Apartheid and the occupation of Palestine

[Danno 1,228]

There is no democracy in America, why hold the Middle East to a standard we can't even meet?

Democracy in the broad term I suppose means all citizens have the opportunity to vote with equal representation, how id the USA not functioning in this way?

I suspect democracy will be the undoing of many western nations, as the growing number of people benefiting from government funds are out voting those who provide those funds.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Democracy in the broad term I suppose means all citizens have the opportunity to vote with equal representation, how id the USA not functioning in this way?

I suspect democracy will be the undoing of many western nations, as the growing number of people benefiting from government funds are out voting those who provide those funds.

Not everyone has equal representation.

[mawilson 2,133]

Democracy in the broad term I suppose means all citizens have the opportunity to vote with equal representation, how id the USA not functioning in this way?

All Israeli citizens, Jews and Arabs alike, have the opportunity to vote.

Israeli Arabs have representation in the Knesset. One of Israel's Supreme Court judges is a Palestinian Arab.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

All Israeli citizens, Jews and Arabs alike, have the opportunity to vote.

Israeli Arabs have representation in the Knesset. One of Israel's Supreme Court judges is a Palestinian Arab.

Democracy is generally defined as a form of government in which all adult citizens have an equal say in the decisions that affect their lives. Ideally, this includes equal (and more or less direct) participation in the proposal, development and passage of legislation into law. It can also encompass social, economic and cultural conditions that enable the free and equal practice of political self-determination.

This is certainly not true for Israeli Arabs, despite the window dressing. It's not even true for all Jews in Israel.

Edited November 6, 2011 by Sofiyya

[Sofiyya 1,687]

This is a depiction of Israel's flag.

As you may note, it depicts the Jewish Star of David on a white background. The design was created for the Zionist Movement in 1891. The basic design recalls the Tallit, the Jewish prayer shawl, which is white with blue stripes.

This is not a flag that represents the ethnic and religious diversity of a democracy that values all of its people. I doubt that atheist, non-Jewish Israelis are comfortable pledging allegiance to a flag that represents a religion not their own as a representation of their country, but we don't have a say in that.

The national anthem is a song that also demonstrates the ethnocentrism of the "Jewish state", as it wishes to be known. I know you would enjoy singing:

"In the Jewish heart, a Jewish spirit still sings, And the eyes look east toward Zion. Our hope is not lost, our hope of two thousand years, to be a free nation in our land, in the land of Zion and Jerusalem."

Native Muslims and Arabs, whose land was stolen from them and given to immigrant Jews, are expected to sing this anthem. It is not a democratic anthem, representing the diversity that Israel loves to claim, but one that celebrates theft and exclusion, as do many of the daily effects of policy and practices in the lives of those who do not have actual equal representation in their own country.

Has any Jew on VJ who did not marry a Jew ever explain to you why they are not allowed to marry a non-Jew in Israel? Or, if they do marry in Israel, they must be cleared to present themselves as a person with no religion. Or they can marry a Jew, but only in an Orthodox ceremony. What I'm saying is that Jews like scandal, for example, could not marry their spouses in Israel because Israel doesn't allow them the kind of freedom of religion that a true democracy allows. And, if freedom of religion isn't allowed to all Jews, can you imagine what the rest of us get?

Edited November 6, 2011 by Sofiyya

[mawilson 2,133]

This is certainly not true for Israeli Arabs, despite the window dressing. It's not even true for all Jews in Israel.

It's not true for all Americans in America either. 500,000 people in Wyoming and 700,000 in Alaska get the same representation in the US Senate as 37 million Californians, 25 million Texans and 19 million New Yorkers. Do Alaskans and New Yorkers have "equal participation in the proposal, development and passage of legislation into law"? I don't think so.

[Karee 4,191]

It's not true for all Americans in America either. 500,000 people in Wyoming and 700,000 in Alaska get the same representation in the US Senate as 37 million Californians, 25 million Texans and 19 million New Yorkers. Do Alaskans and New Yorkers have "equal participation in the proposal, development and passage of legislation into law"? I don't think so.

I think passage of legislation into law also requires a vote in the house. House districts are represented equally based on population.

[mawilson 2,133]

I think passage of legislation into law also requires a vote in the house. House districts are represented equally based on population.

Sure, but New Yorkers and Alaskans don't get *equal* representation. A lot of good bills originate in the House only to be killed in the Senate by idiots from backwards states.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

It's not true for all Americans in America either. 500,000 people in Wyoming and 700,000 in Alaska get the same representation in the US Senate as 37 million Californians, 25 million Texans and 19 million New Yorkers. Do Alaskans and New Yorkers have "equal participation in the proposal, development and passage of legislation into law"? I don't think so.

My post was in reference to representation in Israel, not the US. In Israel, it does depend on what you are as to how well you're represented. In the US, I can move if I want more clout than I get in DC or Alaska, but I'm not politically unequal for who I am. In Israel, inequality is institutionalized because the government intends to make sure than the primary power remains with Jewish citizens, especially Orthodox Jews. If you condone that, then Israel is the place for you to go to be politically unequal.

[Ban Hammer 13,502]

Yet when "the Chosen People" point to the genocide of the Third Reich, it might be helpful to hold a mirror in front of them, thus exposing their deliberate attempt not only to silent but to outright eradicate the Palestinians who have any right to be there, in contrast to the occupiers. Had the Israeli Jews shown respect to people of other ethnic backgrounds and faiths, none of this would be an issue today. But since they have no tolerance for anything that would prevent the Jewish State to be clean of Goy, it's only fair to put this out in the open and let the world--outside their buddies in high places in the U.S.--decide. One needs to look no further than to the latest flotilla incidents and the murder of so many innocent people, to expose the mindset prevalent here. It's as appalling and dangerous as any form of religious extremism. Extremist Christians are responsible for the crimes of the inquisition, extremist Muslims are responsible for terrorist attacks, and extremist Jews are responsible for the genocide on the Arab peoples. No extremist group should be in a position of controlling the government of a country, and if there is one way to stop the ongoing massakers of the Middle East, it's by taking the governmental powers of Israel out of the hands of those fundament Jews and creating a democracy that will give all people who live there an equal representation and vote.

post edited to remove a portion that is a personal attack on another vj member.

another post removed due to quoting an edited post and for containing content making it personal with another vj member.

[Danno 1,228]

I think passage of legislation into law also requires a vote in the house. House districts are represented equally based on population.

The intention of a senate was to give fair representation of States... not people.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Governments tend to protect what they value. It is often commented on that Muslim countries don't allow freedom of speech regarding criticism of Islam. However, it is not often noted that Israel limits freedom of speech regarding the Holocaust.

Denial Of Holocaust -Prohibition- Law- 5746-1986

Definitions 1. In this Law, "crime against the Jewish people" and "crime against humanity" have the same respective meanings as in the "Nazis and Nazi Collaborators Law, 5710-1950[1].

Prohibition of Denial of Holocaust 2. A person who, in writing or by word of mouth, publishes any statement denying or diminishing the proportions of acts committed in the period of the Nazi regime, which are crimes against the Jewish people or crimes against humanity, with intent to defend the perpetrators of those acts or to express sympathy or identification with them, shall be liable to imprisonment for a term of five years.

Prohibition of publication of expression for sympathy for Nazi crimes 3. A person who, in writing or by word of mouth, publishes any statement expressing praise or sympathy for or identification with acts done in the period of the Nazi regime, which are crimes against the Jewish people or crimes against humanity, shall be liable to imprisonment for a term of five years.

Permitted publication 4. The publication of a correct and fair report of a publication prohibited by this Law shall not be regarded as an offence thereunder so long as it is not made with intent to express sympathy or identification with the perpetrators of crimes against the Jewish people or against humanity.

Filing of charge 5. An indictment for offences under this Law shall only be filed by or with the consent of the Attorney-General.

SHIMON PERES - Prime Minister

YITZCHAK MODAI - Minister of Justice

CHAIM HERZOG - President of the State

* Passed by the Knesset on the lst Tammuz, 5746 (8th July, 1986) and published in Sefer Ha-Chukkim No. 1187 of the 9th Tammuz, 5746 (16th July, 1986), p. 196; the Bill and an Explanatory Note were published in Hatzaot Chok No. 1743 of 5745, p. 250.

[1] Sefer Ha-Chukkim of 5710, p. 28 1,LSI vol. IV, p. 154.203 56) (No. 56)

[Sofiyya 1,687]

The Citizenship And Entry Into Israel Law (Temporary Provision) 5763 - 2003

Definitions

1. In this law -

"area" - any one of the following: Judea and Samaria, and the Gaza Strip;

"Citizenship Law" - The Citizenship Law, 5712 - 1952;

"Entry into Israel Law" - Entry into Israel Law, 5712 - 1952;

"Area Commander" - the commander of the Israel Defense Forces in the area;

"inhabitant of an area" - including anyone residing in the area, even though he is not registered in the population register of the area, and excluding the inhabitant of an Israeli settlement in the area.

Limitation of citizenship and stay in Israel

2. During the period in which this law shall remain in force, despite what is said in any legal provision, including article 7 of the Citizenship Law, the Minister of the Interior shall not grant the inhabitant of an area citizenship on the basis of the Citizenship law, and shall not give him a license to reside in Israel on the basis of the Entry into Israel Law, and the Area Commander shall not grant a said inhabitant, a permit to stay in Israel, on the basis with the security legislation in the area.

Reservations

3. Despite the instructions of article 2 -

(1) The Minister of the Interior, or the Area Commander, as the case may be, is entitled to grant an inhabitant of an area a license to reside in Israel, or a permit to stay in Israel, for a fixed period, for the purpose of work, or in order to receive medical treatment, and also for some other temporary purpose - for a cumulative period of no more than six months, as well as a license to reside in Israel, or a permit to stay in Israel in order to prevent the separation of a child, aged up to 12, from its parent who is staying in Israel legally;

(2) The Minister of the Interior is entitled to grant citizenship, or provide a license to reside in Israel, to an inhabitant of an area, if he is convinced that he identifies with the State of Israel and its goals, and that he or a member of his family performed a significant act to promote the security, economy or some other important matter of the State, or that the granting of citizenship or provision of the license to reside in Israel, are of special interest to the State; In this paragraph, "member of family" - spouse, parent, child.

Transition regulations

4. Despite the instructions of this law -

(1) The Minister of the Interior or the Area Commander, as the case may be, is entitled to prolong the validity of a license to reside in Israel, or of a permit to stay in Israel, that were in the possession of the inhabitant of an area, on the eve of this law going into force;

(2) The Area Commander is entitled to grant a permit for a temporary stay in Israel to an inhabitant of an area, who applied for citizenship, in accordance with the Citizenship Law, or made a request for a license to reside in Israel, in accordance with the Entry into Israel Law, before Sunday, Sivan 1, 5862 (May 12, 2002), and in whose case a decision was not yet taken on the day that this law went into force, as long as the said inhabitant shall not be granted, on the basis of the instructions of this paragraph, citizenship in accordance with the Citizenship Law, and shall not be given a license to stay temporarily, or to stay permanently, in accordance with the Entry into Israel Law.

Validity

5. This law shall remain in force until the end of a year from the day on which it is published, but the Government is entitled, with the approval of the Knesset, to prolong its validity by order, from time to time, for a period that shall not exceed one year on each occasion.

__________________________________

Published 00:00 27.06.08Latest update 00:00 27.06.08

Citizenship law makes Israel an apartheid state

We do not have to identify the characteristics of South African apartheid in the civil rights discrimination in Israel in order to call Israel an apartheid state. It is best that we not try to evade the truth: The Citizenship Law's existence turns Israel into an apartheid state.

By Amos Schocken

The government's decision last week to extend the validity of the Citizenship Law (Temporary Order), for another year, is evidence that the legal barriers preventing severe discrimination against Israel's Arab citizens and harm to their civil rights have been removed.

This extension is the eighth since the law was first passed in 2003, and it shows just how naive Justice Edmond Levy's position was when he refused to join in the 2006 decision by five judges from the High Court of Justice, who stated that the law was unconstitutional, that it contravened the Basic Law on Human Dignity and Freedom, and that it must be removed from the law books. Levy explained his refusal by saying that he saw no need to intervene because only two months remained until the law expired. However, at the end of the two months, the law was extended by a year, and now they want to extend it for yet another year.

Had Levy known that the law's limited validity was nothing but a deception aimed at preparing a discriminatory and unconstitutional law, there is no doubt he would have joined the five justices' majority opinion that it was unconstitutional and should be removed. We must hope that the High Court of Justice, when it rules on the new petition submitted against the law after it was extended in 2006, will take into account that the term "temporary provision," which both the government and Knesset take pains to stress, is a deception. We are talking about, in effect, a permanent law.

The law stipulates that the interior minister does not have the authority to approve residence in Israel for a resident of Judea and Samaria (unless, of course, they are Jews - that is, settlers). This is so even regarding family reunions, meaning marriage, when it comes to Palestinian spouses who are younger than 35 (for men) or 25 (for women). In effect, the law prevents young Israeli citizens from marrying the spouse of their choice and living with this spouse in Israel, if the spouse is a Palestinian from Judea and Samaria.

It is obvious that this has barely any effect on the right of young Israeli Jews to live in their country with the spouse of their choice, because there are hardly any marriages between Israeli Jews and Palestinians from Judea and Samaria. On the other hand, these Palestinians constitute Israeli Arabs' natural pool for choosing a spouse. For this reason, the law severely discriminates when comparing the rights of young Israeli Jewish citizens and young Israeli Arab citizens.

When the law was first passed in 2003, supposedly as a temporary one-year measure, it was accompanied by security reasoning - the risk of implanting terrorists in Israel via marriage. The reasoning was faulty even at that time: Every Palestinian who wishes to enter Israel must be addressed individually. It is the Shin Bet security service's task to do this and thus carry out its mission - protecting the security of Israel's citizens such that the country remains democratic, with equal rights for all. However, as the years go by, it becomes clear that the security argument and the term "temporary measure" are merely a deception aimed at "koshering" discriminatory legislation for demographic reasons.

The claim that there are characteristics of an apartheid state in Israel is widely heard in the Western world. The word apartheid is catchy and understood in many parts of the world, which makes it useful to send a message that we resent and which we claim has no connection with reality in Israel. However, we do not need to replicate exactly the characteristics of South African apartheid within discriminatory practices in civil rights in Israel in order to call Israel an apartheid state. The amendment to the Citizenship Law is exactly such a practice, and it is best that we not try to evade the truth: Its existence in our law books turns Israel into an apartheid state.

The government decided to add the Gaza Strip to the list of countries for which the interior minister does not have the prerogative to approve residence in Israel on the grounds of family reunions, regardless of age. Both the list and the new addition are superfluous and harmful. Since Hamas gained control, no one enters or leaves Gaza anyway, and the new restriction harms couples' cases from the time when there was passage between Israel and Gaza. There is no need for this affront.

This story is by:

Amos Schocken (publisher of the Israeli daily Ha'aretz)

[luckytxn 2,265]

The Citizenship And Entry Into Israel Law (Temporary Provision) 5763 - 2003

Definitions

1. In this law -

"area" - any one of the following: Judea and Samaria, and the Gaza Strip;

"Citizenship Law" - The Citizenship Law, 5712 - 1952;

"Entry into Israel Law" - Entry into Israel Law, 5712 - 1952;

"Area Commander" - the commander of the Israel Defense Forces in the area;

"inhabitant of an area" - including anyone residing in the area, even though he is not registered in the population register of the area, and excluding the inhabitant of an Israeli settlement in the area.

Limitation of citizenship and stay in Israel

2. During the period in which this law shall remain in force, despite what is said in any legal provision, including article 7 of the Citizenship Law, the Minister of the Interior shall not grant the inhabitant of an area citizenship on the basis of the Citizenship law, and shall not give him a license to reside in Israel on the basis of the Entry into Israel Law, and the Area Commander shall not grant a said inhabitant, a permit to stay in Israel, on the basis with the security legislation in the area.

Reservations

3. Despite the instructions of article 2 -

(1) The Minister of the Interior, or the Area Commander, as the case may be, is entitled to grant an inhabitant of an area a license to reside in Israel, or a permit to stay in Israel, for a fixed period, for the purpose of work, or in order to receive medical treatment, and also for some other temporary purpose - for a cumulative period of no more than six months, as well as a license to reside in Israel, or a permit to stay in Israel in order to prevent the separation of a child, aged up to 12, from its parent who is staying in Israel legally;

(2) The Minister of the Interior is entitled to grant citizenship, or provide a license to reside in Israel, to an inhabitant of an area, if he is convinced that he identifies with the State of Israel and its goals, and that he or a member of his family performed a significant act to promote the security, economy or some other important matter of the State, or that the granting of citizenship or provision of the license to reside in Israel, are of special interest to the State; In this paragraph, "member of family" - spouse, parent, child.

Transition regulations

4. Despite the instructions of this law -

(1) The Minister of the Interior or the Area Commander, as the case may be, is entitled to prolong the validity of a license to reside in Israel, or of a permit to stay in Israel, that were in the possession of the inhabitant of an area, on the eve of this law going into force;

(2) The Area Commander is entitled to grant a permit for a temporary stay in Israel to an inhabitant of an area, who applied for citizenship, in accordance with the Citizenship Law, or made a request for a license to reside in Israel, in accordance with the Entry into Israel Law, before Sunday, Sivan 1, 5862 (May 12, 2002), and in whose case a decision was not yet taken on the day that this law went into force, as long as the said inhabitant shall not be granted, on the basis of the instructions of this paragraph, citizenship in accordance with the Citizenship Law, and shall not be given a license to stay temporarily, or to stay permanently, in accordance with the Entry into Israel Law.

Validity

5. This law shall remain in force until the end of a year from the day on which it is published, but the Government is entitled, with the approval of the Knesset, to prolong its validity by order, from time to time, for a period that shall not exceed one year on each occasion.

__________________________________

Published 00:00 27.06.08Latest update 00:00 27.06.08

Citizenship law makes Israel an apartheid state

We do not have to identify the characteristics of South African apartheid in the civil rights discrimination in Israel in order to call Israel an apartheid state. It is best that we not try to evade the truth: The Citizenship Law's existence turns Israel into an apartheid state.

By Amos Schocken

The government's decision last week to extend the validity of the Citizenship Law (Temporary Order), for another year, is evidence that the legal barriers preventing severe discrimination against Israel's Arab citizens and harm to their civil rights have been removed.

This extension is the eighth since the law was first passed in 2003, and it shows just how naive Justice Edmond Levy's position was when he refused to join in the 2006 decision by five judges from the High Court of Justice, who stated that the law was unconstitutional, that it contravened the Basic Law on Human Dignity and Freedom, and that it must be removed from the law books. Levy explained his refusal by saying that he saw no need to intervene because only two months remained until the law expired. However, at the end of the two months, the law was extended by a year, and now they want to extend it for yet another year.

Had Levy known that the law's limited validity was nothing but a deception aimed at preparing a discriminatory and unconstitutional law, there is no doubt he would have joined the five justices' majority opinion that it was unconstitutional and should be removed. We must hope that the High Court of Justice, when it rules on the new petition submitted against the law after it was extended in 2006, will take into account that the term "temporary provision," which both the government and Knesset take pains to stress, is a deception. We are talking about, in effect, a permanent law.

The law stipulates that the interior minister does not have the authority to approve residence in Israel for a resident of Judea and Samaria (unless, of course, they are Jews - that is, settlers). This is so even regarding family reunions, meaning marriage, when it comes to Palestinian spouses who are younger than 35 (for men) or 25 (for women). In effect, the law prevents young Israeli citizens from marrying the spouse of their choice and living with this spouse in Israel, if the spouse is a Palestinian from Judea and Samaria.

It is obvious that this has barely any effect on the right of young Israeli Jews to live in their country with the spouse of their choice, because there are hardly any marriages between Israeli Jews and Palestinians from Judea and Samaria. On the other hand, these Palestinians constitute Israeli Arabs' natural pool for choosing a spouse. For this reason, the law severely discriminates when comparing the rights of young Israeli Jewish citizens and young Israeli Arab citizens.

When the law was first passed in 2003, supposedly as a temporary one-year measure, it was accompanied by security reasoning - the risk of implanting terrorists in Israel via marriage. The reasoning was faulty even at that time: Every Palestinian who wishes to enter Israel must be addressed individually. It is the Shin Bet security service's task to do this and thus carry out its mission - protecting the security of Israel's citizens such that the country remains democratic, with equal rights for all. However, as the years go by, it becomes clear that the security argument and the term "temporary measure" are merely a deception aimed at "koshering" discriminatory legislation for demographic reasons.

The claim that there are characteristics of an apartheid state in Israel is widely heard in the Western world. The word apartheid is catchy and understood in many parts of the world, which makes it useful to send a message that we resent and which we claim has no connection with reality in Israel. However, we do not need to replicate exactly the characteristics of South African apartheid within discriminatory practices in civil rights in Israel in order to call Israel an apartheid state. The amendment to the Citizenship Law is exactly such a practice, and it is best that we not try to evade the truth: Its existence in our law books turns Israel into an apartheid state.

The government decided to add the Gaza Strip to the list of countries for which the interior minister does not have the prerogative to approve residence in Israel on the grounds of family reunions, regardless of age. Both the list and the new addition are superfluous and harmful. Since Hamas gained control, no one enters or leaves Gaza anyway, and the new restriction harms couples' cases from the time when there was passage between Israel and Gaza. There is no need for this affront.

This story is by:

Amos Schocken (publisher of the Israeli daily Ha'aretz)

Another nice read.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Another nice read.

Thanks. I noticed that this thread was getting off-topic, and I assume it's because there isn't much actual knowledge of the laws and practices that inspire the apartheid label that dogs Israel. Despite WoM's prolonged efforts to educate, it seems that there is always room for more information.