discuss the (de)merits of child support being used as income etc

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

I'm terribly sorry, Ms. Jo -that wasn't specifically directed at you.

But thanks for the singular thought, 'twas nice!

I stand by my original posit:

Child support Paid Out should reduce the AGI, not be taxable

Child support received should not be taxable at all, have no impact on the AGI.

Where else are you going to "incentivize" income than the Federal tax return?

[Darnell 8,478]

Where else are you going to "incentivize" income than the Federal tax return?

I think that's enough, Federal Tax Return is sufficient.

What are yer thoughts?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I say no, it should not be counted as income, unless it is taxed as income.

If it's taxed, then it's income, useful on the I-134/I-864. But that's my thought - I've no idea what the regs are.

what if we do away with income tax, or implement a 9% sales tax? Then what?

what if you just have assets? what if they give a tax credit for certain income? what about deductions? What about long term annuities from insurance settlements? What about 47% of US households pay NO income tax due to deductions and credits? They have -0- income? Be serious Darnell, you are way more clever than that.

The regulations allow ANY income except SSI to be counted (SSDI is acceptable). Even unemployment counts but I have not heard of anyone that qualified on UE alone as it is not considered permanent.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

I think that's enough, Federal Tax Return is sufficient.

What are yer thoughts?

Like I said, child support is already not taxable to the "receiving" parent. Alimony is taxable.

The person paying the support usually takes the exemption for the child.

Seems to me things have already been "incentivized". So what's yer point.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I think that's enough, Federal Tax Return is sufficient.

What are yer thoughts?

You are being ridiculous.

A family of four could have an income of 60,000+ and pay NO tax. Easily, especially if they have a student in college. That alone is a $2600 tax CREDIT that comes right off anything you owe. Plus $1000 per child tax credit plus a bonus $1000 child tax credit. Itemized deductions, medical savings plan, pre tax IRA contributions, yada, yada, yada. So they should have no income for an affidavit of support?

This is why they use GROSS income in the calculations. Line 22. That is before any tax is calculated or any deductions taken.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

You are being ridiculous.

A family of four could have an income of 60,000+ and pay NO tax. Easily, especially if they have a student in college. That alone is a $2600 tax CREDIT that comes right off anything you owe. Plus $1000 per child tax credit plus a bonus $1000 child tax credit. Itemized deductions, medical savings plan, pre tax IRA contributions, yada, yada, yada. So they should have no income for an affidavit of support?

This is why they use GROSS income in the calculations. Line 22. That is before any tax is calculated or any deductions taken.

I really wish you would shut up about this.

Not everybody is so highly mortgaged that they can itemize. Some people choose smaller homes or put enough down there's not enough interest to itemize.

Everything in your world is f-ing black and white. Really. You need to get out more.

[kytwell 179]

Since I am now slightly curious about this being used as income for VISA purposes. If you are the one having to pay child support, let's say 4000 a year and are only making 2000 a year over the poverty level, USCIS doesn't look at this angle? They only look at it if you are receiving it?

Edited November 1, 2011 by kytwell

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Since I am now slightly curious about this being used as income for VISA purposes. If you are the one having to pay child support, let's say 4000 a year and are only making 2000 a year over the poverty level, USCIS doesn't look at this angle? They only look at it if you are receiving it?

USCIS doesn't look at your outgoing income. For anything. They don't look at your mortgage payments, your car payments, your credit card payments, your 401K deductions, your healthcare costs - nada.

If you are claiming the child on the tax return, then you might have to add them to your household count. Likewise the parent who doesn't count the child would not include the child in the household count. Thus they would not be able to show "child support" without someone saying - where's the kid?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Since I am now slightly curious about this being used as income for VISA purposes. If you are the one having to pay child support, let's say 4000 a year and are only making 2000 a year over the poverty level, USCIS doesn't look at this angle? They only look at it if you are receiving it?

No, They go by GROSS income which means if you are paying support they do not count it against you, but they also count the children in your family size. There is no inequity. They use GROSS income. Line 22. Child support is not deducted from income. If you make $60,000 and pay $4000 in child support, the income they count is $60,000.

Serious, how may more times does this need to be explained? It really is extremely simple. ALL INCOME counts, ALL PEOPLE count. Good grief.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

USCIS doesn't look at your outgoing income. For anything. They don't look at your mortgage payments, your car payments, your credit card payments, your 401K deductions, your healthcare costs - nada.

If you are claiming the child on the tax return, then you might have to add them to your household count. Likewise the parent who doesn't count the child would not include the child in the household count. Thus they would not be able to show "child support" without someone saying - where's the kid?

True until the last part. Read the instructions. ALL children count regardless where they live or who claims them on income tax. The instructions are VERY clear and specific about this and specify that how they are claimed for TAX purposes has NO affect on how USCIS considers them.

Only children age 21 or older OR emancipated children over age 18 can be excluded.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

From the I-864 instructions

Your household size includes yourself and the following individuals, no matter where they live: any spouse, any dependent children under the age of 21, any other dependents listed on your most recent Federal income tax return, all persons being sponsored in this affidavit of support, and any immigrants previously sponsored with a Form I-864 or Form I-864 EZ affidavit of support whom you are still obligated to support. If necessary to meet the income requirements to be a sponsor, you may include additional relatives (adult children, parents, or siblings) as part of your household size as long as they have the same principle residence as you and promise to use their income and resources in support of the intending immigrant(s).

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

From step by step instructions...

21d - Enter the number of unmarried children you have who are under age 21, even if you do not have legal custody of these children. You may exclude any unmarried children under 21, if these children have reached majority under the law of their place of domicile and you do not claim them as dependents on your income tax returns.

Edited November 1, 2011 by Gary and Alla

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

More from step by step

23. You may include evidence supporting your claim about your expected income for the current year if you believe that submitting this evidence will help you establish ability to maintain sufficient income. You are not required to submit this evidence, however, unless specifically instructed to do so by a Government official. For example, you may include a recent letter from your employer, showing your employer's address and telephone number, and indicating your annual salary. You may also provide pay stub(s) showing your income for the previous six months. If your claimed income includes alimony, child support, dividend or interest income, or income from any other source, you may also include evidence of that income.Enter your current individual earned or retirement annual income that you are using to meet the requirements of this form and indicate the total on this line

[Darnell 8,478]

The person paying the support usually takes the exemption for the child.

Uhm, no. Usually the person paying for child support does not take an exemption for the child, not able to 'claim' the child as a dependent, as the child not have same domicile.

what if we do away with income tax, or implement a 9% sales tax? Then what?

what if you just have assets? what if they give a tax credit for certain income? what about deductions? What about long term annuities from insurance settlements? What about 47% of US households pay NO income tax due to deductions and credits? They have -0- income? Be serious Darnell, you are way more clever than that.

The regulations allow ANY income except SSI to be counted (SSDI is acceptable). Even unemployment counts but I have not heard of anyone that qualified on UE alone as it is not considered permanent.

Oh, sorry, I was only thinking of child support as income from a IRS form 1040 standpoint, not any I-864 or I-134 standpoint.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Since I am now slightly curious about this being used as income for VISA purposes. If you are the one having to pay child support, let's say 4000 a year and are only making 2000 a year over the poverty level, USCIS doesn't look at this angle? They only look at it if you are receiving it?

Lets say that you and your ex spouse are divorced and you pay $4000 per year in child support for ONE child that lives with your ex-wife. You rex wife lives in Florida anbd you live in California. By mutual agreement SHE claims the child on her taxes, YOU do not.

You are BOTH filing K-1 petitions for a new foreign spouse.

YOU must claim a family size of THREE (you, your fiancee and the child)

Your ex wife must claim a family size of THREE (her, the child and the fiance)

YOUR gross income is $60,000 per year and that is what you state. You attach w-2s to prove it. Nothing is deducted for child support.

Her gross income is $40,000 PLUS $4000 for a total oncome of $44,000. She attaches w-2s AND proof that she is receiving the child support.

NO FAIR! You say, because the child is counted twice! YES, but so is the corresponding income to support that child! Your qualifying income is sent to her to be added to her qualifying income but it still "counts" for you as it is part of the family size equation and is netted out by counting the child in the family size.