Rich People Create Jobs!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The main driver for job creation is demand. Always has been, always will be. A few will never create enough demand to employ the many. The many, on the other hand, can create that kind of demand. Look at the emerging economies. More people making more money buying more goods thus creating more demand which creates more jobs for more people creating more demand and so on. It has always worked this way and will never work the other way around. Nobody creates a single job because he has money - save the lawn service and the house cleaning crew. People create jobs because they need help producing a good or service for which demand exists. It's very, very simple.

[mawilson 2,133]

How ironic that a person whose job would not exist without regulations b!tches about regulations. Biting the hand that feeds you.

So regulations... create jobs?

Wow, this is probably the most retarded thing you've ever posted since the "deficits are good for us" thread.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

I've got to get going soon. A homeless guys wants me to install new windows in his cardboard box.

It's 2 stories!!!!!

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

I've got to get going soon. A homeless guys wants me to install new windows in his cardboard box.

It's 2 stories!!!!!

In a good market who needs more windows? The middle class or the top tier. Its going to be the middle class.

For the past 2 years the upper market have been strong. Notice how its not really doing much to the economy?

Edited October 23, 2011 by Sousuke

[one...two...tree 2,762]

So regulations... create jobs?

Ask the retailers what back-to-school means to them? Or ask an auto shop that specializes in the changing and disposal of oil, or tires? Aluminum recycling, building inspectors/appraisers, police officers, the list goes on and on. Whatever argument you might make about regulations hurting people's pocket books, the fact remains that they can and do create a market that otherwise would not exist.

[mawilson 2,133]

Ask the retailers what back-to-school means to them? Or ask an auto shop that specializes in the changing and disposal of oil, or tires? Aluminum recycling, building inspectors/appraisers, police officers, the list goes on and on. Whatever argument you might make about regulations hurting people's pocket books, the fact remains that they can and do create a market that otherwise would not exist.

Of course the market will find a way to deal with stupidity, doesn't mean we need more stupidity.

For example, compliance with the tax code costs Americans $200 billion and over six billion

hours each year. It also "creates jobs" for hundreds of thousands of accountants who file

80 million returns annually.

If we scrapped the tax code for a simpler one, people could fill out their tax forms easily and

those accountants will lose their jobs.

Does it mean we should complicate the tax code some more to create more jobs for accountants?

Come on, man, use your brains.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Of course the market will find a way to deal with stupidity, doesn't mean we need more stupidity.

For example, compliance with the tax code costs Americans $200 billion and over six billion

hours each year. It also "creates jobs" for hundreds of thousands of accountants who file

80 million returns annually.

If we scrapped the tax code for a simpler one, people could fill out their tax forms easily and

those accountants will lose their jobs.

Does it mean we should complicate the tax code some more to create more jobs for accountants?

Come on, man, use your brains.

Now you're changing the argument. The argument has been made repeatedly by Right Wingers that regulations take away jobs. I pointed out that that is not accurate, which you just acknowledged. See, it's not an honest argument that Right Wingers make - they speak in absolutes, like regulations take away jobs, taxes inhibit economic growth, etc., etc. We can argue over the merits of specific regulations, but to make a blanket statement that regulations across the board take away jobs is intellectually dishonest. That's what the GOP's been doing with the EPA. Many of the leaders in the Republican Party want to see the EPA be dismantled and refuse to acknowledge any benefit to protecting environmental quality.

[mawilson 2,133]

Now you're changing the argument. The argument has been made repeatedly by Right Wingers that regulations take away jobs.

It's a net loss - some jobs are created but more jobs are lost and/or everyone is less efficient as a result.

The EPA is a bit of a red herring. Clearly we need clean water and clean air.

[웃 910]

Of course the market will find a way to deal with stupidity, doesn't mean we need more stupidity.

For example, compliance with the tax code costs Americans $200 billion and over six billion

hours each year. It also "creates jobs" for hundreds of thousands of accountants who file

80 million returns annually.

If we scrapped the tax code for a simpler one, people could fill out their tax forms easily and

those accountants will lose their jobs.

Does it mean we should complicate the tax code some more to create more jobs for accountants?

Come on, man, use your brains.

You should only have an accountant if you are in the top 2%.

So really only maybe 6 million people should be using the services of the 1.2 million accountants. Roughly 1 accountant for every 6 people.

Everyone else can use Turbo Tax, be done in 5 minutes, and maximize their returns. There are way too many backyard accountants that charge $50 that will have you sending money to the government. You use turbo tax and you end up with a $600 refund. Mine (wife's) was about $1200 state/fed last year and I know if I used the backyard accountant I used in '08 I'd be paying $100 to the government instead of receiving $1200.

Big difference.

Why are they filing 80 million returns when only 6 million people have complex returns?

Answer is there are 74 million morons out there. This is an example of the free market failing miserably!

Turbo Tax has it down to a science. Plug and chug. Put your social security number in. All your numbers pop up. Make your minor adjustments. Answer a couple yes/no questions. Done in 5 minutes.

Edited October 23, 2011 by Lord Infamous

[one...two...tree 2,762]

You should only have an accountant if you are in the top 2%.

So really only maybe 6 million people should be using the services of the 1.2 million accountants. Roughly 1 account for every 6 people.

Everyone else can use Turbo Tax, be done in 5 minutes, and maximize their returns. There are way too many backyard accountants that charge $50 that will have you sending money to the government. You use turbo tax and you end up with a $600 refund. Mine (wife's) was about $1200 state/fed last year and I know if I used the backyard accountant I used in '08 I'd be paying $100 to the government instead of receiving $1200.

Big difference.

Why are they filing 80 million returns when only 6 million people have complex returns?

Answer is there are 74 million morons out there. This is an example of the free market failing miserably!

Turbo Tax has it down to a science. Plug and chug. Put your social security number in. All your numbers pop up. Make your minor adjustments. Answer a couple yes/no questions. Done in 5 minutes.

Exactly. Another example is building inspectors for residential property. The cost for the inspection is mere chump change in comparison to the amount of the mortgage, let alone the fees, yet it provides a value for both the buyers and sellers as well as creates a job market for inspectors.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

How ironic that a person whose job would not exist without regulations b!tches about regulations. Biting the hand that feeds you.

You are also assuming that there would be NO safety procedures if it were not for regulations. This is not true.

This stems from the flawed concept of beginning with government. For example there is NO electrical regulations in Vermont, yet we choose to follow the NEC as put out by the NFPA, both are industry organizations

The vast majority of time at my job is consumed with complying with industry and employer policies, all private and all to protect the integrity of the work.

On the other hand, if they did not need me they could charge the customer less money. My personal stake in it, as you can see, is not important.

[mawilson 2,133]

Why are they filing 80 million returns when only 6 million people have complex returns?

Answer is there are 74 million morons out there. This is an example of the free market failing miserably!

Why is the free market failing? If you're a moron, the market has an accountant for you.

[웃 910]

Why is the free market failing? If you're a moron, the market has an accountant for you.

I guess the free market is less efficient would be a better choice of words.

For example there is are NO electrical regulations in Vermont, yet we choose to follow the NEC as put out by the NFPA, both are industry organizations

Vermont Regulations

Updated: 6/1/2011

• Adopted Code. 2011 National Electrical Code, effective June 1, 2011
• Adoption type: State-wide. All local jurisdictions are required to adopt and enforce the code, without amendments.

870 Pages of regulations, better study up!

Edited October 23, 2011 by Lord Infamous

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Now you're changing the argument. The argument has been made repeatedly by Right Wingers that regulations take away jobs. I pointed out that that is not accurate, which you just acknowledged. See, it's not an honest argument that Right Wingers make - they speak in absolutes, like regulations take away jobs, taxes inhibit economic growth, etc., etc. We can argue over the merits of specific regulations, but to make a blanket statement that regulations across the board take away jobs is intellectually dishonest. That's what the GOP's been doing with the EPA. Many of the leaders in the Republican Party want to see the EPA be dismantled and refuse to acknowledge any benefit to protecting environmental quality.

You assume that certain positions would not exist without government regulation. Not true. For one, federal regulations are loosely enforced and not enforced at all for illegal aliens. For them we look the other way. Don't ask for ID.

Most of the jobs created by a regulation are those of enforcement and those are typicallt government jobs. We are better off with a person unemployed than working for the government, it is cheaper.

As far as creating jobs in the private sector? No. Contractors have a certain amount they can spend in a competitive environment on compliance and that is taking away from another job. I would say it is a net -0-. Without me, for example, my employer could afford another carpenter or 2 that produces income, billable hours, for the business. My job on the other hand is an administrative expense, except for some design work I still do, not much, my salary is allocated and expensed.

FORCING an employer to hire people for compliance is not "creating jobs" it is re-allocating manpower. They cannot just pull money out of thin air to afford employees for compliance. It has to come from someONE else, by definition. It could be from not hiring a tradesman, it could come from dividends to stockholders, or from reduced wage increases to employees or reduced benefits or reduced contribution to benefits such as medical insurance, or the customer in some cases. But it is definitely taking water from one end of the pool and dumping it in the other end.

The recent lead paint regulations that have gone into affect for any residential units built before 1975 have drastically increased rates for working in that type of building and many contractors have simply pulled right out of that. Less competiton means less people doing the work and higher costs.

To imagine that employers just whip up money to pay for additional employees to comply with regulations is simply ludicrous.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I guess the free market is less efficient would be a better choice of words.

Vermont Regulations

Updated: 6/1/2011

• Adopted Code. 2011 National Electrical Code, effective June 1, 2011
• Adoption type: State-wide. All local jurisdictions are required to adopt and enforce the code, without amendments.

870 Pages of regulations, better study up!

As I said. Vermont has no regulations of its own. We use the national electric code. That is produced by the NFPA. NFPA is a private, non government, organization. I am fully aware of the NEC.

Good grief.

Edited October 23, 2011 by Gary and Alla