Is US getting desperate for sales of F-35 thunderpig?

[Saddle Bronc 124]

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/us-offers-india-partnership-in-developing-most-advanced-fighter-craft/869657/

(given that India rejected US-built aircraft in favour of Typhoon or Rafale--and will probably be making the final decision "soon" to take the Typhoon)...

[MyLittlePony 340]

No other military jets in the world cant touch the USA fighter planes.

[ScramJet 35]

By comparison F-35 is more advanced fighter than F-22 is, as shown on paper and many conducted simulations. Prior to F35 development F22 was the most advanced fighter jet in the world, it doesn't make a lot of sense to start developing new fighter in such short time frame, and especially to start developing that new fighter with multiple world partners. Didn't it make more sense to start marketing F22 to other countries thus offsetting production cost of the F35 (if financial constraints are the reason F35 is being offered to other countries in the first place)?

[Pooky 3,828]

By comparison F-35 is more advanced fighter than F-22 is, as shown on paper and many conducted simulations. Prior to F35 development F22 was the most advanced fighter jet in the world, it doesn't make a lot of sense to start developing new fighter in such short time frame, and especially to start developing that new fighter with multiple world partners. Didn't it make more sense to start marketing F22 to other countries thus offsetting production cost of the F35 (if financial constraints are the reason F35 is being offered to other countries in the first place)?

By comparison, the F-35 Thunderpig does not have the stealth characteristics of the F-22, because they went cheap. The Thunderpig doesn't meet its USAF performance requirements for payload and range. The powerplant has issues, as does the airframe. As an air-to-air asset, the Thunderpig won't match a dedicated dogfighter like the Typhoon, as it doesn't have the manoeuvrability, or the load-out. As an air-to-surface asset, a user will need to hang weapons externally to afford it an real carrying capability, which will destroy the limited stealth qualities it does possess. The Thunderpig is a pig.

Marketing the F-35 to new international customers now is a result of the DoD acquisition cuts, which are wreaking havoc with LockMart's ambition to ramp up to one new plane a day. Right now the LRIP contracts for the next 3 years have been slashed almost in half, so LockMart need to do something to salvage their new baby, and India is a possible customer right now. But the MMRCA tender is not the right deal for the Thunderpig. The next Indian AF acquisition, the MRA, fits the Thunderpig better, but the timing is wrong.

As for the F-22, both Australia and Japan wanted it, but export is prohibited by an act of Congress. Oh, and the oxygen system on board the Raptor is suspected in one fatal crash and several other incidents. Right now, the USAF has only 44 operational and flying. Best in the world? Maybe ... when it works.

[scandal 951]

LockMart

I've never heard Lockheed-Martin referred to that way before.

Is that like Walmart for your everyday military shopping needs?

[Pooky 3,828]

I've never heard Lockheed-Martin referred to that way before.

Is that like Walmart for your everyday military shopping needs?

You're evidently not a plane freak, then

And yes, LockMart, especially the Lochkheed part, has a reputation for screwing customers going back to the '50's & 60's. How else do you explain the number of F-104 Starfighters Widowmakers sold to NATO air forces?

[scandal 951]

You're evidently not a plane freak, then

And yes, LockMart, especially the Lochkheed part, has a reputation for screwing customers going back to the '50's & 60's. How else do you explain the number of F-104 Starfighters Widowmakers sold to NATO air forces?

No, I'm not a military tech buff at all. I know my limitations

[MyLittlePony 340]

The F-35 is looking kinda cheap they should do an new version of the F-16 one of the best.

[Pooky 3,828]

The F-35 is looking kinda cheap they should do an new version of the F-16 one of the best.

The F-16 is an almost 40 year-old design. It's behind the curve set by the Rafale, the Typhoon and the Gripen. To bring it up to date, LockMart (yes, them again) need to do some serious work to the airframe, and they have neither the time or the money. Mind you, it is a bit cheaper than the competition (except the Gripen).

[웃 910]

The F-16 is an almost 40 year-old design. It's behind the curve set by the Rafale, the Typhoon and the Gripen. To bring it up to date, LockMart (yes, them again) need to do some serious work to the airframe, and they have neither the time or the money. Mind you, it is a bit cheaper than the competition (except the Gripen).

What do you think of the Eurofighter Typhoon?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYXDSlsTKWc&feature=watch_response

[Saddle Bronc 124]

What do you think of the Eurofighter Typhoon?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYXDSlsTKWc&feature=watch_response

Between the two contenders for the MMRCA contract (the other is the Dassault Rafale), it's the one that will probably win (because one of its components is Italian, which "queen" Sonia will undoubtedly favour).

(edit: Sosuke thinks Rafale will win, due to other factors--but I can't see them outweighing the unofficious biggie I described above)

Edited November 3, 2011 by Saddle Bronc

[MyLittlePony 340]

The F-16 is an almost 40 year-old design. It's behind the curve set by the Rafale, the Typhoon and the Gripen. To bring it up to date, LockMart (yes, them again) need to do some serious work to the airframe, and they have neither the time or the money. Mind you, it is a bit cheaper than the competition (except the Gripen).

Still the best looking plane though if they can i bet the plane can last another 20 years.

[luckytxn 2,265]

By comparison, the F-35 Thunderpig does not have the stealth characteristics of the F-22, because they went cheap. The Thunderpig doesn't meet its USAF performance requirements for payload and range. The powerplant has issues, as does the airframe. As an air-to-air asset, the Thunderpig won't match a dedicated dogfighter like the Typhoon, as it doesn't have the manoeuvrability, or the load-out. As an air-to-surface asset, a user will need to hang weapons externally to afford it an real carrying capability, which will destroy the limited stealth qualities it does possess. The Thunderpig is a pig.

Marketing the F-35 to new international customers now is a result of the DoD acquisition cuts, which are wreaking havoc with LockMart's ambition to ramp up to one new plane a day. Right now the LRIP contracts for the next 3 years have been slashed almost in half, so LockMart need to do something to salvage their new baby, and India is a possible customer right now. But the MMRCA tender is not the right deal for the Thunderpig. The next Indian AF acquisition, the MRA, fits the Thunderpig better, but the timing is wrong.

As for the F-22, both Australia and Japan wanted it, but export is prohibited by an act of Congress. Oh, and the oxygen system on board the Raptor is suspected in one fatal crash and several other incidents. Right now, the USAF has only 44 operational and flying. Best in the world? Maybe ... when it works.

India needs to make a decision sooner rather than later and with the cost over runs and not even sure when full production can start kinda rules them out as how can they make a decision when they can't be assured of when they can take delivery of the F-35.

The F-22 was very superior and even had a high kill ratio against any other superior fighter in the world had. It was total air superiority when the F-22 was fielded against any other nations air force in the world. Japan and Australia asked and was even given an initial OK. You are right though and that is when the F-22 was working. They had the oxygen system problem fixed but its hours in maintenance for every hour of flight time was huge. Way more than any aircraft should have. I thought they should take the knowledge they gained for the next generation of aircraft and improve but they lessened it in my opinion. Makes no difference though as the U.S. has placed the bet on the F-35 and stopped funding and making the F-22. Also in my opinion when the radar cross section for the F-35 went from a golf ball to a beach ball should have told them they were going backwards. Also with the single engine makes the F-35 a non sale to many air forces.

U.S.A.F General Jumper who had flown the Raptor and the Typhoon was impressed with the Typhoon. He said it would be hard to say which was better as they each had its own points but that the Raptor was overall the better. Of course he had flown the Raptor many times and the Typhoon only a few times so the bias would be toward what he knew best.

[luckytxn 2,265]

Still the best looking plane though if they can i bet the plane can last another 20 years.

They can look good as they are getting blown out of the sky and the enemy takes air superiority.

[Saddle Bronc 124]

India needs to make a decision sooner rather than later and with the cost over runs and not even sure when full production can start kinda rules them out as how can they make a decision when they can't be assured of when they can take delivery of the F-35.

Actually, the decision has been partly made (when it got whittled down to two contenders)--and it appears that they will be going with the Typhoon.

The F-22 was very superior and even had a high kill ratio against any other superior fighter in the world had. It was total air superiority when the F-22 was fielded against any other nations air force in the world. Japan and Australia asked and was even given an initial OK. You are right though and that is when the F-22 was working. They had the oxygen system problem fixed but its hours in maintenance for every hour of flight time was huge. Way more than any aircraft should have. I thought they should take the knowledge they gained for the next generation of aircraft and improve but they lessened it in my opinion. Makes no difference though as the U.S. has placed the bet on the F-35 and stopped funding and making the F-22. Also in my opinion when the radar cross section for the F-35 went from a golf ball to a beach ball should have told them they were going backwards. Also with the single engine makes the F-35 a non sale to many air forces.

U.S.A.F General Jumper who had flown the Raptor and the Typhoon was impressed with the Typhoon. He said it would be hard to say which was better as they each had its own points but that the Raptor was overall the better. Of course he had flown the Raptor many times and the Typhoon only a few times so the bias would be toward what he knew best.

Still the best looking plane though if they can i bet the plane can last another 20 years.

Actualy, Tejas (the reason India DIDN't go for Gripen--too many parts in common with Tejas) looks way better.