. I was lazy and an opportunist and I took the easy route by using the generous public funds. When I went to study accountancy, I had a free house and free tuition fees and a grant of money that was 25% bigger than what I had been earning before I packed in my job and went to college.

I did make it and had the work ethic so long as I was being supported. The country made a huge profit from its investment in me in the tax I paid over the next 30 years.

This is the way the US should go - it's capitalism in action. Instead of threatening them with a 100k loan, give them the tuition free. They can't capitalize on it without paying tax and if they drop out, then they would have defaulted on the loan anyway.

Then there is the health care thing - its the biggest factor damaging the US. The cost is horrendous and it all ends up as an on-cost on US production of goods and services. It must be reduced from 17% to 7% in the way that most other countries have done it - universal health care.

All these barriers to US progress boil down to one thing and that is the political process in the US which is stuck, and has no consensus. A parliamentary process like the UK's does not require consensus and the elected majority gets to try out its ideas. That is not the US system which is either consensus or paralysis.

The constitution which required consensus while the loot from natural resources was plentiful, was very successful (apart from the civil war) but is now the barrier to exceptionalism.

In practice, there is no mechanism to change it, and a body in motion carries on in its path until something external changes it.

[_Simpson_ 250]

You said that great people and great countries do great things and then pointed to aid. I just wanted to point out that as a country, America does for less than other nations when it comes to aid for developing countries. While I won't dispute that some Americans engage greatly in aid to others, as a country we don't look so great on this scale. Certainly not exceptional. Not even close. That's not a matter of attitude but rather a matter of fact. If facts don't square with your perception of American greatness, then that's an issue you'll have to sort out somehow.

I also said in that same post "I grew up in a household that constantly reminded me of how good we have it here and to help the ones who are not so fortunate."

You're only addressing government aid/charity. Need I remind you, you live in the land of "Keep the gov. out of my pocket" although nowadays... Anyways we do things a little different here than in Europe. Sweden gets the high numbers(percentages) because of gov. aid. Wouldn't you see Sweden as a more generous country if the bigger part of the giving was coming from the individuals rather than the gov.?

[_Simpson_ 250]

I am pretty sure that I could not have made it to the professions if I had been born in the USA. I was lazy and an opportunist and I took the easy route by using the generous public funds. When I went to study accountancy, I had a free house and free tuition fees and a grant of money that was 25% bigger than what I had been earning before I packed in my job and went to college.

I did make it and had the work ethic so long as I was being supported. The country made a huge profit from its investment in me in the tax I paid over the next 30 years.

This is the way the US should go - it's capitalism in action. Instead of threatening them with a 100k loan, give them the tuition free. They can't capitalize on it without paying tax and if they drop out, then they would have defaulted on the loan anyway.

Then there is the health care thing - its the biggest factor damaging the US. The cost is horrendous and it all ends up as an on-cost on US production of goods and services. It must be reduced from 17% to 7% in the way that most other countries have done it - universal health care.

All these barriers to US progress boil down to one thing and that is the political process in the US which is stuck, and has no consensus. A parliamentary process like the UK's does not require consensus and the elected majority gets to try out its ideas. That is not the US system which is either consensus or paralysis.

The constitution which required consensus while the loot from natural resources was plentiful, was very successful (apart from the civil war) but is now the barrier to exceptionalism.

In practice, there is no mechanism to change it, and a body in motion carries on in its path until something external changes it.

It looks like were the ones getting your tax money now.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

You're only addressing government aid/charity. Need I remind you, you live in the land of "Keep the gov. out of my pocket" although nowadays... Anyways we do things a little different here than in Europe. Sweden gets the high numbers(percentages) because of gov. aid. Wouldn't you see Sweden as a more generous country if the bigger part of the giving was coming from the individuals rather than the gov.?

Well, yes. When talking about the country, one focuses on what the country does. Your issue is that you see "the government" as some sort of a foreign object rather than what it is - which is all of us as a nation. You may have some futuristic idea of a world organized without nations as the building blocks. That's not the world we live in, though. We live in a world that's a community of nations represented by and interacting through their respective governments.

[Captain Oates 911]

I also said in that same post "I grew up in a household that constantly reminded me of how good we have it here and to help the ones who are not so fortunate."

You're only addressing government aid/charity. Need I remind you, you live in the land of "Keep the gov. out of my pocket" although nowadays... Anyways we do things a little different here than in Europe. Sweden gets the high numbers(percentages) because of gov. aid. Wouldn't you see Sweden as a more generous country if the bigger part of the giving was coming from the individuals rather than the gov.?

I don't like charity because it can be withheld in an instant and on any basis.

For instance the food stamps program does not depend upon a person being of good character or belonging to a particular church .

Charity givers take those factors into consideration if they want to.

Charity is often done for the aggrandizement of the donor or for tax reasons etc

Entitlements are good. Entitlements don't make the receiver feel small or bound to the donor.

I have given hand outs (charity) to my feckless son and it interferes with the relationship and doesn't help anyone. Of course the American way is to let your son die to teach him a lesson in capitalism. Darwinism is celebrated in the land that doesn't believe in Darwin's theory - ironic.

State entitlements to make sure people are fed and housed are invaluable in keeping social cohesiveness and are a mark of civilization

Universal health care as an entitlement is simply wonderful and takes the fear out of society. Americans live in fear of ill health - or they will when they get to Medicare age.

Imagine living in a society where co-pays, deductibles, annual limits, lifetime limits, part A part B, in network, out of network, assignments etc etc etc simply don't exist. The rest of the first word does live in that world. They feel exceptionally good about that

There is no such country as "Europe". Germany, France and many others have a strong economy and manage to care for their people at the same time. They don't see that as exceptional, but normal

The US is heading to be rated as exceptionally uncaring about its own population

Note that my positions are not socialistic in order to be nice, and they don't involve redistribution - they are capitalistic in that a healthy and educated population is beneficial to all - in other words it creates wealth and that benefits all

Public sewers are a socialistic concept but they prevent typhoid and benefit everyone.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Well, yes. When talking about the country, one focuses on what the country does. Your issue is that you see "the government" as some sort of a foreign object rather than what it is - which is all of us as a nation. You may have some futuristic idea of a world organized without nations as the building blocks. That's not the world we live in, though. We live in a world that's a community of nations represented by and interacting through their respective governments.

We should look at countries as a whole.

The truth of the matter is that when and only when you look at what the gov. gives and turn it into a percentage can countries like Sweden be compared to the US. You wouldnt let your gov. play with the numbers like that why do you let the rest of the world? We are a very giving country and charts like the one you posted are very misleading.

[Alex & Rachel 78]

Alan, as usual I heartily enjoy all your posts.

[_Simpson_ 250]

I don't like charity because it can be withheld in an instant and on any basis.

For instance the food stamps program does not depend upon a person being of good character or belonging to a particular church .

Charity givers take those factors into consideration if they want to.

So? I'm not of the mind that the gov. knows whats better for us than we do as a individual. If a charitable organization is doing something illegal the gov. will take the steps to shut them down and rightly so. Also christian organizations don't just help Christians, they help everybody.