VJ member about child's death in Vietnam

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

I agree it is a very sad thing. But the consulate is not at fault here.

It's quite clear to me. The requirements necessary to obtain a visa, both times, were not met. That is not the fault of the consulate.

Do you realize how applicants for visas are run over by CO's in Vietnam?

[cdneh 3,112]

Do you realize how applicants for visas are run over by CO's in Vietnam?

Do you? Did you go through there?

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Do you? Did you go through there?

I do. The consulate in Saigon ranks among the most difficult in the world to get a fiancee or spousal visa. It's not worse than Lagos, Nigeria, but it's definitely in the top five. Consular officers routinely deny visas for lack of evidence when the beneficiary had the evidence at the interview and offered to provide it, but the consular officer refused to accept it. They issue blue slips requesting evidence for which there is no statutory basis. For example, a list of all of the beneficiary's relatives who are living in the United States, along with proof of their current address, proof of their immigration status, and a copy of their identification. They also like to demand proof of where the petitioner or beneficiary's ex-spouse lives.

They deny visas if the beneficiary doesn't know the names of everyone the petitioner works with, or the birth dates of everyone in the petitioner's family, or can't describe the town where the petitioner lives, or how many bedrooms the petitioner's home has. Remember that at this point the beneficiary has never met any of these people, nor ever been to the US nor ever seen the petitioner's home.

They tell fiancee visa applicants not to make any plans until the visa has been issued, and then deny the visa because they don't know the exact date and location where they will be married after arriving in the US.

They deny visas because they claim that the photos submitted as evidence indicate that the petitioner spent only a few days in Vietnam, even though they submitted evidence proving they spent weeks there - this claim is based on the petitioner appearing to have worn the same clothes in multiple photos. How many shirts do you pack for a three week holiday? Is it enough to wear a different shirt every day? If you pack five shirts then they'll conclude you only visited for five days.

They deny the visa if they think you got engaged too soon after meeting face-to-face. They deny the visa if you didn't have a traditional formal engagement ceremony and party, or if the ceremony and party were too soon after meeting, or if the ceremony and party didn't involve enough people (hundreds are expected). If the petitioner is of Vietnamese descent then they'll deny the visa if the petitioner's family didn't travel to Vietnam for the ceremony and party.

They'll deny the visa if the petitioner was introduced to the beneficiary by a family member of the beneficiary's.

There's actually sound reasoning for most of these because they can, in some circumstances, be indicators of potential visa fraud. However, unless you know all of these things before visiting the first time then it's easy to unknowingly create red flags in your case, and it's difficult to fix them after you've filed the petition.

[cdneh 3,112]

I understand that it is a high fraud country, like many represented here are. Was our OP unversed in all these areas? Seems that you ought to post that list anytime anyone petitions someone from Vietnam and comes here for advice. Perhaps that would go a long way towards preventing a repeat of like difficulties in future.

[Boiler 45,467]

Just reading the general news I would have thought it was pretty obvious.

[newlyweds2010 208]

I do. The consulate in Saigon ranks among the most difficult in the world to get a fiancee or spousal visa. It's not worse than Lagos, Nigeria, but it's definitely in the top five. Consular officers routinely deny visas for lack of evidence when the beneficiary had the evidence at the interview and offered to provide it, but the consular officer refused to accept it. They issue blue slips requesting evidence for which there is no statutory basis. For example, a list of all of the beneficiary's relatives who are living in the United States, along with proof of their current address, proof of their immigration status, and a copy of their identification. They also like to demand proof of where the petitioner or beneficiary's ex-spouse lives.

They deny visas if the beneficiary doesn't know the names of everyone the petitioner works with, or the birth dates of everyone in the petitioner's family, or can't describe the town where the petitioner lives, or how many bedrooms the petitioner's home has. Remember that at this point the beneficiary has never met any of these people, nor ever been to the US nor ever seen the petitioner's home.

They tell fiancee visa applicants not to make any plans until the visa has been issued, and then deny the visa because they don't know the exact date and location where they will be married after arriving in the US.

They deny visas because they claim that the photos submitted as evidence indicate that the petitioner spent only a few days in Vietnam, even though they submitted evidence proving they spent weeks there - this claim is based on the petitioner appearing to have worn the same clothes in multiple photos. How many shirts do you pack for a three week holiday? Is it enough to wear a different shirt every day? If you pack five shirts then they'll conclude you only visited for five days.

They deny the visa if they think you got engaged too soon after meeting face-to-face. They deny the visa if you didn't have a traditional formal engagement ceremony and party, or if the ceremony and party were too soon after meeting, or if the ceremony and party didn't involve enough people (hundreds are expected). If the petitioner is of Vietnamese descent then they'll deny the visa if the petitioner's family didn't travel to Vietnam for the ceremony and party.

They'll deny the visa if the petitioner was introduced to the beneficiary by a family member of the beneficiary's.

There's actually sound reasoning for most of these because they can, in some circumstances, be indicators of potential visa fraud. However, unless you know all of these things before visiting the first time then it's easy to unknowingly create red flags in your case, and it's difficult to fix them after you've filed the petition.

and in this mess, you are surprised that a baby born in Vietnam to a single mother didn't get her US passport right away to fly to the land of the free?

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

I understand that it is a high fraud country, like many represented here are. Was our OP unversed in all these areas? Seems that you ought to post that list anytime anyone petitions someone from Vietnam and comes here for advice. Perhaps that would go a long way towards preventing a repeat of like difficulties in future.

Not everyone is fortunate enough to find a site like VJ before sending in their petition, but as you can see from Clay's profile, he's been a member here for quite a while. He just happened to be one of the very unfortunate ones to have been put through the wringer by the consulate.

and in this mess, you are surprised that a baby born in Vietnam to a single mother didn't get her US passport right away to fly to the land of the free?

A friend of mine got the CRBA for his daughter at the consulate in Saigon last year. In fact, I put a lot of pressure on him to reschedule his fiancee's visa interview because she was due to deliver less than two weeks after the interview was scheduled. It took some effort, but he finally got his fiancee to agree to having the interview rescheduled. The baby ended up being born the day of the original interview appointment.

As expected, they issued a blue slip for the CRBA at her visa interview.

Anyway, he made an appointment with the consulate to submit the CRBA application and supporting documents. He and his fiancee both went to the appointment together. The CRBA was approved and a passport was issued without a DNA test in less than four weeks. When his fiancee returned to the consulate to pick up the baby's passport they approved her visa, as well.

They don't subject everyone to the sort of scrutiny and bureaucratic delay that the Clay endured. I'm not saying that he was selected at random for this. I'm saying that any suspicions they had about his relationship were not relevant to approving the CRBA. The only valid reason for postponing the CRBA is if they have doubts about the parentage of the child. The consulate in Saigon doesn't always treat it this way. It's policy not to issue a visa to the parent if a child has a claim to US citizenship that hasn't been processed yet, and the consulate in Saigon often delays the CRBA so that they don't have to make a decision on the visa while they conduct their investigation of the relationship. If he can show that the consulate delayed processing the CRBA without justification then he's got grounds for a civil suit.

And going back to my first post in this thread, I don't believe the consulate is at fault for the death of his daughter. If there had been no consulate, no visa process, and no CRBA, then his daughter would have died anyway. But it's not necessary in a civil suit to prove that someone is 100% responsible for your injury in order to prevail. It's only necessary to prove that their action or inaction more likely than not contributed to the injury occurring, even if their responsibility amounts to only 1%. If I was an attorney handling his case then the questions I would be asking are, first, is there any reasonable alternative to the way that the consulate handled his case (by 'reasonable', I mean an alternative that they've used in other CRBA cases)? The answer is yes. Second, is there a possibility that his injury might not have occurred if the consulate had handled the case in the alternative manner? Again, the answer is yes.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

I just want to update the annals of VJ that the child is not dead, is not the OP's, and that the OP was scammed.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/494273-how-can-i-have-wife-removed-for-marriage-fraud/

I remember this case, now after this update, I am really jaded.