AOS vs. tourist visa

[am1996 0]

We wanted to make a clarification on our earlier post.

We actually considered bringing Annie over here on the VWP, getting married, and living happily ever after. We consulted Lawyers and USCIS. We were told by both, that while it my be legal USCIS does not like it and that we could look at delays in approval for years. Due to the ramant abuse and fraud of non USC getting LPR, they tend to look at these situations harder.

Now, does that mean it is illegal, NO. However, once we knew these facts WE decided, in OUR case that we would rather do this and be beyond reproach.

Just to clarify, as many posters above have pointed out, you are certainly not allowed to "bring somebody over on VWP, get marrried and apply for AOS" if, at the time the foreigner was granted a non-immigrant visa (or, at the time the foreigner entered as a non-immigrant through VWP), the foreigner intended to immigrate to the US. Upon your inquiries, you were probably told that what you intended to do was illegal and that while you may've been able to get away with it, if discovered your wife would have been in a boatload of trouble.

Your situation was QUITE DIFFERENT from that of the people who obtain a non-immigrant visa while fully intending to fulfill all the visa requirements and whose circumstances change unexpectedly while they are in this country.

Edited September 25, 2006 by am1996

[aussiewench 9]

From reading through some of the more harsh replies to the idea of AOS via a tourist visa, I can't help feeling that there is a somewhat subjective air about them. Instead of 'good for you, I wish I'd done it that way' it seems to be more 'As I have to be apart from my spouse/fiance therefore so should you, and if I cannot make you do that then I'll call you all liars, freeloaders, lazy, illegal, etc'.

I find it hard to believe that someone on a tourist visa could come for a visit, find someone, fall in love, decide to get married, etc., all in the space of 90 days. I'd be horrified if one of my relatives married someone after knowing them such a short period of time; I knew my husband for four years before we got married; and I think marriages like that are just a recipe for disaster.

I see marrying on a tourist visa as violating the spirit, though perhaps not the letter, of the law.

That wipes my marriage out too then. What a load of crock. Only thing different with us is that we decided not to AOS.....not that we couldn't of.

[am1996 0]

From reading through some of the more harsh replies to the idea of AOS via a tourist visa, I can't help feeling that there is a somewhat subjective air about them. Instead of 'good for you, I wish I'd done it that way' it seems to be more 'As I have to be apart from my spouse/fiance therefore so should you, and if I cannot make you do that then I'll call you all liars, freeloaders, lazy, illegal, etc'.

I find it hard to believe that someone on a tourist visa could come for a visit, find someone, fall in love, decide to get married, etc., all in the space of 90 days. I'd be horrified if one of my relatives married someone after knowing them such a short period of time; I knew my husband for four years before we got married; and I think marriages like that are just a recipe for disaster.

I see marrying on a tourist visa as violating the spirit, though perhaps not the letter, of the law.

That wipes my marriage out too then. What a load of crock. Only thing different with us is that we decided not to AOS.....not that we couldn't of.

First, the duration of tourist visas is not limited to 90 days (the 90 day limit only applies to those using the VWP, which, even if you a citizen of a VWP country, you are not required to use).

Second, many people date and visit each other for months and years and properly use tourist visas to do so. There is no requirement under the law that AOS applicants from tourist visas must fall in love and get married in the same 90 day period. Why are some posters in this thread assuming that all those adjusting from tourist visas necessarily did all that in the same 90 day period?

Third, why are some posters lumping all non-immigrant visas together and assuming that each such visa is only valid for a short period of time? For instance, I know a person who's been in the US for years under O-1 (also a non-immigrant visa). While living here he fell in love, married a USC and proceeded to adjust his status to that of a permanent resident. Requiring an O-1 holder to leave the country and to then apply for an immigrant visa from outside the country would not only be asinine but would also would cause great harm to the US.

Edited September 25, 2006 by am1996

[diadromous mermaid 36]

From reading through some of the more harsh replies to the idea of AOS via a tourist visa, I can't help feeling that there is a somewhat subjective air about them. Instead of 'good for you, I wish I'd done it that way' it seems to be more 'As I have to be apart from my spouse/fiance therefore so should you, and if I cannot make you do that then I'll call you all liars, freeloaders, lazy, illegal, etc'.

I find it hard to believe that someone on a tourist visa could come for a visit, find someone, fall in love, decide to get married, etc., all in the space of 90 days. I'd be horrified if one of my relatives married someone after knowing them such a short period of time; I knew my husband for four years before we got married; and I think marriages like that are just a recipe for disaster.

I see marrying on a tourist visa as violating the spirit, though perhaps not the letter, of the law.

That wipes my marriage out too then. What a load of crock. Only thing different with us is that we decided not to AOS.....not that we couldn't of.

First, the duration of tourist visas is not limited to 90 days (the 90 day limit only applies to those using the VWP, which, even if you a citizen of a VWP country, you are not required to use).

Second, many people date and visit each other for months and years and properly use tourist visas to do so. There is no requirement under the law that AOS applicants from tourist visas must fall in love and get married in the same 90 day period. Why are some posters in this thread assuming that all those adjusting from tourist visas necessarily did all that in the same 90 day period?

Third, why are some posters lumping all non-immigrant visas together and assuming that each such visa is only valid for a short period of time? For instance, I know a person who's been in the US for years under O-1 (also a non-immigrant visa). While living here he fell in love, married a USC and proceeded to adjust his status to that of a permanent resident. Requiring an O-1 holder to leave the country and to then apply for an immigrant visa from outside the country would not only be asinine but would also would cause great harm to the US.

An O-1 is hardly a tourist visa, for one, and I think that was the basis of the discussion in this thread. Yes, it is a non-immigrant visa, but for a temporary stay, used by Aliens of extraordinary skills. But, I do agree that persons who do adjust from a tourist visa, may have met their SO on a former trip, though technically, once the relationship has developed to the point that marriage might be in the stars, any questions and their requisite answers at the POE wouold reveal that there is a love blossoming, if truth be known.

[am1996 0]

An O-1 is hardly a tourist visa, for one, and I think that was the basis of the discussion in this thread. Yes, it is a non-immigrant visa, but for a temporary stay, used by Aliens of extraordinary skills.

Yep, and the reason I mentioned it was because some posters lumped together all the non-immigrant visas (which include O-1's, for instance) and then criticized those who proceed to adjust their status from their visas. While is is possible to aruge that some non-immigrant visas are prone to AOS abuse (what to do about the abuse is an entirely different issue, however), arguments that all or most of the non-immigrant visa holders (which include holders of visa types such as O-1, etc...) seeking to adjust their status are likely to be committing visa fraud are asinine.

But, I do agree that persons who do adjust from a tourist visa, may have met their SO on a former trip, though technically, once the relationship has developed to the point that marriage might be in the stars, any questions and their requisite answers at the POE wouold reveal that there is a love blossoming, if truth be known.

Well, as I mentioned above, the fact that love is blossoming or that a couple is discussing marriage does NOT disqualify aliens from obtaining non-immigrant visas. As long as the alien is able to demonstrate that he/she fully intends to and is able to comply with the non-immigrant visa requirements during the particular trip in question, the alien qualifies for a non-immigrant visa, future immigration plans notwithstanding. Edited September 25, 2006 by am1996

[danae 0]

I'm against tourist visa AOSs and I've lived with my non-USC husband ever since we got married. We live in HIS country, not mine. I did my immigration to the UK the 100% legal, everything-up-front way...and that is how we are handling our US immigration.

I find it hard to believe that someone on a tourist visa could come for a visit, find someone, fall in love, decide to get married, etc., all in the space of 90 days. I'd be horrified if one of my relatives married someone after knowing them such a short period of time; I knew my husband for four years before we got married; and I think marriages like that are just a recipe for disaster.

Abuse of immigration laws irritates the hell out of me. I see marrying on a tourist visa as violating the spirit, though perhaps not the letter, of the law.

You are clearly confusing a tourist visa with the VWP. I was here for 10 months before my SO and I decided to get married. You fidn that hard to believe as well?? 'Oh youve known them for 5 months and 29 days- sorry you needed to know them for 6 months' See where the subjectivity comes in?

To assume that all marriages that occurred sooner than your 4 years to be a 'recipe for disaster' is nothing short of arrogant. Who the hell are you to judge? Yes I know your entitled to your opinion and everything, but Im also entitled to think that it stinks.

Sheesh.

[meauxna 15]

I find it hard to believe that someone on a tourist visa could come for a visit, find someone, fall in love, decide to get married, etc., all in the space of 90 days.

lol, you have trouble believing a lot of things!

I just laughed because I realized that I fall under your horrifying example. Since we've just passed the 5-year mark, when does the disaster part start?

PS: well, I did wait awhile for the actually getting married part

[homesick_american 1]

I'm against tourist visa AOSs and I've lived with my non-USC husband ever since we got married. We live in HIS country, not mine. I did my immigration to the UK the 100% legal, everything-up-front way...and that is how we are handling our US immigration.

I find it hard to believe that someone on a tourist visa could come for a visit, find someone, fall in love, decide to get married, etc., all in the space of 90 days. I'd be horrified if one of my relatives married someone after knowing them such a short period of time; I knew my husband for four years before we got married; and I think marriages like that are just a recipe for disaster.

Abuse of immigration laws irritates the hell out of me. I see marrying on a tourist visa as violating the spirit, though perhaps not the letter, of the law.

You are clearly confusing a tourist visa with the VWP. I was here for 10 months before my SO and I decided to get married. You fidn that hard to believe as well?? 'Oh youve known them for 5 months and 29 days- sorry you needed to know them for 6 months' See where the subjectivity comes in?

To assume that all marriages that occurred sooner than your 4 years to be a 'recipe for disaster' is nothing short of arrogant. Who the hell are you to judge? Yes I know your entitled to your opinion and everything, but Im also entitled to think that it stinks.

Sheesh.

*shrug* Come and tell me that on your 10 year anniversary. I don't mean to sound arrogant, but I do think that people coming over on short-term tourist visas then getting married is fishy, those cases should be examined extra-hard, and I think it is painfully obvious that there is a LOT of abuse going on there. Perhaps that wasn't the case with you. Bravo. I'm genuinely happy for you. However, just because your relationship and immigration journey is legitimate does not mean that every person's is.

Personally, I would like to see the USCIS examine AOS from tourist visas a lot more closely. Think whatever you want about that.

(Oh, and FWIW...every couple I've known who ran to the altar after a short period of time dating is now divorced. That's my reference base.)

I find it hard to believe that someone on a tourist visa could come for a visit, find someone, fall in love, decide to get married, etc., all in the space of 90 days.

lol, you have trouble believing a lot of things!

I just laughed because I realized that I fall under your horrifying example. Since we've just passed the 5-year mark, when does the disaster part start?

PS: well, I did wait awhile for the actually getting married part

Like I said to the other poster, I don't know anyone who dated only a short period of time before getting married whose marriage has lasted. My cousin's marriage was the last holdout; they knew each other four months before she got knocked up and they had a shotgun wedding. They've now separated, divorce proceedings have started. They lasted 2 years, 3 months.

I'm glad your marriage is working; I really am. With 50% of marriages ending in divorce nowadays, it's pretty easy to end up in the 'divorced' category. I think a lot of marriages end because the people involved didn't really know each other before tying the knot, which is why brief courtships and quick weddings concern me.

[am1996 0]

I'm glad your marriage is working; I really am. With 50% of marriages ending in divorce nowadays, it's pretty easy to end up in the 'divorced' category. I think a lot of marriages end because the people involved didn't really know each other before tying the knot, which is why brief courtships and quick weddings concern me.

I don't think that anyone out there is disputing the fact that people need to get to know each other before they get married. What we are saying, however, is that it is not the government's job to tell people whether they know each other well enough to get married.

For the purposes of this discussion, USCIS' only job is to determine whether a marriage is genuine or whether it was entered into for the sole or main purpose of qualifying for immigration benefits. While the length of time the petitioners have known each other certainly has a lot to do with that determination, as long as the marriage is determined to be genuine, all the other considerations that you bring up have nothing to do with USCIS' job of enforcing immigration laws.

[homesick_american 1]

I'm glad your marriage is working; I really am. With 50% of marriages ending in divorce nowadays, it's pretty easy to end up in the 'divorced' category. I think a lot of marriages end because the people involved didn't really know each other before tying the knot, which is why brief courtships and quick weddings concern me.

I don't think that anyone out there is disputing the fact that people need to get to know each other before they get married. What we are saying, however, is that it is not the government's job to tell people whether they know each other well enough to get married.

For the purposes of this discussion, USCIS' only job is to determine whether a marriage is genuine or whether it was entered into for the sole or main purpose of qualifying for immigration benefits. While the length of time the petitioners have known each other certainly has a lot to do with that determination, as long as the marriage is determined to be genuine, all the other considerations that you bring up have nothing to do with USCIS' job of enforcing immigration laws.

*shrug* Remind me to write my congressman.

[meauxna 15]

*shrug* Remind me to write my congressman.

I have a feeling you don't realize how rude your <shrugs> come off..and you use them a lot!

Apologies if you know exactly how rude it is.

[ChristinaM 0]

Christ on a stick, what a bunch of misinformed, prejudiced and downright ignorant people we have in this thread.

I was going to spend the time to write about the fact that many tourist adjusters do so under the guidance of USCIS themselves, why it's completely unjustifiable to pass judgement on the fate of anyone's marriage based on the time they knew each other before marrying, and why it's people like the judgemental on this thread who make it so difficult for people to get the correct information they need, but then I realised that with people this blinkered in their view, it would be a complete waste of my time - as it is a waste of Meauxna's and Aussiewench's, though they have more patience than I do.

[john_and_marlene 162]

I always get a chuckle when I see people trying to define the world in terms of fairness.

Here's a hint: Life is not fair. You might even like it less if it were.

[meauxna 15]

I always get a chuckle when I see people trying to define the world in terms of fairness.

Here's a hint: Life is not fair. You might even like it less if it were.

heheh.. looks like it's time to crack out my old .sig

[homesick_american 1]

Honestly; marry whoever you want, I really don't give a ######. I also don't really give a ###### if you get divorced, since you guys have been pretty rude to me when all I have done is voice an opinion that you don't agree with.

Grow up, please.