Love Doesn't Conquer All

[rlogan 2,036]

I lived for months at a time in a lot of different countries and left a number of beautiful girls from 18 to 28 years old after living with them in their family's house. Only once, loooong ago did I try meeting someone online, after I had already arranged a trip. She turned out to be a manipulative liar and my first instinct stepping off the plane was that I had made a mistake.

The OP isn't even remotely true for us. There were some things we had to work out, but we did that before she came. The first three months we lived together in the Philippines was a marathon, and although I was very enthusiastic I was really hoping she would stop getting me up at 3 am for more nookie.

I can't recommend strongly enough to go live with them first. I've never cared about money. But if you believe that you cannot afford a trip, then I am not sure how you can afford immigration and divorce.

[Crashed~N2~Me 970]

Buscador, I've been thinking about love. Love is like a roll of tape and well, I think it's probably the very strongest adhesive. So I give love a .

(Please watch the vid and maybe you will agree. I appreciate your thoughts.)

I have some (more) thoughts regarding your op but I want to think a bit more b4 I reply. B bak l8r.

[Hank_ 9,174]

There were some things we had to work out, but we did that before she came. The first three months we lived together in the Philippines was a marathon, and although I was very enthusiastic I was really hoping she would stop getting me up at 3 am for more nookie.

I can't recommend strongly enough to go live with them first. I've never cared about money. But if you believe that you cannot afford a trip, then I am not sure how you can afford immigration and divorce.

:rofl: :rofl:

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

I lived for months at a time in a lot of different countries and left a number of beautiful girls from 18 to 28 years old after living with them in their family's house. Only once, loooong ago did I try meeting someone online, after I had already arranged a trip. She turned out to be a manipulative liar and my first instinct stepping off the plane was that I had made a mistake.

The OP isn't even remotely true for us. There were some things we had to work out, but we did that before she came. The first three months we lived together in the Philippines was a marathon, and although I was very enthusiastic I was really hoping she would stop getting me up at 3 am for more nookie.

I can't recommend strongly enough to go live with them first. I've never cared about money. But if you believe that you cannot afford a trip, then I am not sure how you can afford immigration and divorce.

Since you brought that up! I have often wondered, reference the numerous posts I see in different forums.concering people looking for co-sponsers or struggling to meet the poverty guidlines. Not judging anyone, but how in the world are you going to bring a spouse to this country, pay all the the costs associated with it, support another person for several months as a minimum, when you have to have a co-sponsor just to get to 125% of the poverty level. Once again not judging any one,,cause lord know I knew ramen noodles in my younger days, but it seems like you first order of business would be to fix your immediate problem, then think about taking on someone else as a responsibility.

[Crashed~N2~Me 970]

Sure, but with these LDR, there's a lot more faith required, given that neither one has really gotten to see the other that much....to see them in their darkest hour, when they aren't in a good mood, or to see how they handle real conflict. Couples who live closer to one another are more likely to see those sides of their partner with given enough time.

Physical proximity doesn't seem to improve odds.

"Married adults now divorce two-and-a-half times as often as adults did 20 years ago and four times as often as they did 50 years ago... between 40% and 60% of new marriages will eventually end in divorce. The probability within... the first five years is 20%, and the probability of its ending within the first 10 years is 33%... Perhaps 25% of children ages 16 and under live with a stepparent."

—Brian K. Williams, Stacy C. Sawyer, Carl M. Wahlstrom, Marriages, Families & Intimate Relationships, 2005

What's up with Nevada? Perhaps those divorced couples didn't live near (enough to) each other prior to marriage.

Wait a sec!! Maybe there are many many many Fil-Am divorced couples living in Nevada.

I suppose that explains everything.

Edited November 9, 2011 by Crashed~N2~Me

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Sure, but with these LDR, there's a lot more faith required, given that neither one has really gotten to see the other that much....to see them in their darkest hour, when they aren't in a good mood, or to see how they handle real conflict. Couples who live closer to one another are more likely to see those sides of their partner with given enough time.

Physical proximity doesn't seem to improve odds.

I'm not making the argument that marriages from conventional courtships are less likely to divorce at all. I was merely pointing out a specific aspect of the relationship (seeing the less appealing sides of your partner) which is less likely in LDR, particularly international courtships. If we were to look at the statistics, I believe these international marriages do have a higher success rate than more conventional marriages, however, there are obvious problems related to these LDR's - typically shorter courtship and engagement timeline, cultural differences, language barriers, and with those all the expectations that sometimes aren't effectively communicated/understood prior to the foreign spouse leaving their life behind to begin a new one with USC.

[Crashed~N2~Me 970]

however, there are obvious problems related to these LDR's - typically shorter courtship and engagement timeline, cultural differences, language barriers, and with those all the expectations that sometimes aren't effectively communicated/understood prior to the foreign spouse leaving their life behind to begin a new one with USC.

Agreed, but...I don't have much pity (if any) for those entering into marriage without completing (subjectively qualified) due diligence. To those that find themselves disatisfied with their marriage and spouse choice..well...that's what you get.

Blaming love for people's stupidity, selfish interests, underhanded play, lack of thought, lack of awareness and lack of commitment is comparable to ED. Doesn't get the job done.

Love has the capability of growing throughout a lifetime and beyond. Nothing else does. Everything else in the universe moves towards death. Love is the only thing that gets out of here alive. Love does indeed conquer all.

P.S.

I can't think of any function (off the top of my head) of life that doesn't come with an element of give and take or a trade off. Yet, it seems many people (of all nationalities) have an expectation that marriage should be perfect heavenly bliss.

Understanding / knowing one's partner has a lifelong learning curve. Commitment (fueled by love) to the marriage and each other's happiness drives the evolving marriage in the right direction.

Edited November 9, 2011 by Crashed~N2~Me

[Kang 22]

There is a thin line between love and infatuation

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

There is a thin line between love and infatuation

Love and hate are the same emotion, two sides of the same coin. So, I imagine infatuation and contempt are fairly close as well.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Agreed, but...I don't have much pity (if any) for those entering into marriage without completing (subjectively qualified) due diligence. To those that find themselves disatisfied with their marriage and spouse choice..well...that's what you get.

Blaming love for people's stupidity, selfish interests, underhanded play, lack of thought, lack of awareness and lack of commitment is comparable to ED. Doesn't get the job done.

Love has the capability of growing throughout a lifetime and beyond. Nothing else does. Everything else in the universe moves towards death. Love is the only thing that gets out of here alive. Love does indeed conquer all.

P.S.

I can't think of any function (off the top of my head) of life that doesn't come with an element of give and take or a trade off. Yet, it seems many people (of all nationalities) have an expectation that marriage should be perfect heavenly bliss.

Understanding / knowing one's partner has a lifelong learning curve. Commitment (fueled by love) to the marriage and each other's happiness drives the evolving marriage in the right direction.

I agree with some of what you've stated there and really I'm questioning holding onto a cliche' (Love conquers all) that can, IMO, interfere with people's common sense. Take for example a woman who truly loves her husband, even though he has a drinking problem and beats her. She might hang on and stay in the marriage because she too believes that love conquers all. And he could cry himself sober, telling her how sorry he is and how he's gonna change only to go right back to the bottle again and again. So what I'm arguing is that for a relationship to succeed, it takes more than this romantic ideal of love conquering all. It takes a willingness to change our behaviors and possibly our attitudes. We have to make room for the other person in our life instead believing in that someone should love us for who we are. Well yeah, they can love you, but they don't have to put up with your destructive behavior. Sometimes loving someone means letting them go.

Edited November 10, 2011 by DFH

[Hank_ 9,174]

I agree with some of what you've stated there and really I'm questioning holding onto a cliche' (Love conquers all) that can, IMO, interfere with people's common sense. Take for example a woman who truly loves her husband, even though he has a drinking problem and beats her. She might hang on and stay in the marriage because she too believes that love conquers all. And he could cry himself sober, telling her how sorry he is and how he's gonna change only to go right back to the bottle again and again. So what I'm arguing is that for a relationship to succeed, it takes more than this romantic ideal of love conquering all. It takes a willingness to change our behaviors and possibly our attitudes. We have to make room for the other person in our life instead believing in that someone should love us for who we are. Well yeah, they can love you, but they don't have to put up with your destructive behavior. Sometimes loving someone means letting them go.

For sure a relationship requires adjusting to each other. But to expect a person to change dramatically is unreal expectations - if they are doing things you can't accept, the odds are better you don't marry them. And if they are not honest in the beginning about this... shame on them.

Edited November 10, 2011 by Hank_Amy

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

For sure a relationship requires adjusting to each other. But to expect a person to change dramatically is unreal expectations - if they are doing things you can't accept, the odds are better you don't marry them. And if they are not honest in the beginning about this... shame on them.

Long courtships aren't the norm anymore, and besides, people always put the bed foot forward. But, that is what keeps things "interesting", as she has some fifty odd years of catching up on my past, and I have thirty some odd years left to catch up on on her. After four years of marriage, more than enough time to get to know someone, I am still finding out things about my wife, as she does about me, that neither of us would have suspected, good and bad. Such is life, especially when you have already lived so much before even knowing your spouse ever existed.

Time for a modified cliche: Abstinence makes the heart grow fonder. The LDR forces the couple to actually communicate. When you are in love, and in the same room, you survive on the closeness, and the physical presence, not the exchange of anecdotal information and shared family histories. There is no, "Shut up and kiss me, you fool!" when your future mate is on the other side of the planet.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

For sure a relationship requires adjusting to each other. But to expect a person to change dramatically is unreal expectations - if they are doing things you can't accept, the odds are better you don't marry them. And if they are not honest in the beginning about this... shame on them.

Yep. Unfortunately, a lot of these long distant courtships make it easier for a spouse to hide a drinking problem, or that they like to put their fist through the wall when they get angry. Then, by the time the Filipina has gone through all the legal hoops to get here to be with her Kano, she really has no 'out' except through extreme circumstances and even then, she has no one familiar to turn to.

For the USC, if it's unacceptable behavior coming from the Filipina, he has little options available to him besides sending her on plane back to the Philippines. This is what we read about all too often in this forum. So, I would argue that expectations about the relationship have to be more realistic and both spouses should have a clear idea of what is acceptable and not acceptable behavior from their spouse. We Americans culturally tend to look for an easy exit when we're faced with a crisis, only in these Fil/Am marriages, there are no easy exits.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Mister Fancypants

[Hank_ 9,174]

People know their bad sides, for them to think they can hide it from their spouse is ridiculous on their part. Everyone has good days and bad days, that is to be expected, but not revealing sides of ones self that they "know" are not good or acceptable at the beginning of the courting is just wrong. Putting your best foot forward has little value for a lasting relationship, putting your worse foot forward and finding the other person still there is of value. To do otherwise you are not only lying to the other person, you are lying to yourself.

Sure there are lots of discoveries during a marriage but for the most part those should be nuances as you move closer and closer to the person - not #######!! kind of things.

I have been married before and this was my approach back then and it worked quite well (...sadly no one can prepare for cancer). Talk about everything in the beginning, even the silly little things; How do you put your cups and glasses in the cupboard? TP, over or under? Favorite foods. Snoring - yup I do that one. Music. Movies. Sports. Hobbies. Which side of the bed?

I continual strive to learn more and more about Amy and of course keep no secrets.

I read on here of a guy that made of list of what foods his Fiancee is allowed to eat and then gave it to her!!! Good grief!! #######!!!???? Where does he get off with that one?

Acceptance and Respect.... know it. learn it, live it.

JMOSHO!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

People know their bad sides, for them to think they can hide it from their spouse is ridiculous on their part. Everyone has good days and bad days, that is to be expected, but not revealing sides of ones self that they "know" are not good or acceptable at the beginning of the courting is just wrong. Putting your best foot forward has little value for a lasting relationship, putting your worse foot forward and finding the other person still there is of value. To do otherwise you are not only lying to the other person, you are lying to yourself.

Sure there are lots of discoveries during a marriage but for the most part those should be nuances as you move closer and closer to the person - not #######!! kind of things.

I have been married before and this was my approach back then and it worked quite well (...sadly no one can prepare for cancer). Talk about everything in the beginning, even the silly little things; How do you put your cups and glasses in the cupboard? TP, over or under? Favorite foods. Snoring - yup I do that one. Music. Movies. Sports. Hobbies. Which side of the bed?

I continual strive to learn more and more about Amy and of course keep no secrets.

I read on here of a guy that made of list of what foods his Fiancee is allowed to eat and then gave it to her!!! Good grief!! #######!!!???? Where does he get off with that one?

Acceptance and Respect.... know it. learn it, live it.

JMOSHO!

I agree that communicating like that helps both spouses have realistic expectations, however, most people are in denial of their problems or issues (I don't have a drinking problem), so they don't say anything. So a Filipina who leaves her entire life behind to live with a man she's not seen in his own habitat has few options should she only find out after she's arrived. And who is to say whether she should simply leave because he's got a drinking problem? Maybe she now considers it her problem too? The whole unconditional love and commitment thingy that so many Kanos find appealing. IMO, these Filipinas are clearly at a disadvantage because the Kano can more easily hide certain behaviors from her until she gets here with her having no other place to go or person to turn to. Understanding that from both sides and doing your best to minimize that disadvantage would go a long way in avoiding the all-too-often situation where the Kano comes on to a forum like this one and claims that the whole relationship was a scam and she's only in it for the Green Card. That's an easy cop out from facing the fact that maybe he needs to modify his behavior and attitude.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Mister Fancypants