TX HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS MADE TO RECITE MEXICAN NATIONAL ANTHEM, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE

[The_Dude 1,142]

Dude, seriously, I understand your naivete in this....but seriously...wake up.

You are quite laughable.

Oh no, excuse me I have to ask you this then. Are you serious? My daughter attend to a middle school here in Chicago, IL (specifically in downtown) and in her Spanish class it's everything related to Mexico and nothing else but. The principal, the staff and 80% of the teachers have a Mexican background. So, if I'm right Illinois is quite far from the Mexico border right? Of course there is Mexican agenda here obviously; unfortunately a lot of people don't want to see that.

I come from a Hispanic, Spanish speaker country in South America, I can tell you that you have no idea the stuff I have seen, read and heard from Mexicans. Only I can tell you that many of them have a lot of kids for not very lovely reason which you know are U.S. citizens. And I assure you they won’t stop having them. 50 more years and you’ll see how different things will be here in the U.S. (language, culture, values).

Again, If they want to teach Spanish there are plenty of Hispanic countries besides Mexico, and starting for Spain that is the country

where Spanish was originated.

Are you aware that your own city of Chicago is comprised of nearly 20% mexicans, and over 26% hispanic overall? I wonder if you are aware of the hispanic populations in Texas either. I would imagine in Chicago they teach about Polish heritage as well as many others. It's not a bad thing to learn about other cultures. Simply learning about the postives of a different culture is not the same as taking a dump on the American flag. It is what it puports to be, education. A staff having 80% hispanic background is bad? You say that as if it should be a quality that precludes them from teaching at our schools.

I have no idea what you've seen? No, I haven't, because I'm not you. But I have spent significant time abroad. I was an exchange student in Mexico, Argentina and Spain at various points in my life. I have also have family in Spain and have travelled to many other countries.

[웃 910]

In my real life experience I learned nothing about different countries and cultures in Spanish 1 and Spanish 2 in high school.....And nothing about different cultures/countries in Spanish 101, Spanish 102, Spanish 201, Spanish 202 (first 4 semesters in college). You just learn to build vocabulary and grammar.

Then I got to Spanish 301....And Spanish 302....One book but two semesters...Each chapter starts with one of the 20 different Spanish speaking countries. We learned about the history, the foods they make, politics, demographics, etc. It was a really good book.

Then 305 was just on business.

351 was on Masterpieces in Spanish Literature (all on literature from Spain).

342 was Latin American Literature.....From various countries excluding Spain.

Then in graduate school it was about 4 Spanish business classes. Each chapter talks about 1 country - their GDP, unemployment rates, literacy rates, capitals, number of airports, TVs per 1000, % of roads paved, etc...Matter of fact my professor wrote the book and it sells in about 70 countries.

There was no bias towards Mexico at all.

My graduate prof. was Canadian (spoke English/French/Portuguese/Spanish and a few more).

My undergraduate professors (mainly 2) were from Argentina and Spain.

I had one native Mexican professor in community college - but all we learned was vocabulary (Spanish 102).

Edited October 18, 2011 by Lord Infamous

[Misha & Ira 113]

You are quite laughable.

Laughable to you maybe....but I am also right. And you really have no idea who you are talking to and have very little to base your opionion.

I grew up in Southern California...spent the first thirty years of my life there. My paternal grandmother's name is Consuela Becerra. I have familial ties to Mexico, the difference is my family moved here legally in the 1920s. So...enough of that.

If you really believe that the Mexicans have forgotten that they lost a war to the US and much territory that they still consider to be theirs, you are not only naive, but dangerously so. This is the real world. Again I tell you, wake up.

[MyLittlePony 340]

Sounds like you need to learn to speak English before they do.

A

Hahaha be more original I can if I want to but this is my style just to amuse.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Laughable to you maybe....but I am also right. And you really have no idea who you are talking to and have very little to base your opionion.

I grew up in Southern California...spent the first thirty years of my life there. My paternal grandmother's name is Consuela Becerra. I have familial ties to Mexico, the difference is my family moved here legally in the 1920s. So...enough of that.

If you really believe that the Mexicans have forgotten that they lost a war to the US and much territory that they still consider to be theirs, you are not only naive, but dangerously so. This is the real world. Again I tell you, wake up.

[Nina~ 431]

IMHO, being required to recite and remember a pledge or anthom of another country in the US school system is B.S. It has absolutely nothing to do with culture. It's just some teacher trying to do her part in brainwashing the students to be loyal to another country. This is America----not Mexico. The students should be able to pick any Spanish speaking country of THEIR CHOICE and do a report on it for the culture part of the class. As far as the teacher is concerned---if she loves Mexico so much why doesn't she take the 10 mile drive and go home since she doesn't want to assimilate into the US CULTURE and become an American.

Sorry for the rant but stuff like this is starting to wear on my nerves!!!

Dang it! I should have known it when they dressed us up in pilgrim & native American costumes in 3rd grade that they were trying to brainwash us

Seriously though, I took French in highschool. We had a similar cultural appreciation day when our teacher bought us croissants and taught us the French national anthem. Why not Quebecois or Swiss or Belgium's national anthem? I dont know! Maybe the teacher was just more familiar with French culture. Moreover, I can't remember a single word or note of the French national anthem.. Honestly, no one in my class got brainwashed and became loyal to France.

[Ready to do it 101]

This thread is pretty funny. Obvioulsy very few of you have kids that take or have taken high school spanish. The curriculum is based on Spanish spoken in Mexico. It's the books they use. It is not the choice of the teacher. Once you get past Span I, II, and III, students are prepared for the Spanish AP Language and the Spanish AP Literature tests to place out of college courses.

Ultimately, the material is taught based on Mexico's Spanish because that is what the kids need to know for the AP exam and that is what the book teaches. Ie. Socks = "Calcetines" in Mexico and in these books while in most countries they use the word "medias." Hair (on your head) = "Pelo" in Mexico and in these books, but many countries say "cabello." The point is these teachers teach Mexican Spanish in the US because that is what the AP test is based on and it is the way it is taught in the books. By the way, they do learn some culture of Central and South America as well as Spain.

Regarding teaching the pledge and anthem. While I have no idea if that is part of the curriculum, are you guys going to tell me you never had to put up with a history teacher that clearly had his/her own agenda as opposed to teaching the curriculum? Geez, it's a song and a pledge and if I were to choose between learning Mexico's pledge and anthem versus having to endure a history teacher with his/her agenda for a whole year, guess which one I would choose? Not to mention, these kids are 10 minutes from the border, do you folks really not think the majority of them are either Mexican or Mexican/American? Kudos to the teacher for teaching them about where they came from. For the less than 10% of those in the class that probably weren't Mexican or Mexican/American... put up with it, or have the bad attitude. Wouldn't surprise me if the same student ends up complaining when she finishes the year off with a D or F in the class either as most language classes have the participation component of the grade at 25-40% of your final grade. Smart move by this girl, not. lol

Edited October 19, 2011 by Ready to do it

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Can you explain to me how reciting the Pledge and the Anthem teach about Mexican culture? Why couldn't it have been the latest Mexican pop song or something? Or a Mexican poem? It would be akin to me telling you to learn the Australian Anthem. It's just a bunch of words to you, it TEACHES nothing.

It's obvious this girl has some sort of bias towards being "turned into a Mexican" or some other ####### and I think THAT'S the reason she objected, just for attention/drama. She could have quietly mentioned to the teacher she was uncomfortable with the assignment however she had to make a big song and dance about it. Would I have? No but then they're just words to me, just like learning the US anthem was just a song when I learnt it so many years ago (it was in a movie and I liked how this girl sang it). I would probably have done the anthem because it's quick and easy, not like a written assignment (sounds like she was being punished by being forced to do a written assignment instead - should have been asked to recite a poem or something in the same lines of the task).

I think the teacher and principal have an agenda yes, but I think this girl is standing on her own soap box as well (or perhaps her parents influence put her there)

[웃 910]

This thread is pretty funny. Obvioulsy very few of you have kids that take or have taken high school spanish. The curriculum is based on Spanish spoken in Mexico. It's the books they use. It is not the choice of the teacher. Once you get past Span I, II, and III, students are prepared for the Spanish AP Language and the Spanish AP Literature tests to place out of college courses.

Ultimately, the material is taught based on Mexico's Spanish because that is what the kids need to know for the AP exam and that is what the book teaches. Ie. Socks = "Calcetines" in Mexico and in these books while in most countries they use the word "medias." Hair (on your head) = "Pelo" in Mexico and in these books, but many countries say "cabello." The point is these teachers teach Mexican Spanish in the US because that is what the AP test is based on and it is the way it is taught in the books. By the way, they do learn some culture of Central and South America as well as Spain.

Regarding teaching the pledge and anthem. While I have no idea if that is part of the curriculum, are you guys going to tell me you never had to put up with a history teacher that clearly had his/her own agenda as opposed to teaching the curriculum? Geez, it's a song and a pledge and if I were to choose between learning Mexico's pledge and anthem versus having to endure a history teacher for a whole year, guess which one I would choose. Not to mention, these kids are 10 minutes from the border, do you folks really not think the majority of them are either Mexican or Mexican/American? Kudos to the teacher for teaching them about where they came from. For the less than 10% of those in the class that probably weren't Mexican or Mexican/American... put up with it, or have the bad attitude. Wouldn't surprise me if the same student ends up complaining when she finishes the year off with a D or F in the class either as most language classes have the participation component of the grade at 25-40% of your final grade. Smart move by this girl, not. lol

That's your experience in 1 state.

My experience in 1 state is that in high school the teachers are non-native. You are lucky if you get a native speaker. This is probably NOT TRUE in states like Texas, California, Florida. But that's just a guess.

Community college was a 2/3 chance you have a non-native speaker teaching you.

University still non-native. Then you are fortunate to have a true native speaker at the higher levels. Mine were excellent. Obviously both Ph.D.s. One was from Argentina. His slang was Argentinan Spanish. The other straight from Spain.

Post-grad my professor was Canadian but also wrote the book. Was native in many languages. Didn't teach us Mexican Spanish at all.

But this again is just my experience in Michigan.

Since the population of Mexico is so much higher than the other Spanish-speaking countries, and since we are so close to the border, I would imagine that there are a lot more Mexican instructors.

Also, in my opinion, Mexican Spanish is the best one!

Bottom line is you are much better off if your teacher is native.

Regarding "pelo" vs. "cabello"....I asked my wife she said they're both equally used. I asked a second time and she said it's more proper to use "pelo" referring to an animals hair and "cabello" referring to human hair? She's from Mexico.

Edited October 19, 2011 by Lord Infamous

[Golden Gate 530]

It's so interesting to me that some of the people on here who love to talk about how the country with the strongest military or whatever wins when taking over somebody else's land, like that is just the way it is - too bad for those people who happen to live there - are the same people crying about the Mexicans 'invading' the land that once belonged to them.

Edited October 19, 2011 by Golden Gate

[Ready to do it 101]

I do not know how old you are, but the curriculum to be taught to pass the AP tests is Spanish from Mexico. It's not a state thing. The AP test is a national test. When you and I (assuming you are over 30) were in school there was no such thing as an AP test so I guess the districts, schools, etc had a choice on the curriculum for a language course. Now they do not.

I'd argue that your wife is incorrect regarding "pelo." In fact, she is incorrect as they don't use the word cabello in Mexico thus the reason she is not aware of it. Pelo in South America refers to the hair on your body. I.e. Arm hair, leg hair, private parts hair, etc. Cabello is the hair on your head. If someone said the word "pelo" in South America and was trying to refer to the hair on their head you'd get a blank stare. But... in these books, the word is "pelo," for ALL hair because that is Mexican Spanish.

That's your experience in 1 state.

My experience in 1 state is that in high school the teachers are non-native. You are lucky if you get a native speaker. This is probably NOT TRUE in states like Texas, California, Florida. But that's just a guess.

Community college was a 2/3 chance you have a non-native speaker teaching you.

University still non-native. Then you are fortunate to have a true native speaker at the higher levels. Mine were excellent. Obviously both Ph.D.s. One was from Argentina. His slang was Argentinan Spanish. The other straight from Spain.

Post-grad my professor was Canadian but also wrote the book. Was native in many languages. Didn't teach us Mexican Spanish at all.

But this again is just my experience in Michigan.

Since the population of Mexico is so much higher than the other Spanish-speaking countries, and since we are so close to the border, I would imagine that there are a lot more Mexican instructors.

Also, in my opinion, Mexican Spanish is the best one!

Bottom line is you are much better off if your teacher is native.

Regarding "pelo" vs. "cabello"....I asked my wife she said they're both equally used. I asked a second time and she said it's more proper to use "pelo" referring to an animals hair and "cabello" referring to human hair? She's from Mexico.

[웃 910]

I do not know how old you are, but the curriculum to be taught to pass the AP tests is Spanish from Mexico. It's not a state thing. The AP test is a national test. When you and I (assuming you are over 30) were in school there was no such thing as an AP test so I guess the districts, schools, etc had a choice on the curriculum for a language course. Now they do not.

You win here. But I don't see what the big deal is with using Mexican Spanish....Spain Spanish, Argentina Spanish...That would be a problem. One of those tiny countries (Guatemala/Nicaragua/Panama/Ecuador): why? There are about 110 million in Mexico and we share a border and there are millions in this country that are Mexican...Next highest on the population count Spain and Colombia with under 46 million.

I'd argue that your wife is incorrect regarding "pelo." In fact, she is incorrect as they don't use the word cabello in Mexico thus the reason she is not aware of it. Pelo in South America refers to the hair on your body. I.e. Arm hair, leg hair, private parts hair, etc. Cabello is the hair on your head. If someone said the word "pelo" in South America and was trying to refer to the hair on their head you'd get a blank stare. But... in these books, the word is "pelo," for ALL hair because that is Mexican Spanish.

That's exactly what she just said (minus the body hair)...Pelo = animals, body hair.....Cabello = Hair on head

My wife just said this and I've been familiar with the word cabello for years as hair (although I've never referred to an animals hair or body hair - only hair on top of my head - so I was not familiar with this distinction until now)...

Cabello is used in Mexico...

But I will give you that they use both words for anything (hair on head, animal, arm, whatever).

Edited October 19, 2011 by Lord Infamous

[Ready to do it 101]

By the way, I know it's your opinion... but why do you think Mexican Spanish is the best one? Because your wife is from Mexico?

If you took a poll of 100 spanish speakers that live in the US that are from each of the Spanish speaking countries and asked all 2000 of them (assuming there are 20 spanish speaking countries), which countries Spanish is the "poorest?" 1900 of them would say... Mexico's Spanish is the poorest. That is pretty much common knowledge, which makes one scratch their head at why Mexico's Spanish is the one we teach in US schools. The same can be said about English. The English we learn in US schools is not close to the level of English they teach in England. It's a fact, our education system in the US is pretty bad when comparing 1st world countries, whether it's English, Science, Math, or foreign languages the US education system is very poor.

Also, in my opinion, Mexican Spanish is the best one!

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

It's so interesting to me that some of the people on here who love to talk about how the country with the strongest military or whatever wins when taking over somebody else's land, like that is just the way it is - too bad for those people who happen to live there - are the same people crying about the Mexicans 'invading' the land that once belonged to them.

And the Indians before them.

[웃 910]

By the way, I know it's your opinion... but why do you think Mexican Spanish is the best one? Because your wife is from Mexico?

If you took a poll of 100 spanish speakers that live in the US that are from each of the Spanish speaking countries and asked all 2000 of them (assuming there are 20 spanish speaking countries), which countries Spanish is the "poorest?" 1900 of them would say... Mexico's Spanish is the poorest. That is pretty much common knowledge, which makes one scratch their head at why Mexico's Spanish is the one we teach in US schools. The same can be said about English. The English we learn in US schools is not close to the level of English they teach in England. It's a fact, our education system in the US is pretty bad when comparing 1st world countries, whether it's English, Science, Math, or foreign languages the US education system is very poor.

I asked my wife about 15 minutes ago the same question (who speaks the worst) and she said Peru!!!

Then Nicaragua/Panama/Guatemala....

I always found the Puerto Ricans to speak really fast and I think it's bad Spanish!

Spain - The original - most authenticate...But the slurring and the vosotros is not that great.

Argentina - Vosotros....And they pronounce yo as Joe and llama as Jamma.....

I'm not sure your analysis is correct considering there are 110 million Mexicans. I'd imagine Nicaraguans think their Spanish is best and Venezuelans think theirs is best.

But it would be interesting to see a survey on what each country thought about who speaks the worst...I don't think it's Mexico but could be wrong..

Edited October 19, 2011 by Lord Infamous