What if abortion became a non-issue?

[scandal 951]

It's fairly apparent that no one who responded on this thread actually read David Frum's piece in the OP. I can't say that I read every article posted here, that's for sure. But if I post in a thread I usually like to at least know what the thread is about, no?

The topic is abortion, yes. But it's actually a comparison to the temperance movement, the passionate debates of a century ago between 'wets' and 'drys', and the similarities between the effects of the 'drys' on politicians and politics of that era and the anti-abortion movements of today.

It's worth reading, imho.

"It is my opinion that the saloonkeeper is worse than a thief and a murderer. The ordinary thief steals only your money, but the saloonkeeper steals your honor and your character. The ordinary murderer takes your life, but the saloonkeeper murders your soul."

That's from the famous "booze sermon" of Billy Sunday, the great popular preacher of the 1910s and 1920s. Thousands of such passionate speeches -- millions more passionate words -- were uttered by names now brown with history: William Jennings Bryan, Carrie Nation, Elizabeth Cady Stanton. It was not all talk. Ferocious legislative battles were bought to prohibit alcohol at the county, state and then ultimately national level. The great scholar of American politics, Judith Shklar, estimated to her graduate students that through the long run of American history, more elections at more levels of government have turned on alcohol than any other issue, including slavery.

And, here is the comparison to abortion politics in the GOP today:

Politicians hated the alcohol issue for the same reason they now dislike the abortion issue: It sliced apart the existing party structure.

The Republicans could not win a national majority without the support of Protestant immigrants from Germany in cities like Milwaukee and St. Louis. The Democrats could not win without the enthusiastic support of Irish Catholics in New York and New England. City-dwelling Germans and Irish intensely resented attempts of their country-dwelling neighbors to regulate their behavior for them.

And, some thoughts on the fate of abortion politics ...

And yet a century later ... the issue [temperance] is dead. Vanished. Forgotten. What happened?

Three things.

1. ...

2. ...

3. ...

Can we imagine such a fate for the abortion issue?

Curious? Scroll to the top and read it

[dalegg 143]

I kind of believe that it would hurt the GOP a lot. That's why Democrats should support repealing Roe v Wade. Make this a state issue and Republicans don't have that automatic vote anymore.

Anyone in a bible belt state who wants an abortion can just hop over to Florida or the next closest state that still allows it.

[scandal 951]

That's why Democrats should support repealing Roe v Wade.

How does one go about repealing a Supreme Court decision?

[dalegg 143]

How does one go about repealing a Supreme Court decision?

By nominating judges who support that.

[mawilson 2,133]

By nominating judges who support that.

You'd have to bump off the existing judges first

[scandal 951]

By nominating judges who support that.

You don't understand how this works, do you?

(stare decisis)

[dalegg 143]

You don't understand how this works, do you?

(stare decisis)

Were you born this rude? Do me a favor, don't ever reply to one of my posts again, and I promise to do the same for you.

You'd have to bump off the existing judges first

Well, I think as hard as some of you are trying not to, you get it.

Edited October 25, 2011 by dalegg

[scandal 951]

Were you born this rude? Do me a favor, don't ever reply to one of my posts again, and I promise to do the same for you.

I apologize. You are right, that was phrased insensitively. I retract my wording.

It is true that settled law is usually respected by the Court and not overturned merely by a changing of the guard on the bench . This is the principle of stare decisis.

But there was no need for me to be arrogant in addressing you regarding this.

I think the temperament of this site and the arrogance of many of the posters on here has a way of desensitizing. I've been called a socialist, a moron, a Zionist terrorist and I don't know what else on this site. I can assure you I've never gotten nor expect to receive an apology from anyone here.

That's just how people seem to roll here, but it's no excuse for my rudeness.

If you don't want to interact with me again I respect that, and won't address you again.

[Danno 1,228]

I think as long as the President has control or influence over funding Abortions ... and nominating Justices which will fine tune the parameters if laws controlling it.... will always be an issue in politics.

If it is so meaningless, or nearly so, how did the passage of Obamas Healthcare legislation hinge on his promise to one Rep, concerning this very thing?

[scandal 951]

If it is so meaningless, or nearly so, how did the passage of Obamas Healthcare legislation hinge on his promise to one Rep, concerning this very thing?

As I understood Frum's point, it's not that the issue of abortion is meaningless. On the contrary, it's that we may be reaching a point in our national history where it's a settled issue in our national politics and no longer a litmus test issue for candidates for higher office.

His analogy to Temperance is that what alcohol was to the Drys 100 years ago, abortion has been to our times.

And the Temperance movement culminated at its peak in Prohibition - which after a decade was repealed as an abysmal failure, the Drys permanently beaten back and the rest of us (the 'Wets' that like a drink now and again) having our way.

Is abortion going to follow the same trajectory? I don't know, neither does Frum, but it's an interesting historical parallel.

[kytwell 179]

I hope it does become a non-issue. Too much time arguing and money wasted on what should be a private matter. I would like to see some of the inherent unfairness(ex.1- a wife can get an abortion without notifying her husband, but a husband needs his wife's consent to get a vasectomy) in the process worked out though, prior to it becoming a non-issue.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

If abortion became a non-issue, the GOP would only have two justifications left to exist. Opposing same sex marriage and worshipping at the altar of capital.

[slim 1,530]

If abortion became a non-issue, the GOP would only have two justifications left to exist. Opposing same sex marriage and worshipping at the altar of capital.

The same sex stuff will be gone in another 10-20 years. It's much too prevalent now and once the old farts die off, the younger ones will welcome it as "an inevitable part of life." Heck, you'll probably see gay elephants at some point.

Worshipping at the altar of capital will never cease because that is where the magic happens!

[kytwell 179]

Opposing same sex marriage

Should be a non-issue too, along with Second Amendment rights. Maybe they'd(GOP) get back to what they claim they are for: smaller/limited gov't, fiscal restraint, National Defense, tough criminal laws, etc, etc. BTW, the Dems worship capital too.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The same sex stuff will be gone in another 10-20 years.

And with it the GOP as we know it.