Pat Buchanan declares defeat

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

What do you mean "we"?

My family hit the shores of New Amsterdam aka New York in 1644. So anyone that was here before the Italians started hitting the shores in massive amounts of numbers. Southern Italians to be honest. The northern ones pretty much stayed home. I'm guessing that was sometime in the 1880's - 1920's.

Edited October 19, 2011 by Why_Me

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Let's go back a little further than the 1960's, shall we?

The Founding Fathers and Islam

Library Papers Show Early Tolerance for Muslim Faith

By JAMES H. HUTSON

With more than 55 million items, the Library's Manuscript Division contains the papers of 23 presidents, from George Washington to Calvin Coolidge. In this article, Manuscript Division Chief James Hutson draws upon the papers of Washington, Thomas Jefferson and other primary documents to discuss the relationship of Islam to the new nation.

Many Muslims feel unwelcome in the United States in the aftermath of September 11, according to newspaper reports. Anecdotal evidence suggests that substantial numbers of Americans view their Muslim neighbors as an alien presence outside the limits of American life and history. While other minorities—African Americans, Hispanics and Native Americans—were living within the boundaries of the present United States from the earliest days of the nation, Muslims are perceived to have had no part in the American experience.

Readers may be surprised to learn that there may have been hundreds, perhaps thousands, of Muslims in the United States in 1776—imported as slaves from areas of Africa where Islam flourished. Although there is no evidence that the Founders were aware of the religious convictions of their bondsmen, it is clear that the Founding Fathers thought about the relationship of Islam to the new nation and were prepared to make a place for it in the republic.

In his seminal Letter on Toleration (1689), John Locke insisted that Muslims and all others who believed in God be tolerated in England. Campaigning for religious freedom in Virginia, Jefferson followed Locke, his idol, in demanding recognition of the religious rights of the "Mahamdan," the Jew and the "pagan." Supporting Jefferson was his old ally, Richard Henry Lee, who had made a motion in Congress on June 7, 1776, that the American colonies declare independence. "True freedom," Lee asserted, "embraces the Mahomitan and the Gentoo (Hindu) as well as the Christian religion."

In his autobiography, Jefferson recounted with satisfaction that in the struggle to pass his landmark Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom (1786), the Virginia legislature "rejected by a great majority" an effort to limit the bill's scope "in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan." George Washington suggested a way for Muslims to "obtain proper relief" from a proposed Virginia bill, laying taxes to support Christian worship. On another occasion, the first president declared that he would welcome "Mohometans" to Mount Vernon if they were "good workmen" (see page 96). Officials in Massachusetts were equally insistent that their influential Constitution of 1780 afforded "the most ample liberty of conscience … to Deists, Mahometans, Jews and Christians," a point that Chief Justice Theophilus Parsons resoundingly affirmed in 1810.

Toward Islam itself the Founding generation held differing views. An evangelical Baptist spokesman denounced "Mahomet" as a "hateful" figure who, unlike the meek and gentle Jesus, spread his religion at the point of a sword. A Presbyterian preacher in rural South Carolina dusted off Grotius' 17th century reproach that the "religion of Mahomet originated in arms, breathes nothing but arms, is propagated by arms." Other, more influential observers had a different view of Muslims. In 1783, the president of Yale College, Ezra Stiles, cited a study showing that "Mohammadan" morals were "far superior to the Christian." Another New Englander believed that the "moral principles that were inculcated by their teachers had a happy tendency to render them good members of society." The reference here, as other commentators made clear, was to Islam's belief, which it shared with Christianity, in a "future state of rewards and punishments," a system of celestial carrots and sticks which the Founding generation considered necessary to guarantee good social conduct.

George Washington's 1785 letter wherein he declared that he would welcome "Mohometans" to Mount Vernon if they were "good workmen."

"A Mahometan," wrote a Boston newspaper columnist, "is excited to the practice of good morals in hopes that after the resurrection he shall enjoy the beautiful girls of paradise to all eternity; he is afraid to commit murder, adultery and theft, lest he should be cast into hell, where he must drink scalding water and the scum of the damned." Benjamin Rush, the Pennsylvania signer of the Declaration of Independence and friend of Adams and Jefferson, applauded this feature of Islam, asserting that he had "rather see the opinions of Confucius or Mohammed inculcated upon our youth than see them grow up wholly devoid of a system of religious principles."

That ordinary citizens shared these positive views is demonstrated by a petition of a group of citizens of Chesterfield County, Va., to the state assembly, Nov. 14, 1785: "Let Jews, Mehometans and Christians of every denomination enjoy religious liberty…thrust them not out now by establishing the Christian religion lest thereby we become our own enemys and weaken this infant state. It is mens labour in our Manufactories, their services by sea and land that aggrandize our Country and not their creeds. Chain your citizens to the state by their Interest. Let Jews, Mehometans, and Christians of every denomination find their advantage in living under your laws."

The Founders of this nation explicitly included Islam in their vision of the future of the republic. Freedom of religion, as they conceived it, encompassed it. Adherents of the faith were, with some exceptions, regarded as men and women who would make law-abiding, productive citizens. Far from fearing Islam, the Founders would have incorporated it into the fabric of American life.

--------------------------

James H. Hutson is chief of the Manuscript Division and the author of many books, including, most recently, "Religion and the Founding of the American Republic," 1998.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Here's one I disagree with. In 1998 Pat Robertson warned after Orlando city officials voted to fly rainbow flags from city lampposts during an annual Gay Day event at Disney World, "I don't think I'd be waving those flags in God's face if I were you. . . . [A] condition like this will bring about the destruction of your nation. It'll bring about terrorist bombs, it'll bring earthquakes, tornadoes, and possibly a meteor."

Pat BUCHANAN not Pat Robertson. Good grief.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Even based on your lis with no sourcing....he wasn't off by much.

He missed the mark on each and every one of these items. None of this happened during the first 100 days of the administration and much of it will never happen. Want a source? Google is your friend.

Lets make this easy.

Pat makes several points in his book, lets see who disagrees.

1. The decline of Christian faith has added to a mass decline cohesive sense of what right and wrong even means.
   
2. THe GOP is the only party which has partially resisted the slide to socialism, when the demographics of TX are tipped by immigration, the GOP is finished. With an ever growing number of people depending on the gov and with the flood of immigrants which have a higher dependency of the Gov, the votes for more and more socialism will be unstoppable.
   
3. Multiculturalism has thwarted the assimilation of millions, we can no longer agree, on language, culture, holidays, national heros, civics and faith, we will rapidly make a joke of "one nation indivisible".
   
4. California has been the test lab. As California has grown in population in the last 2 decades, Whites have fled in unparalleled numbers, taking with them the tax dollars, leaving behind a huge welfare state for the state to drown in. We laugh at California but they are simply ahead of the rest of the nation by a few decades.
   
5. With each passing decade, more people either live off the Gov't or work for the Government, At the same time we have embarked on trade policies which have destroyed huge sectors of manufacturing and created unreal trade deficits.
   
6. Our Government can no longer do even the basic things like protect our borders, win our wars, protect our job market or balance our budget .
   

On which points is he off?

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 - all of them, really.

[Danno 1,228]

Perhaps you and some others have lost sight of the purpose of the book.

It is not a book which suggests "We can save the Country".

To the contrary, it points out between Birth rates, cultural shifts and Immigration the Country has already changed and will never be the same again.

It simply for tells what is further to come.

Whites in the USA or any other country are not even producing enough children to replace themselves, Christianity while growing in third world countries has all but left Europe and has seen decline in the US...this change is nearly inevitable.

[Danno 1,228]

Let's go back a little further than the 1960's, shall we?

The Founding Fathers and Islam

Library Papers Show Early Tolerance for Muslim Faith

By JAMES H. HUTSON

With more than 55 million items, the Library's Manuscript Division contains the papers of 23 presidents, from George Washington to Calvin Coolidge. In this article, Manuscript Division Chief James Hutson draws upon the papers of Washington, Thomas Jefferson and other primary documents to discuss the relationship of Islam to the new nation.

Many Muslims feel unwelcome in the United States in the aftermath of September 11, according to newspaper reports. Anecdotal evidence suggests that substantial numbers of Americans view their Muslim neighbors as an alien presence outside the limits of American life and history. While other minorities—African Americans, Hispanics and Native Americans—were living within the boundaries of the present United States from the earliest days of the nation, Muslims are perceived to have had no part in the American experience.

Readers may be surprised to learn that there may have been hundreds, perhaps thousands, of Muslims in the United States in 1776—imported as slaves from areas of Africa where Islam flourished. Although there is no evidence that the Founders were aware of the religious convictions of their bondsmen, it is clear that the Founding Fathers thought about the relationship of Islam to the new nation and were prepared to make a place for it in the republic.

In his seminal Letter on Toleration (1689), John Locke insisted that Muslims and all others who believed in God be tolerated in England. Campaigning for religious freedom in Virginia, Jefferson followed Locke, his idol, in demanding recognition of the religious rights of the "Mahamdan," the Jew and the "pagan." Supporting Jefferson was his old ally, Richard Henry Lee, who had made a motion in Congress on June 7, 1776, that the American colonies declare independence. "True freedom," Lee asserted, "embraces the Mahomitan and the Gentoo (Hindu) as well as the Christian religion."

In his autobiography, Jefferson recounted with satisfaction that in the struggle to pass his landmark Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom (1786), the Virginia legislature "rejected by a great majority" an effort to limit the bill's scope "in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan." George Washington suggested a way for Muslims to "obtain proper relief" from a proposed Virginia bill, laying taxes to support Christian worship. On another occasion, the first president declared that he would welcome "Mohometans" to Mount Vernon if they were "good workmen" (see page 96). Officials in Massachusetts were equally insistent that their influential Constitution of 1780 afforded "the most ample liberty of conscience … to Deists, Mahometans, Jews and Christians," a point that Chief Justice Theophilus Parsons resoundingly affirmed in 1810.

Toward Islam itself the Founding generation held differing views. An evangelical Baptist spokesman denounced "Mahomet" as a "hateful" figure who, unlike the meek and gentle Jesus, spread his religion at the point of a sword. A Presbyterian preacher in rural South Carolina dusted off Grotius' 17th century reproach that the "religion of Mahomet originated in arms, breathes nothing but arms, is propagated by arms." Other, more influential observers had a different view of Muslims. In 1783, the president of Yale College, Ezra Stiles, cited a study showing that "Mohammadan" morals were "far superior to the Christian." Another New Englander believed that the "moral principles that were inculcated by their teachers had a happy tendency to render them good members of society." The reference here, as other commentators made clear, was to Islam's belief, which it shared with Christianity, in a "future state of rewards and punishments," a system of celestial carrots and sticks which the Founding generation considered necessary to guarantee good social conduct.

George Washington's 1785 letter wherein he declared that he would welcome "Mohometans" to Mount Vernon if they were "good workmen."

"A Mahometan," wrote a Boston newspaper columnist, "is excited to the practice of good morals in hopes that after the resurrection he shall enjoy the beautiful girls of paradise to all eternity; he is afraid to commit murder, adultery and theft, lest he should be cast into hell, where he must drink scalding water and the scum of the damned." Benjamin Rush, the Pennsylvania signer of the Declaration of Independence and friend of Adams and Jefferson, applauded this feature of Islam, asserting that he had "rather see the opinions of Confucius or Mohammed inculcated upon our youth than see them grow up wholly devoid of a system of religious principles."

That ordinary citizens shared these positive views is demonstrated by a petition of a group of citizens of Chesterfield County, Va., to the state assembly, Nov. 14, 1785: "Let Jews, Mehometans and Christians of every denomination enjoy religious liberty…thrust them not out now by establishing the Christian religion lest thereby we become our own enemys and weaken this infant state. It is mens labour in our Manufactories, their services by sea and land that aggrandize our Country and not their creeds. Chain your citizens to the state by their Interest. Let Jews, Mehometans, and Christians of every denomination find their advantage in living under your laws."

The Founders of this nation explicitly included Islam in their vision of the future of the republic. Freedom of religion, as they conceived it, encompassed it. Adherents of the faith were, with some exceptions, regarded as men and women who would make law-abiding, productive citizens. Far from fearing Islam, the Founders would have incorporated it into the fabric of American life.

--------------------------

James H. Hutson is chief of the Manuscript Division and the author of many books, including, most recently, "Religion and the Founding of the American Republic," 1998.

I tolerate my neighbors dog at midnight.

Seriously who are you trying to kid, America is a satellite of the White European model.

Does anyone really think for a minute..... had African or Middle easterners or Asians discovered and planted a nation here it would look or be anything like what we have today?

Edited October 20, 2011 by Danno

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Let's see, I'm watching rioting in Europe over failing economies, and you and Pat are saying that America is falling apart. Are you really proud of what you have today?

American has always been a multicultural/multiracial nation. The mythology you hold that White Christians built it and others showed up later to take advantage of it is not only laughable, but it makes me sad for you for believing it.

I tolerate my neighbors dog at midnight.

Seriously who are you trying to kid, America is a satellite of the White European model.

Does anyone really think for a minute..... had African or Middle easterners or Asians discovered and planted a nation here it would look or be anything like what we have today?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Whites in the USA or any other country are not even producing enough children to replace themselves...

And those whites that do reproduce now often produce mixed race babies. Oh, the horror. Well, to you and Pat, perhaps. I happen to love my little one. Even if you and Pat don't appreciate her existence because she isn't all white. What can I say to folks like you and Pat? You're a dying species.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

The country will never be the same as what? Mostly White, racist and openly sexist? No thanks. I don't miss those days at all.

Perhaps you and some others have lost sight of the purpose of the book.

It is not a book which suggests "We can save the Country".

To the contrary, it points out between Birth rates, cultural shifts and Immigration the Country has already changed and will never be the same again.

It simply for tells what is further to come.

Whites in the USA or any other country are not even producing enough children to replace themselves, Christianity while growing in third world countries has all but left Europe and has seen decline in the US...this change is nearly inevitable.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The country will never be the same as what? Mostly White, racist and openly sexist? No thanks. I don't miss those days at all.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Pat Buchanan declares defeat

Better that he would declare retirement

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

The country will never be the same as what? Mostly White, racist and openly sexist? No thanks. I don't miss those days at all.

Your correct. I think we should be more open and advanced. How about we have our women cover their heads and make sure they only marry Muslims? What a great idea! Think of it. We could be one of those advanced, modern and religiously tolerant MENA countries.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Your correct. I think we should be more open and advanced. How about we have our women cover their heads and make sure they only marry Muslims? What a great idea! Think of it. We could be one of those advanced, modern and religiously tolerant MENA countries.

Are you talking to me? I'm Muslim, don't cover my head and was married to a Christian for nearly 30 years until he died. You must be referring to unemployed Whites who only marry Whites and who post pictures of nearly naked women on the net while broadcasting tales of exercising their imaginary sexual prowess on low-class women in pick up trucks. That's pretty advanced and modern.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Sofiyya

[Danno 1,228]

The country will never be the same as what? Mostly White, racist and openly sexist? No thanks. I don't miss those days at all.

Why don't you teach us what cultures and countries were so superior at the time?

Muslims were KING of the slave trade, care to share with us when slavery was out lawed in Those countries or shall I?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

It doesn't say anything good that you don't see his bigotry. I believe you even admire it.

There was a lot to applaud about the Dixiecrats, but racism wasn't one of them. They had the right cause (limited government and states' rights) for the wrong reason (they wanted to keep segregation). When Communists are trying to overthrow the government like they were in the sixties and seventies, you find powerful allies anywhere you can, and you get Ronald Reagan.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Crusty Old Perv