Apartheid and the occupation of Palestine

[luckytxn 2,265]

Thanks. I noticed that this thread was getting off-topic, and I assume it's because there isn't much actual knowledge of the laws and practices that inspire the apartheid label that dogs Israel. Despite WoM's prolonged efforts to educate, it seems that there is always room for more information.

Always more room. I knew most here would not comment on the merits of the article but react to it the way shown so far.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Always more room. I knew most here would not comment on the merits of the article but react to it the way shown so far.

I knew that, too. I was contractually prohibited for a few years from commenting on this subject, so I kept quiet. Opening up recently, it's been interesting to note the avoidance of most and hostile reactions of others to my own personal story as a present absentee. When it comes to that, it's like I don't exist. I'm sure that most westerners don't have a clue about the lives of Arab Israelis, so the reactionary response is all there is.

[luckytxn 2,265]

Most westerners don't have a clue about even their own surroundings yet alone the middle east, They take what is spoon fed them from the media and take it all as gospel. That is how we get an Obama as president and anyone with a brain should have known he was an incompetent moron. People can dig more as there is the internet and find a wealth of info on their plight. If they had to live even a fraction of the dehumanizing mistreatment they have there they would scream rightly. Israels lobby and kind treatment in the media here is a disgrace.

[Golden Gate 530]

According to my friend, his family's house and shop were taken from them in Jerusalem, and the farm that they own in Hebron is unusable, because they are only allowed by the Israeli government to visit it twice per year because of the fact that it is too close to an Israeli settlement. The result is that their orchard has died, as they could only tend to it two times per year. He said they are the fortunate ones, however, because they had another house in Hebron. Many families were very unfortunate, lost everything, and that is why Palestinians are so angry and fighting back. There are Palestinian refugees that were expelled from Iraq at the time of the fall of Saddam Hussein - because Iraquis felt that the Palestinians were given favorable treatment by Saddam. They were re-settled in Brazil and Italy, but have been poorly treated, and therefore unable to succeed in their new environments - in fact, many of those in Italy left, en masse, to migrate to Sweden, because of their poor treatment in Sicily at the whim of the Mafia. Here is a site in reference to their treatment in Brazil: My link and one on Italy: My link

[Danno 1,228]

According to my friend, his family's house and shop were taken from them in Jerusalem, and the farm that they own in Hebron is unusable, because they are only allowed by the Israeli government to visit it twice per year because of the fact that it is too close to an Israeli settlement. The result is that their orchard has died, as they could only tend to it two times per year. He said they are the fortunate ones, however, because they had another house in Hebron. Many families were very unfortunate, lost everything, and that is why Palestinians are so angry and fighting back. There are Palestinian refugees that were expelled from Iraq at the time of the fall of Saddam Hussein - because Iraquis felt that the Palestinians were given favorable treatment by Saddam. They were re-settled in Brazil and Italy, but have been poorly treated, and therefore unable to succeed in their new environments - in fact, many of those in Italy left, en masse, to migrate to Sweden, because of their poor treatment in Sicily at the whim of the Mafia. Here is a site in reference to their treatment in Brazil: My link and one on Italy: My link

Seems like these folks have trouble where ever they go, so they move on to sweden...... wonder if that sweet welfare system had anything to do with targeting that specific country?

[Golden Gate 530]

Seems like these folks have trouble where ever they go, so they move on to sweden...... wonder if that sweet welfare system had anything to do with targeting that specific country?

They can't just go wherever they want. Some of the original refugees went to Sweden and so these just later joined them. It is up to the country to have them there, not up to the Palestinians.

Imagine yourself in such a situation - you are forced to go to a country with a totally different language, different culture, and you have NOTHING, so you are at the whim of that society.

Edited November 7, 2011 by Golden Gate

[Danno 1,228]

They can't just go wherever they want. Some of the original refugees went to Sweden and so these just later joined them. It is up to the country to have them there, not up to the Palestinians.

Imagine yourself in such a situation - you are forced to go to a country with a totally different language, different culture, and you have NOTHING, so you are at the whim of that society.

In this country we call them immigrants, before that they were pioneers.

[Golden Gate 530]

In this country we call them immigrants, before that they were pioneers.

Right, Danno. I believe those people came here voluntarily, not forced out of their homes.

[Boiler 46,003]

Bearing in mind far more Jews were forced out of Muslim countries, what have they done to show by example the right of return?

[Danno 1,228]

Bearing in mind far more Jews were forced out of Muslim countries, what have they done to show by example the right of return?

You might or might not be right, but what kinda logic justifies a wrong done today between two living people to unknown people (perhaps distant relatives) from the past?

With this type of reasoning, you could justify nearly anything by claiming your people took from mine, your people killed mine

your ancestors raped or enslaved mine so now it's my turn for payback.

This is the very reason I am against "most" affirmative action programs, it so often makes an innocent person pay for the wrong of another...and often times the benefiting party may not have even had a family history in which any wrong was done to them.

[sandinista! 1,816]

Bearing in mind far more Jews were forced out of Muslim countries, what have they done to show by example the right of return?

A) what do random "Muslim countries" have to do with Palestinians?

B) source for your numbers?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Bearing in mind far more Jews were forced out of Muslim countries, what have they done to show by example the right of return?

I'd appreciate it if you would supply objective support for this claim. I understand that it is made often, but then, so is the claim that Palestine was a deserted place when the Jews returned to it; that the Arab residents left on their own; that the land was bought properly and not stolen, etc.

I'm not saying that none of them were ever forced out, but, since they had a welcoming place to go - Israel - and property was being taken from Native non-Jewish families, like mine, to make a place for immigrant Jews, what is the basis for maintaining that they were forced out rather than ready and willing to move to Israel in the wake of its statehood?

[luckytxn 2,265]

A) what do random "Muslim countries" have to do with Palestinians?

B) source for your numbers?

I would like to a reliable source for these numbers. Have heard this often but never verified. Easy to say stuff but source link would be nice.

[Boiler 46,003]

Nobody else has supplied reliable sic sources, so why should I have to?

Anyway the top hit on google:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_countries

[mawilson 2,133]

Nobody else has supplied reliable sic sources, so why should I have to?

Anyway the top hit on google:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_countries

I posted this link before, but it was immediately dismissed by the Muslim peanut gallery as being "Zionist" (as apparently all Wikipedia articles are).