Just Starting on K1

[john_and_marlene 162]

The OP wants to marry in the States.

And I want my AOS without fees or wait. I'm not gonna get it just because I want it.

Sheesh, that's a bit harsh. I thought the point of the thread was to suggest to the OP how he might accomplish the goal of having his wedding in the States.

The OP stated that he plans to marry his Chinese fiancee stateside. Granted, he's up against some challenges. That doesn't mean we shouldn't suggest to him honestly and completely the avenues available to him.

I was more blunt this time because you missed my point in my original post. There may not be a valid path to get what he wants within the constraints of reality. Getting an "alternate" visa because you can't get the one that will allow what you want doesn't make it a valid path. I suggested what I honestly believe to be the correct avenue to him ... the DCF. In this case the reality may be that they can't get married in the states with the other constraints of her not being allowed the proper visa and them wanting to remain living in China.

Edited February 23, 2006 by john_and_marlene

[pax 0]

I was more blunt this time because you missed my point in my original post. There may not be a valid path to get what he wants within the constraints of reality. Getting an "alternate" visa because you can't get the one that will allow what you want doesn't make it a valid path. I suggested what I honestly believe to be the correct avenue to him ... the DCF. In this case the reality may be that they can't get married in the states with the other constraints of her not being allowed the proper visa and them wanting to remain living in China.

A DCF makes no sense right now. First of all, they'd have to be married. Second of all, I don't know, and I don't know that you know either, what the Guangzhou Consulate's policy is on DCF. Third, if they do allow it and the OP meets the requirements, there's no guarantee that it won't take as long as a K visa or a tourist visa.

The tourist visa is the most appropriate visa for the OP's fiancee. They want to get married in the States, visit with some friends and family possibly, and return to China. A DCF would result in a CR-1 immigrant visa. The OP's fiancee has no immigrant intent at this time. If she entered with an CR-1, activated the green card issuance, and then left after her wedding for several years (as the OP says they intend to do), she could be found to have abandoned her permanent residency and they'd have to start all over again. Not good.

You're being all kinds of theoretical about what the OP may or may not want in the future instead of dealing with their situation as it is right now. I'm thinking that if an American citizen can prove significant economic and personal ties to China, his fiancee could very well get a tourist visa to have their wedding in the States. Then, if they decide to return to the States later as husband and wife, a DCF might well be appropriate.

Edited February 23, 2006 by pax

[zyggy 9]

I was more blunt this time because you missed my point in my original post. There may not be a valid path to get what he wants within the constraints of reality. Getting an "alternate" visa because you can't get the one that will allow what you want doesn't make it a valid path. I suggested what I honestly believe to be the correct avenue to him ... the DCF. In this case the reality may be that they can't get married in the states with the other constraints of her not being allowed the proper visa and them wanting to remain living in China.

A DCF makes no sense right now. First of all, they'd have to be married. Second of all, I don't know, and I don't know that you know either, what the Guangzhou Consulate's policy is on DCF. Third, if they do allow it and the OP meets the requirements, there's no guarantee that it won't take as long as a K visa or a tourist visa.

The tourist visa is the most appropriate visa for the OP's fiancee. They want to get married in the States, visit with some friends and family possibly, and return to China. A DCF would result in a CR-1 immigrant visa. The OP's fiancee has no immigrant intent at this time. If she entered with an CR-1, activated the green card issuance, and then left after her wedding for several years (as the OP says they intend to do), she could be found to have abandoned her permanent residency and they'd have to start all over again. Not good.

You're being all kinds of theoretical about what the OP may or may not want in the future instead of dealing with their situation as it is right now. I'm thinking that if an American citizen can prove significant economic and personal ties to China, his fiancee could very well get a tourist visa to have their wedding in the States. Then, if they decide to return to the States later as husband and wife, a DCF might well be appropriate.

I agree with pax... the B2 is definitely the correct route to go and misrepresenting yourself while getting the K1 (i.e. using it to bypass a B visa) may cause some big headaches later when the OP DOES intend to return to the US with his wife. This is a case where doing something that may be expedient in the short term could cause more and larger delays and problems in the long term.

The best course of action would be to present evidence of the USC's ties to China and evidence that he will be returning to China with his then wife at the end of the visit. I would also provide evidence of the wedding such as invitations and the like to show that there is something planned.

The chances of the Chinese national getting the visa is based on the strength of the USC's ties to China. I believe that this would be the better angle to take than to just give up on getting the B visa altogether.

Edited February 23, 2006 by zyggy

[john_and_marlene 162]

I was more blunt this time because you missed my point in my original post. There may not be a valid path to get what he wants within the constraints of reality. Getting an "alternate" visa because you can't get the one that will allow what you want doesn't make it a valid path. I suggested what I honestly believe to be the correct avenue to him ... the DCF. In this case the reality may be that they can't get married in the states with the other constraints of her not being allowed the proper visa and them wanting to remain living in China.

A DCF makes no sense right now. First of all, they'd have to be married. Second of all, I don't know, and I don't know that you know either, what the Guangzhou Consulate's policy is on DCF. Third, if they do allow it and the OP meets the requirements, there's no guarantee that it won't take as long as a K visa or a tourist visa.

The tourist visa is the most appropriate visa for the OP's fiancee. They want to get married in the States, visit with some friends and family possibly, and return to China. A DCF would result in a CR-1 immigrant visa. The OP's fiancee has no immigrant intent at this time. If she entered with an CR-1, activated the green card issuance, and then left after her wedding for several years (as the OP says they intend to do), she could be found to have abandoned her permanent residency and they'd have to start all over again. Not good.

You're being all kinds of theoretical about what the OP may or may not want in the future instead of dealing with their situation as it is right now. I'm thinking that if an American citizen can prove significant economic and personal ties to China, his fiancee could very well get a tourist visa to have their wedding in the States. Then, if they decide to return to the States later as husband and wife, a DCF might well be appropriate.

First, if the US citizen is resident abroad with their spouse, the US Consulate will ALWAYS do Direct Consular Filing. For international couples where the USC lives in the US and the foreign spouse abroad, there are some countries whose Consulates allow local filing of the I-130 even when the USC is not resident in the foreign country. This is a courtesy to USCs and guidelines vary around the world.

I mentioned DCF because they may someday want to immigrate to the U.S. and in the case where the USC is a resident of the foreign country, this applies for when they are ready for that. I don't think it's helpful to help the OP try to finds ways around the inability to obtain the correct visa for what will clearly be a "visit" to the U.S. at this time. I have separated the issues of getting married and that of coming to the U.S. because they are only linked by the desire to get married in the U.S. The desire to continue residing in China for the next few years complicates that. What are the priorities?

If they want to get married in the U.S., the USC could come back, establish residency, and apply for K1, but that isn't what they want to do with regards to residency.

I'm just saying that the intent of the K1 visa is to join a foreign fiance/fiancee with a USC residing in the U.S. and not to serve as an entry visa for a "visit" during which you will get married.

[pax 0]

First, if the US citizen is resident abroad with their spouse, the US Consulate will ALWAYS do Direct Consular Filing. For international couples where the USC lives in the US and the foreign spouse abroad, there are some countries whose Consulates allow local filing of the I-130 even when the USC is not resident in the foreign country. This is a courtesy to USCs and guidelines vary around the world.

I mentioned DCF because they may someday want to immigrate to the U.S. and in the case where the USC is a resident of the foreign country, this applies for when they are ready for that...

Look, I don't mean to quibble with you, but first of all, your first para. was a copy-and-paste job from the DCF guide. Every consulate has different requirements for DCF. London is a tough one; the USC has to have ILR (Indefinite Leave to Remain, the UK equivalent of a 10-year green card) in the UK to do DCF. Meanwhile, in Sydney, Australia, the USC can simply take a long vacation in Oz and qualify for DCF. Neither you nor I know the requirements for a DCF in Guangzhou, but the biggest, most obvious requirement is that the couple has to be married already. Which they're not.

Second of all, are you not aware of the abandonment problem? The OP stated that he and his fiancee wish to travel to the States, marry, and return to China for some number of years. Permanent residency can be considered abandoned if the LPR is out of the country for the long-term; it's a gray area, as Meauxna and other people here will tell you, but an absence of more than a year will surely raise some great big red flags to a CBP officer. A DCF results in a CR-1 or IR-1 visa. When that visa is activated, it results in a green card. Which can be abandoned if the couple returns to China for a year or more.

[Dixie_Peach 1]

Wish you the best

[john_and_marlene 162]

First, if the US citizen is resident abroad with their spouse, the US Consulate will ALWAYS do Direct Consular Filing. For international couples where the USC lives in the US and the foreign spouse abroad, there are some countries whose Consulates allow local filing of the I-130 even when the USC is not resident in the foreign country. This is a courtesy to USCs and guidelines vary around the world.

I mentioned DCF because they may someday want to immigrate to the U.S. and in the case where the USC is a resident of the foreign country, this applies for when they are ready for that...

Look, I don't mean to quibble with you, but first of all, your first para. was a copy-and-paste job from the DCF guide. Every consulate has different requirements for DCF. London is a tough one; the USC has to have ILR (Indefinite Leave to Remain, the UK equivalent of a 10-year green card) in the UK to do DCF. Meanwhile, in Sydney, Australia, the USC can simply take a long vacation in Oz and qualify for DCF. Neither you nor I know the requirements for a DCF in Guangzhou, but the biggest, most obvious requirement is that the couple has to be married already. Which they're not.

Second of all, are you not aware of the abandonment problem? The OP stated that he and his fiancee wish to travel to the States, marry, and return to China for some number of years. Permanent residency can be considered abandoned if the LPR is out of the country for the long-term; it's a gray area, as Meauxna and other people here will tell you, but an absence of more than a year will surely raise some great big red flags to a CBP officer. A DCF results in a CR-1 or IR-1 visa. When that visa is activated, it results in a green card. Which can be abandoned if the couple returns to China for a year or more.

I hope you aren't getting the idea that I'm trying to be antagonistic. I'm just trying to debate my point.

You are correct that I got that from the guide. I used that because it shows there are 2 types of DCF ... one where the USC is clearly a resident of the foreign country (like the UK ILR requirement) which he seems to be having lived there for years and the other for a USC that does not reside in the foreign country in which case rules will vary by consulate. Yes I realize they are not currently married and would have to be for DCF in the future if they plan to subsequently reside in the U.S. someday. I was saying that IF they really want to get married, it may not be possible, within their other constraints, to do it in the U.S.

All of the marriage based visas are intended to be used for immigration and that is not the intent here.

It is my opinion that application for a visa for other than it's intended use is fraud.

Edited February 23, 2006 by john_and_marlene

[pax 0]

Yes I realize they are not currently married and would have to be for DCF in the future if they plan to subsequently reside in the U.S. someday. I was saying that IF they really want to get married, it may not be possible, within their other constraints, to do it in the U.S.

All of the marriage based visas are intended to be used for immigration and that is not the intent here.

It is my opinion that application for a visa for other than it's intended use is fraud.

You're right, it may not be possible. My point (and I think Zyggy's too) is that there is a visa that will allow the OP and his fiancee to do exactly what they want, and, given their unique, individual circumstances, chances seem good that they could obtain that visa.

But you're suggesting a DCF for a couple who is not married and has no plans for the non-USC to immigrate at this time. A DCF might well be the appropriate move down the road. It's not now. And there's not much point in talking about it since there are no plans to immigrate.

The OP's timeframe is really the only thing that's unrealistic. Certainly a USC wanting to marry a Chinese national in the States might have thought harder and sooner about how he plans to get her into the States for the wedding (OP, I'm talking to you here...sorry). But if he and his sweetie are willing to push back the plans a few months, it's not unthinkable that, in her unique circumstances, she could get a tourist visa.

Who knows, she could still be denied. But it's not the "no-way" situation that it would be for other young, single Chinese women with American fiances.

[john_and_marlene 162]

Yes I realize they are not currently married and would have to be for DCF in the future if they plan to subsequently reside in the U.S. someday. I was saying that IF they really want to get married, it may not be possible, within their other constraints, to do it in the U.S.

All of the marriage based visas are intended to be used for immigration and that is not the intent here.

It is my opinion that application for a visa for other than it's intended use is fraud.

You're right, it may not be possible. My point (and I think Zyggy's too) is that there is a visa that will allow the OP and his fiancee to do exactly what they want, and, given their unique, individual circumstances, chances seem good that they could obtain that visa.

But you're suggesting a DCF for a couple who is not married and has no plans for the non-USC to immigrate at this time. A DCF might well be the appropriate move down the road. It's not now. And there's not much point in talking about it since there are no plans to immigrate.

The OP's timeframe is really the only thing that's unrealistic. Certainly a USC wanting to marry a Chinese national in the States might have thought harder and sooner about how he plans to get her into the States for the wedding (OP, I'm talking to you here...sorry). But if he and his sweetie are willing to push back the plans a few months, it's not unthinkable that, in her unique circumstances, she could get a tourist visa.

Who knows, she could still be denied. But it's not the "no-way" situation that it would be for other young, single Chinese women with American fiances.

I think we actually agree that his original thought of using a K1 is a bad path?

Hopefully he will actually return long enough to see that.

[pax 0]

Yes, we agree on that.

[john_and_marlene 162]

Yes, we agree on that.

Yay!

[MrMrsKnight 0]

Isn't the intent of the K visas to rejoin couples in a shorter time? ... They are already joined.

Well if that was the intent then a lot of couples here couldn't get a K1 because they already live together too. I believe that the intent is to bring a foreign fiance to the US to marry.

It's their right, not their job, to change status. But I do understand they expect it from the couples that file a K1.

I really don't think they'll have a visa by may though

Good luck to you anyway!

Sheesh, that's a bit harsh. I thought the point of the thread was to suggest to the OP how he might accomplish the goal of having his wedding in the States.

The OP stated that he plans to marry his Chinese fiancee stateside. Granted, he's up against some challenges. That doesn't mean we shouldn't suggest to him honestly and completely the avenues available to him.

Agreed!!

All of the marriage based visas are intended to be used for immigration and that is not the intent here

Yeah..... that's true actually.....

Edited February 23, 2006 by MrMrsKnight

[desert_fox 32]

Right off the USCIS webpages. They recognize the fact that some ppl want to come here and leave after getting married within the 90 days. Once again the fox is right. I hate it some times being right all the time.

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If your fiancé(e) intends to live and work permanently in the United States, your fiancé(e) should apply to become a permanent resident after your marriage. (If your fiancé(e) does not intend to become a permanent resident after your marriage, your fiancé(e)/new spouse must leave the country within the 90-day original nonimmigrant admission.) For more information, please see How Do I Become a Legal Permanent Resident While in the United States?. Please note, your fiancé(e) will initially receive conditional permanent residence status for two years. Conditional permanent residency is granted when the marriage creating the relationship is less than two years old at the time of adjustment to permanent residence status. For more information, please see How Do I Remove the Conditions on Permanent Residence Based on Marriage?.

[zyggy 9]

Right off the USCIS webpages. They recognize the fact that some ppl want to come here and leave after getting married within the 90 days. Once again the fox is right. I hate it some times being right all the time.

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If your fiancé(e) intends to live and work permanently in the United States, your fiancé(e) should apply to become a permanent resident after your marriage. (If your fiancé(e) does not intend to become a permanent resident after your marriage, your fiancé(e)/new spouse must leave the country within the 90-day original nonimmigrant admission.) For more information, please see How Do I Become a Legal Permanent Resident While in the United States?. Please note, your fiancé(e) will initially receive conditional permanent residence status for two years. Conditional permanent residency is granted when the marriage creating the relationship is less than two years old at the time of adjustment to permanent residence status. For more information, please see How Do I Remove the Conditions on Permanent Residence Based on Marriage?.

Chuckle...

While it may be ok to cover the bases and file a I-129F in case things so south with the B2, I do not believe that the OP should deny themselves of the visa. Based on their circumstances, I think they have an excellent shot at getting it and it is definitely the more appropriate visa for this case.

If they were to go through with the K visa, the OP and his fiancee need to be explicit about the fact that they have no intention of immigrating to the US at that time and are using it to be able to travel to the US for the purpose of marrying in the US and then returning to China.

I don't not know how the Immigrant Visa unit of the consulate in Guangzhou would take such an admission and whether or not they would approve or deny the visa since the intent of the K1 visa is to remain in the US. If it weren't, it would be processed by Immigrant Visa Units, it would be processed by non-immigrant visa units and the fianancial support and medical provisions wouldn't be required.

Regardless, for the proposed intent of the OP, the B2 visa is the visa that meets their intent. They should apply for it at their closest consulate (doesn't have to be Guangzhou), with the necessary evidence of their intention and the OP's significant ties to China, and let the chips fall where they may.

Edited February 23, 2006 by zyggy

[john_and_marlene 162]

Right off the USCIS webpages. They recognize the fact that some ppl want to come here and leave after getting married within the 90 days. Once again the fox is right. I hate it some times being right all the time.

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If your fiancé(e) intends to live and work permanently in the United States, your fiancé(e) should apply to become a permanent resident after your marriage. (If your fiancé(e) does not intend to become a permanent resident after your marriage, your fiancé(e)/new spouse must leave the country within the 90-day original nonimmigrant admission.) For more information, please see How Do I Become a Legal Permanent Resident While in the United States?. Please note, your fiancé(e) will initially receive conditional permanent residence status for two years. Conditional permanent residency is granted when the marriage creating the relationship is less than two years old at the time of adjustment to permanent residence status. For more information, please see How Do I Remove the Conditions on Permanent Residence Based on Marriage?.

That's assuming you have already submitted a valid 129F applicaton and gained approval which requires the USC to reside in the U.S.

Sec. 214.2(k) Spouses, Fiancees, and Fiances of United States Citizens.

To be classified as a fiance or fiancee as defined in section 101(a)(15)(K)(i) of the Act, an alien must be the beneficiary of an approved visa petition filed on Form I - 129F. The petition with supporting documents shall be filed by the petitioner with the director having administrative jurisdiction over the place where the petitioner is residing in the United States.

I too have seen some on this board applying for K1 visas when they don't reside here. Often their first posts ask what they should use for a U.S. address.