Why Baby Boomers Don't Understand Occupy Wall Street

[Marilyn. 340]

$200,000 would get you a cardboard box on the sidewalk around the LA area

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

$200,000 would get you a cardboard box on the sidewalk around the LA area

With windows?

[Marilyn. 340]

With windows?

if you are lucky

[mawilson 2,133]

Jeez, that's rude.

It was? I'm sorry, that wasn't my intention. There are a lot of places I can't afford, but the market is what it is - there's nothing I can do about it.

Places cost $200,000 or $1,000,000 or $10,000,000 because there are willing buyers.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Concord is East Bay. North Bay stuff is expensive until you get north of Cloverdale. Have you looked around Gilroy, and points east and west of there?

Yeah, areas that are cheap include - Concord, Martinez, San Pablo, Richmond (Yeah Right lol!!), El Sobrante etc.

I'd personally like to buy in South El Cerrito or Albany.

[Fandango 1,440]

$200,000 would get you a cardboard box on the sidewalk around the LA area

Actually, I found more in LA than in the area Rachel needs. Do a search on realtor.com

[Marilyn. 340]

Actually, I found more in LA than in the area Rachel needs. Do a search on realtor.com

maybe but the neighborhood won't be good...

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Yeah, areas that are cheap include - Concord, Martinez, San Pablo, Richmond (Yeah Right lol!!), El Sobrante etc.

I'd personally like to buy in South El Cerrito or Albany.

East Richmond Heights is nice! Great view, if you like the Bay.

Edited October 28, 2011 by Crusty Old Perv

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

East Richmond Heights is nice! Great view, if you like the Bay.

http://www.redfin.com/CA/Richmond/6210-Highland-Ave-94805/home/777848

[slim 1,533]

And here's where we run into problems.

"I can't afford a house." That's not true. You can afford a house. Anyone can. You may not be able to afford a house where you want to live. And that's the part the occupiers and many here in this thread refuse to accept.

It's not the economy causing problems. It's your lifestyle.

[Fandango 1,440]

And here's where we run into problems.

"I can't afford a house." That's not true. You can afford a house. Anyone can. You may not be able to afford a house where you want to live. And that's the part the occupiers and many here in this thread refuse to accept.

It's not the economy causing problems. It's your lifestyle.

Hey! Get your hands off my spaghetti bolognese!

[Alex & Rachel 78]

I still think you have the wrong end of the stick...

These were my points:

1. The average house price has risen at a rate greater than the rate at which the average salary has risen. Houses that were 2-3 x the average salary are now often 5-6 x the average salary.

I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing. Markets fluctuate, demands fluctuate and sometimes prices go up and sometimes prices go down. Sometimes it's a great time to buy and you can make a killing, at other times you buy a house and it's a bad investment.

But... just because a person can't afford a house in their area that their parents or grandparents might've been able to in that same area says nothing about their work ethic or efforts. It just says something about that area's housing market.

2. Education is invariably more expensive for the current generation.

Obtaining a degree was FREE for my parents. They graduated with NO student debt. How is that not a difference?

3. I'm not arguing that previous generations had it better or worse. I'm happy to live in an age where we have the technological and medical advances that we do. I'm fortunate not to have lived through a world war or rationing.

But:

- I don't agree that the current young generation is always in debt purely because they live extravagant lifestyles

- I don't agree that failing to be able to buy a house is a sign of not working hard enough

- I don't agree that the current young generation always 'expects' too much or that they have no idea how to budget

My main argument lies with people of my parents' age who graduated from college with no student debt and then managed to buy a house while simultaneously raising a family who then think that just because a current graduate can't do the same thing in the current economical climate that they must either be a) lazy and/or b) are spending all of their money on luxury goods.

...Funnily enough I'm really not at all interested in OWS. It's inevitable that times change. If anything, two things I feel most strongly about are education and healthcare - I don't believe poverty should be an obstacle to either. Home ownership is really a very, very low priority of mine.

Edited October 28, 2011 by Alex & Rachel

[mawilson 2,133]

Obtaining a degree was FREE for my parents.

It was not free - we're paying for it now. Things that we get "for free" today will be paid for by future generations.

[slim 1,533]

1. The average house price has risen at a rate greater than the rate at which the average salary has risen. Houses that were 2-3 x the average salary are now often 5-6 x the average salary.

Source? Links? Numbers of any sort?

We have enough people posting their opinions. Lets see some numbers to back that up. The numbers I see are -

1975 median household income $10,565

2010 median household income $48,753

That means we make almost 5 times as much money now as they made back then.

1975 median price of a house $39,300

2006 median price of a house $221,800

That means houses cost us almost 6 times as it did for them.

Back in 1975, the average price of a home was about 3.75 times the average household income.

Today, (well, last year, anyway) it's about 4.5 times as much. So, you are correct. It's gone up. But... is that increase really enough to prove your position?

I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing. Markets fluctuate, demands fluctuate and sometimes prices go up and sometimes prices go down. Sometimes it's a great time to buy and you can make a killing, at other times you buy a house and it's a bad investment.

But... just because a person can't afford a house in their area that their parents or grandparents might've been able to in that same area says nothing about their work ethic or efforts. It just says something about that area's housing market.

I will grant there are market deviations that can't be explained in "general" terms. They have to be pointed out on a case by case basis. But, overall, there's no excuse for young people today to not own homes at the rates their parents (or grandparents) did. Well, not the excuse they're claiming, anyway. That one doesn't add up.

2. Education is invariably more expensive for the current generation.

Obtaining a degree was FREE for my parents. They graduated with NO student debt. How is that not a difference?

Around here, we're working class folks with the exact same FREE education our parents had. We're making 5 times as much money. You're right. That IS different!

Perhaps you're onto something here. If your parents went to college and had free education and you PAID for your education then you'd have to make that proportionally larger amount of money to cover your loans. The problem with many kids today is they're not. They think going to school is a necessity and mandatory (and so is that huge loan they "have to" take) but when it comes time to pay for it all.... they're crying about it.

Heck, I don't have a college degree but I'm pretty sure 5x as much debt would probably mean you need to make at least 2x more money so you could cover that debt over time. What I see a lot of today is kids running up a hundred grand in debt and then earning only about $10,000 more per year than I do. No wonder they have so many problems paying off that debt. Especially when you factor in the money I was making for the four to six years they were in school.

The math just doesn't add up. And they want to cry about it. They're supposed to be the smart ones.

How could this happen?

Since we're not allowed to have self-responsibility anymore, we'll blame it on big business. It's their fault we have $20,000 in credit card debt. Not ours. Theirs!

3. I'm not arguing that previous generations had it better or worse. I'm happy to live in an age where we have the technological and medical advances that we do. I'm fortunate not to have lived through a world war or rationing.

But:

- I don't agree that the current young generation is always in debt purely because they live extravagant lifestyles

- I don't agree that failing to be able to buy a house is a sign of not working hard enough

- I don't agree that the current young generation always 'expects' too much or that they have no idea how to budget

My main argument lies with people of my parents' age who graduated from college with no student debt and then managed to buy a house while simultaneously raising a family who then think that just because a current graduate can't do the same thing in the current economical climate that they must either be a) lazy and/or b) are spending all of their money on luxury goods.

...Funnily enough I'm really not at all interested in OWS. It's inevitable that times change. If anything, two things I feel most strongly about are education and healthcare - I don't believe poverty should be an obstacle to either. Home ownership is really a very, very low priority of mine.

Like our government... it's not a problem of not having enough money. It's a problem of where that money's being spent.

[Alex & Rachel 78]

Source? Links? Numbers of any sort?

We have enough people posting their opinions. Lets see some numbers to back that up. The numbers I see are -

1975 median household income $10,565

2010 median household income $48,753

That means we make almost 5 times as much money now as they made back then.

1975 median price of a house $39,300

2006 median price of a house $221,800

That means houses cost us almost 6 times as it did for them.

Back in 1975, the average price of a home was about 3.75 times the average household income.

Today, (well, last year, anyway) it's about 4.5 times as much. So, you are correct. It's gone up. But... is that increase really enough to prove your position?

Okay... I am mainly thinking of the UK averages here.

Here's a chart adjusted for inflation:

From this link.

Here's a chart of price to earnings ratio:

Prices are falling... I left the UK in 2008, so saw the 'worst' of it.

Around here, we're working class folks with the exact same FREE education our parents had. We're making 5 times as much money. You're right. That IS different!

Define 'here' and 'free'? My education wasn't 'free' in the same sense that it was for my parents.

Perhaps you're onto something here. If your parents went to college and had free education and you PAID for your education then you'd have to make that proportionally larger amount of money to cover your loans. The problem with many kids today is they're not. They think going to school is a necessity and mandatory (and so is that huge loan they "have to" take) but when it comes time to pay for it all... they're crying about it.

It is a necessity for many career paths.

Heck, I don't have a college degree but I'm pretty sure 5x as much debt would probably mean you need to make at least 2x more money so you could cover that debt over time. What I see a lot of today is kids running up a hundred grand in debt and then earning only about $10,000 more per year than I do. No wonder they have so many problems paying off that debt. Especially when you factor in the money I was making for the four to six years they were in school.

The math just doesn't add up. And they want to cry about it. They're supposed to be the smart ones.

How could this happen?

I actually agree that there are too many people with near-worthless degrees. I'd actually much rather see fewer people obtaining degrees, and fewer positions requiring them (I've seen jobs for $35k-per-annum secretaries require degrees; really?!). Of course part of the problem is that the more people with degrees, the more jobs that require degrees.

So... I don't disagree with anything you wrote there.

The problem is that for the jobs that absolutely do require degrees, student loans are nearly unavoidable with today's tuition fees. So, even if you can obtain a good job afterwards and pay them off fairly easily, you still have the loans to pay off in the first place.

Like our government... it's not a problem of not having enough money. It's a problem of where that money's being spent.

Which I still think for many people is more on rent and student loans than the second cars and luxury goods you seem convinced all 20-somethings have...

Edited October 28, 2011 by Alex & Rachel