Tragedy! Visa Denied!

[Palladin 18]

I am still puzzled on the exactly clause they cited for the visa denial.

There was only one visa denial sheet, in white, which says 221(g). There was no second sheet requesting any documents or indicate any 212 clause in the INA. 221(g) is a very generic clause that encapsulate a lot of things. So what exactly does it mean in our case? See the attached image.

[bobbyA 20]

I am still puzzled on the exactly clause they cited for the visa denial.

There was only one visa denial sheet, in white, which says 221(g). There was no second sheet requesting any documents or indicate any 212 clause in the INA. 221(g) is a very generic clause that encapsulate a lot of things. So what exactly does it mean in our case? See the attached image.

Anthony,

Is this the latest update from the consulate or is this what your wife got immediately after her interview?

It looks to me to be a pretty generic form letter clearly stating their decision and action to follow.

[pushbrk 12,881]

I am still puzzled on the exactly clause they cited for the visa denial.

There was only one visa denial sheet, in white, which says 221(g). There was no second sheet requesting any documents or indicate any 212 clause in the INA. 221(g) is a very generic clause that encapsulate a lot of things. So what exactly does it mean in our case? See the attached image.

It means what it says, exactly. The two key statements are that "based on....you do not have a bona fide relationship with the petitioner" and "we will now return the petition to USCIS..." This is a white sheet "hard" 221g denial. A blue sheet "soft" or "temporary" denial is where they request additional documents. This got covered in the first few posts of this thread.

[Darnell 8,478]

Agree - this is the 'hard denial' at GUZ IV.

[Palladin 18]

Anthony,

Is this the latest update from the consulate or is this what your wife got immediately after her interview?

It looks to me to be a pretty generic form letter clearly stating their decision and action to follow.

No, this is not the latest. This is the initial visa denial sheet my wife got. Just one sheet of paper, no mentioning of any 212 clause in INA, just one reference to 221(g) and one reference to the non-bina fide relationship thing. It did not ask for any supplemental documentation.

[Palladin 18]

Agree - this is the 'hard denial' at GUZ IV.

I would have thought that a "hard denial" would include some sort of reference to one of the 212 clause. But there is no reference to any 212 clause. It does NOT mention the most common seen 212(a)(6)©1 clause which says the applicant mis-represented material facts, a very serious accusation.

The precise wording of 221(g) of INA can be found here:

http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/ineligibilities/ineligibilities_1364.html

Except for 221(g)(2), each of the sub-clauses of 221(g) references something in 212, 213 or 214.

So what would a blue visa denial sheet with no document request look like?

[pushbrk 12,881]

I would have thought that a "hard denial" would include some sort of reference to one of the 212 clause. But there is no reference to any 212 clause. It does NOT mention the most common seen 212(a)(6)©1 clause which says the applicant mis-represented material facts, a very serious accusation.

The precise wording of 221(g) of INA can be found here:

http://travel.state....ities_1364.html

Except for 221(g)(2), each of the sub-clauses of 221(g) references something in 212, 213 or 214.

So what would a blue visa denial sheet with no document request look like?

It's a hard denial, when they say they are sending the case back to USCIS with a recommendation they revoke the approval of the petition. Sometimes they'll get their mind changed and give further consideration but you've done everything you CAN do to influence that. If it's other than a hard denial, they'll give a blue sheet requesting SOMETHING additional, instead of the white sheet your wife was given. If there's something you're reading that seems to contradict what I've written in this post, I'm afraid you are misinterpreting what you read.

If the case goes back to USCIS, you'll get a Notice of Intent to Revoke and have an opportunity to rebut the reasons given. That would be several months from now, at best.

A blue sheet denial would be, first, BLUE and would not indicate the case is being returned to USCIS. It would also site 221g but have the words, "Further consideration will be given to your visa application after you obtain and present....." It could also simply indicate that further administrative processing is needed.

Yours is a hard denial.

Edited November 23, 2011 by pushbrk

[Palladin 18]

Palladin, at this point - I recommend a consulatation with Marc Ellis.

The days of 'keeping the casefile at GUZ IV' after a 221g for not-a-bonafide-relationship are long gone, alas; almost 2 years now - this has been impossible.

Could you elaborate exactly what happened 2 years ago and why it's long gone? I think the response I got from GUZ IV strongly suggests they will give my wife a second interview as obviously there was a communication break down in the first interview.

After carefully scrutinizing all of my wife's answers during the interview I find nothing that is ridiculously wrong. Only three of the answers she gave a questionable.

1. On the date and duration of first trip she said it was on the 23rd Thanksgiving day and it was one plus week, both the 23rd part and the one plus week part was correct. But the interpreter probably omitted the 23rd part and translated the Thanksgiving day part (the 25th of Nov.), which was the wrong day, "one plus week" (more than one week but less than two weeks) would be right (12 days) but if it was translated to "one week" then it was wrong.

2. On the duration of my second trip that we got married. My wife said ten days. My first impression was that the ten days duration was wrong, it was one week. But I scrutinize it a bit and put every day down on a piece of paper, counting from the day I left LAX airport and the day I returned, and counting both the starting and ending day, it was exactly ten days for the trip and we spent eight days together. So ten days was actually a correct answer. But the VO probably asked how long I stayed AFTER the wedding, but the interpreter translated it in such a way that implied the VO was asking for the whole duration of the trip, not just days after the wedding. Another big communication break down. Even I myself initially accused my wife for giving the wrong ten days answer when it was actually corret.

3. Only one thing my wife truly answer wrong was my birth city. She answered the city where my family members in China now lives. But I was born in another city. This was one thing I had not told her prior. It would seem ridiculous to give a hard denial for just one freaking wrong answer of something non-critical.

The questioning went longer than the 4 or 5 questions I expected. But it wasn't a long grilling Q&A either and none of the questions seem to be too out of the norm. So I was surprised that the VO would so quickly jump into his conclusion and would not even give her a second chance.

Hopefully the appeal documents I managed to submit, as well as the long elaborate collection of evidences I submitted with the original I-130 petition show make it abundantly clear to the Administrative Processing official that the visa denial was truly mistaken. The trips occured, all the passport stamp pages, airline boarding passes, hotel receipts and even fee payment receipts received from the GUZ Consulate itself made it clear I made those trips and we two stayed together, not to mention the photos, so any perceived ambuguity in her memory is a moot point to probe.

One important thing I learned, that others may benefit, is that when going to the interview, it is not a matter of simple Q & A in which you give correct and precise answers. It is a matter for you to tell the story. So simple answers like yes or no, or a mere numerical number, do not help. It would have been much better if my wife start to elaborate all the event surrouding our first meet and all those little details, instead of give straight answer of just a number (of days).

[Palladin 18]

It's a hard denial, when they say they are sending the case back to USCIS with a recommendation they revoke the approval of the petition. Sometimes they'll get their mind changed and give further consideration but you've done everything you CAN do to influence that. If it's other than a hard denial, they'll give a blue sheet requesting SOMETHING additional, instead of the white sheet your wife was given. If there's something you're reading that seems to contradict what I've written in this post, I'm afraid you are misinterpreting what you read.

That's not the precise wording. It says return to USCIS "for review and a possible revocation", it does not say the Consulate will attach a recommendation for revocation.

From what I read, there are such thing as blue sheets that does NOT request any additional documentation. What would such blue sheet look like? Since the red sheets for approval are now white, no longer red, I thought maybe the blue sheets are also no longer blue any more? What distinguishes a blue sheet that does not ask for documents, and a hard denial you mentioned?

In all likelihood, my effort probably changed the course of our case. A normal hard denial case will see it going all the way back to USCIS without the applicant/petitioner being able to send in any appeal/rebuttal/documents until you receive notice from USCIS, nor would you be able to hear anything from the Cosulate pertailing to the case. Just as promised in the denial sheet. It would be like the whole thing is sealed up in a blackbox and won't be opened until it is returned to USCIS.

Now what it seems is they acknowledged having received and accepted my appeal documents which address what went wrong during the interview, and promised that the official doing Administrative Processing will see my documents. They re-assured me the files will not be returned to USCIS while they do the AP, and even explicitly said they will bring my wife in for a second interview before they would return the case files to USCIS. I hope that's what's going to happen.

I think it would now make no sense, after they have reviewed my appeal documents, for them to sit down and write out the specific recommendation for petition revocation and send the files back to USCIS. Because they would have to send my appeal documents as part of the case file and would have to provide reasons to over-ride my appeal arguments.

Four possibilities now:

1. They looked at everything and at the end of AP and they still decide to send the file directly back to USCIS, despite of having my appeal documents at hand and having promised me they will call my wife in for a second interview. This is highly unlikely, makes no logical sense. But since occasions where GUZ changed mind and did not send denied cases back to USCIS are exceptionally rare, almost un-heared of, this possibility can not be ruled out.

2. They looked at all the documents and evidences as well as my appeal documents, and decided that second interview is not necessary. So they directly reverse the decision to vosa approval and tell my wife to mail in her passport. This would be the best scenary I can hope for. But it is quite possible as they rarely consider second interview as necessary if they are satisfied with the paper documents.

3. At the end of AP, they are satisfied but call my wife in for a second interview to make sure they get everything right. And this time the interview will go smoothly and the visa is approved. This is the most realistic outcome.

4. They call my wife in for a second interview. My wife still has not memorized every details. Or they grilled her on some really tough questions for half an hour or more and eventually they "got her" on a few wrong answers. We screwed up again and they finally send the case files back to USCIS, just to satisfy their ego that they could not possibly be wrong on visa denials. This is the nightware I want to avoid. I hope they are not that malicious and my wife will be better prepared this time.

[Darnell 8,478]

Please call DoS Hotline on Monday, inquire for casefile status, then let us know?

[Ryan H 3,812]

Since the red sheets for approval are now white, no longer red, I thought maybe the blue sheets are also no longer blue any more? What distinguishes a blue sheet that does not ask for documents, and a hard denial you mentioned?

"Soft" refusal sheets are still on blue.

[pushbrk 12,881]

"Soft" refusal sheets are still on blue.

I've seen one in blue dated as recently as last week. The real key though, is what the sheet says, as noted earlier.

[crazybanana 1]

yes, sounds like you have everything all figured out. what was your questions again??

[Palladin 18]

yes, sounds like you have everything all figured out. what was your questions again??

I am fighting for the (almost) impossible. I am hopeful that they realize they made a mistake and wrongly denied my wife's visa, and that they will give us a second chance of interview. However in the past almost all "hard denial" cases are returned to USCIS, with very rare exceptions that they change mind and the case stays in the Consulate.

I am very positive that the responses I got so far are that they assured me once they finish the Administrative Processing they will notify my wife for further action (I assume second interview or supplemental documents). However I can not ignore the possibility that they still send the case files back to USCIS after everything, due to the odd of statistics. An USCIS appeal will be a very long, unbearably long process. I don't want to see that happen.

[crazybanana 1]

you have a small window while your case is being review. that's why everyone on this board is telling to contact a lawyer so you can figure out what you can do to delay your case from going into the "reject pile". once it's there, it will be there for a long long time. if you truly believe you can argue your way into a second interview, more power to you. somehow you believe they will give you a second chance, but you ignore the fact that almost never happen. you're very positive about what they're telling you, while you don't see what is clearly written on your white slip. do you see the irony here? if hoping and assuming is what you're relying on instead of a good lawyer, then you can also add prayers to it too. another words, get a good attorney to help you. good luck and keep us posted.

Edited November 28, 2011 by crazybanana