discuss the (de)merits of child support being used as income etc

[Danno 1,228]

If it's in the household, it's going to support those in the household. Married, divorced, separated or whatever, doesn't really matter, we're talking households. If I have the basic understanding of yours and Gary's position properly? Which would eventually include the incoming immigrant? So, although you say you want it to be counted to get over the poverty threshhold in the USCIS/NVC eyes, you are turning around and saying to the rest of us that the child support won't be of any benefit to the incoming immigrant, who will soon be living in the household. See! We can play semantics all day long.

I think it was slim who had used the analogy of: a welfare recipient playing and winning the lottery, but saying he didn't use welfare money to gamble with.

If it really was income, you'd be taxed on it. You all betta bele dat!

I'm not si sure about that, I mean, if I give a nice donation to Habitat 4 Humanity, I'm not taxed on it.... yet it came from my income.

There is taxable income and nontaxable income, while no doubt it can be confusing.... Not sure the IRS ruling on which is which is applicable to everything.

[kytwell 179]

Voluntarily giving your money away to a non-profit versus compulsory transfer of your post tax dollars earned, into your exes or baby mama's account, are a bit different. One you can write that "gift/donation" off on your taxes. Second, the IRS doesn't consider child support as income for the receiver, nor tax deductible for the giver.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

So kytwell, you consider child support to be a "compulsory transfer of post tax dollars earned"?

If you are ever in the situation where you are paying support, don't let your kids hear you talk like that. Kids remember.

[kytwell 179]

So kytwell, you consider child support to be a "compulsory transfer of post tax dollars earned"?

If you are ever in the situation where you are paying support, don't let your kids hear you talk like that. Kids remember.

Rebecca, I did pay before. 500+ a month for 50-50 custody. I now have sole legal and physical custody and only collect 315 a month. Their "incubator" sees them once a week(if she shows up) in a supervised setting. I don't need the child support. I only filed for it, for the principle of the matter. I am beginning to think though if I stopped the process, maybe she would disappear and not see the kids anymore.

And yes if you work at a regular place, they take the money automatically out of your paycheck. So it is compulsory, it's not like you can put it into a bank acct for the month, let it earn interest and then send it over to her on the 1st of the month. She quit her job, so I don't get it anymore. She has yet to be arrested for it. She's been found in contempt 4 times and they just add fines/fees on top of her arrears.

[kytwell 179]

Rebecca, I did pay before. 500+ a month for 50-50 custody. I now have sole legal and physical custody and only collect 315 a month. Their "incubator" sees them once a week(if she shows up) in a supervised setting. I don't need the child support. I only filed for it, for the principle of the matter. I am beginning to think though if I stopped the process, maybe she would disappear and not see the kids anymore.

And yes if you work at a regular place, they take the money automatically out of your paycheck. So it is compulsory, it's not like you can put it into a bank acct for the month, let it earn interest and then send it over to her on the 1st of the month. She quit her job, so I don't get it anymore. She has yet to be arrested for it. She's been found in contempt 4 times and they just add fines/fees on top of her arrears.

EDIT: I typed to fast with out proof reading it. She's _NOTbeen found in contempt 4 times but if she ever was they just add fines/fees to her arrears

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Yep

Ever heard of a 529 plan? Did that while married the 1st time too

Ok the above rant/lecture is in regards to the visa process. I thought this was topic here regarding child support, not visa process. And the gov't has this wrong IMHO, as it(gov)is wrong in many other cases too!

Maybe our definitions of "income" are very different. I have always been under the impression I pay taxes on "income" whether it's earned through work, dividends, interest etc, etc. Someone receiving child support isn't paying taxes on it, so it's not really income. It's a subsidy for the kids and should be treated as such, not as income. We'll have to disagree on what "income" really means.

It is about child support being counted as income for the purpose of immigration.

The guidelines allow for the expenses of children which is why they ADD to the needed income for each person. You need to be able to count ALL income if you count each person. Each person (child) after the first two (petitoner and fiancee) adds approx. $4500 per year to the requirement. $4500 is nearly $400 per month which means for a lot of people the child support is essentially already "zeroed out" and they have said that this "income" is for the children BUT it increases the amount of money available from the petitioners income available to support the immigrant...which is only the truth.

Allowing it to be counted as income has NO AFFECT on whether it is used for the children exclusively or not. That is determined by if a parent is responsible or not. An irresponsible parent hardly needs an immigrant spouse to be irresponsible.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

If it really was income, you'd be taxed on it. You all betta bele dat!

So you mean when I worked overseas and made more than $100,000 per year tax free I had no income? Between tax free foreign income, tax free living expenses and tax free overseas bonus. Seriously? Workmans comp is not taxed but it is income. Are you telling me our soldiers that are paid un-taxed combat pay have NO INCOME? Tax free government bond income? How the IRS treats income has nothing to do with how USCIS treats it. USCIS is not the IRS, and should not be.

Stop being silly.

Child support IS taxed. The person PAYING the child support is taxed for it, just as he/she would be if they were still married and used that portion of their income for children's needs. One of the people involved gets to write off the expenses of the children on their tax return. This is decided by individual grown-ups, either one can claim the credits and exemptions, but ONLY one can. The children cannot be claimed n two returns. If it were up to me (and it isn;t) I would say the person paying support ought to get the tax credits BUT, that is only a portion of the support, so, as I said, it is for grown-ups to decide.

Clearly this is being hashed out here by people blinded to reality by some sort of personal problem, mostly I suspect one of jealousy ("I give the b*tch $800 per month and now she wants to marry some swinging d*ck from Morroco!") That kind of thing. It is also being discussed as if a family can function with nice little "firewalls" between funds. Stupid. That is why families disintegrate. Responsible adults decide what is best to do for the family, they do not say "$800 is for the kids and the rest is for bowling!" If I found $1000 in a bag on the street and could get out of there before the drug dealer that dropped came back I would give it all to my wife and kids. There would be nothing I could do with it that would make me happier. Alla would then give her share to the kids.

Child support IS income, It does not matter if you wish to be wrong and disagree.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

EDIT: I typed to fast with out proof reading it. She's _NOTbeen found in contempt 4 times but if she ever was they just add fines/fees to her arrears

Forget about child support for a moment as what we call it really makes no difference

If you get married to someone from Greece (or Cleveland for that matter) and that person cannot work (K-1) that person will necessarily TAKE money that is NOW available for the children. Maybe you should not be able to get married at all, right?

BUT if your future spouse ends up working and ADDING income then may be the kids will have MORE money available to them. Right? Who should decide such things for your family? Me? The government?

And again we need to concern ourselves with the reason for the affidavit of support. It is NOT to make sure the kids have enough to survive, THAT is your job. This is about making sure the government can confiscate money from you IF your future spouse becomes a public charge and NOTHING ELSE.

If they become a public charge, the government is going to say "#### the Kids! We are taking your pay deadbeat!"

[kytwell 179]

Is child support taxable?

No. Individuals who receive child support on behalf of their children do not pay income tax on that money.

Is child support tax deductible?

No. Individuals who pay child support can not deduct the amount of child support paid from their total income for the purpose of adjusting their total taxable income.

Immigration is not the IRS, I agree. IDC who can and can not marry either or from where they previously resided. IDC about some afadavit either for immigration purposes. And in my state at least, when it comes to determining child support they DO NOT consider the new spouse's income for re-determination purposes. I could marry a millionaire, her income wouldn't get my ex-wife's child support payment's lowered. My ex tried this just a few months ago. And as the hearing officer stated "she(my current wife) is not in any way financially responsible for my kids."

Child support is considered income for immigration purposes. It is not considered income for tax purposes. This much we agree on? I don't have the foggiest idea about what's right or wrong in regards to immigration. What I care about is child support going for the benefit of the intended recipient('s). I thought we were in off topic politic's not a visa thread, I don't post there much as it's not my specialty.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Is child support taxable?

No. Individuals who receive child support on behalf of their children do not pay income tax on that money.

Is child support tax deductible?

No. Individuals who pay child support can not deduct the amount of child support paid from their total income for the purpose of adjusting their total taxable income.

Immigration is not the IRS, I agree. IDC who can and can not marry either or from where they previously resided. IDC about some afadavit either for immigration purposes. And in my state at least, when it comes to determining child support they DO NOT consider the new spouse's income for re-determination purposes. I could marry a millionaire, her income wouldn't get my ex-wife's child support payment's lowered. My ex tried this just a few months ago. And as the hearing officer stated "she(my current wife) is not in any way financially responsible for my kids."

Child support is considered income for immigration purposes. It is not considered income for tax purposes. This much we agree on? I don't have the foggiest idea about what's right or wrong in regards to immigration. What I care about is child support going for the benefit of the intended recipient('s). I thought we were in off topic politic's not a visa thread, I don't post there much as it's not my specialty.

So you are arguing that money received for child support should be used for children. With whom? I see no one here disagreeing with that. USCIS has nothing to do with whether you are a responsible parent.

The topic, and the former one where this thread came from, was about whether child support should be counted as income for an affidavit of support. Period. There really is nothing else to discuss at this website. The OP thinks that a person doing an affidavit of support should NOT be able to count child support as income for the affidavit. And should be required to support the entire family on their "own" income as if that income is also not for the children. I disagree for sensible reasons. The topic is not even about whether it gets used for children, only if it can be counted as income for an affidavit.

why it is in politics and religion I do not say. The OP put it here and it has not been moved.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

I can pretty much assure you that if you share these views within earshot of your children, kytwell, you are going to make them feel like either pieces of meat or bargaining chips.

[Darnell 8,479]

Perhaps divorce could be 'incentivized' for both ex-spouses?

Child support paid out, reduces the AGI

Child support received, is not taxable as income.

What are your thoughts?

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Perhaps divorce could be 'incentivized' for both ex-spouses?

Child support paid out, reduces the AGI

Child support received, is not taxable as income.

What are your thoughts?

Child support received is already not taxable as income, Darnell.

My thoughts are you should pay attention.

[Darnell 8,479]

So you are arguing that money received for child support should be used for children. With whom? I see no one here disagreeing with that. USCIS has nothing to do with whether you are a responsible parent.

The topic, and the former one where this thread came from, was about whether child support should be counted as income for an affidavit of support. Period.

I say no, it should not be counted as income, unless it is taxed as income.

If it's taxed, then it's income, useful on the I-134/I-864. But that's my thought - I've no idea what the regs are.

[Darnell 8,479]

Child support received is already not taxable as income, Darnell.

My thoughts are you should pay attention.

I'm terribly sorry, Ms. Jo -that wasn't specifically directed at you.

But thanks for the singular thought, 'twas nice!

I stand by my original posit:

Child support Paid Out should reduce the AGI, not be taxable

Child support received should not be taxable at all, have no impact on the AGI.