Why Baby Boomers Don't Understand Occupy Wall Street

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Truck driver is responsible, not me.

Ok lets say you have a brain aneurysm instead of a truck.

Edited October 21, 2011 by Sousuke

[slim 1,530]

Ok lets say you have a brain aneurysm instead of a truck.

Good one.

And now we're getting down to the heart of the matter.

How much longer are we going to require everyone be given life saving care, even if they can't afford it? As it stands right now, the hospital has to save my life (or at least make it look like they tried) even if I can't pay them. The only way we're truly going to fix this problem is by making hospitals part of the unregulated free market economy.

Since everyone has a soft spot for poor people and we don't want to see anyone die, what we should do is allow every single private hospital in the country to turn folks away if they can't afford coverage there. The poor people can go to "public hospitals." Obviously, the level of care at a private hospital would be so much better that it would incentivize everyone to go private.

Those who choose not to or can't afford it would, in effect, get what they pay for.

Problem solved.

[mawilson 2,133]

Truck driver is responsible, not me.

He's broke like you and says "bill me".

[mawilson 2,133]

Since everyone has a soft spot for poor people and we don't want to see anyone die, what we should do is allow every single private hospital in the country to turn folks away if they can't afford coverage there. The poor people can go to "public hospitals." Obviously, the level of care at a private hospital would be so much better that it would incentivize everyone to go private.

Let's go with the truck example. You get hit by a truck, and the collision renders you unconscious. The truck driver is an illegal alien and flees the scene.

A few minutes later, ambulances arrive on the scene. Where should they take you, a public or a private hospital? You have no wallet, ID or health insurance card.

[slim 1,530]

He's broke like you and says "bill me".

I'll forward my medical bills to him.

[mawilson 2,133]

I'll forward my medical bills to him.

You can forward your medical bills to Santa Claus, I'm still paying for your healthcare because you're uninsured.

[slim 1,530]

Let's go with the truck example. You get hit by a truck, and the collision renders you unconscious. The truck driver is an illegal alien and flees the scene.

A few minutes later, ambulances arrive on the scene. Where should they take you, a public or a private hospital? You have no wallet, ID or health insurance card.

Public.

You can forward your medical bills to Santa Claus, I'm still paying for your healthcare because you're uninsured.

Why are you doing that?

[mawilson 2,133]

Why are you doing that?

Because your bills remain unpaid if you send them to a person who can't pay them.

[slim 1,530]

Because your bills remain unpaid if you send them to a person who can't pay them.

So you feel like you should pay them?

Why is it your job to pay a doctor/hospital for something you don't use? I wouldn't pay for that.

I darn sure wouldn't pay an adminstrative company to ensure everyone was paid.

[mawilson 2,133]

So you feel like you should pay them?

Why is it your job to pay a doctor/hospital for something you don't use?

No, but they make me pay for people like you.

They make you pay for people like you too.

[scandal 951]

It'd be interesting to poll the people that had universal coverage and now live in the US....Which system works better? Which system is more affordable?

I like the US system. It's also more affordable (for me personally), since my tax burden would have been a lot higher in the UK.

I've lived in two countries that have universal coverage - Canada and Israel, and one that does not - the USA.

In Canada I was covered by the province of Ontario's OHIP plan. There were mandatory payroll contributions to pay for it, similar to FICA taxes in the US. It covers all legal residents, regardless of whether they are employed or not. If you lose your job there's no need for anything like COBRA since your coverage continues uninterrupted regardless of whether you are working. You lose it only if you stop maintaining the residency requirements (e.g. snowbirds who spend 6 months out of province in Florida have to pay attention not to lose OHIP).

In Israel I was covered by the Kupat Holim system, similar to HMO and PPO coverage in the US but required for all residents. Again, paid for through payroll contributions but job loss does not imply loss of coverage.

In the US of course I have health coverage through my employer.

I think the main benefits of universal coverage systems are:

1) Everyone is covered. Status, income, pre-existing conditions, irresponsible behavior are not factors in ensuring that all who need care receive it.

2) Loss of employment does not jeopardize coverage, or trigger pre-existing conditions clauses to deny future coverage

3) It's much more efficient. Administration and processing costs are lower. In the US each provider (doctor, clinic, hospital) needs to maintain bilateral relationships with every possible insurance carrier, who each have their own forms and procedures and pre-treatment plans. That often requires a dedicated staff person for even small offices just to handle insurance billing. That overhead evaporates in a universal delivery system.

[slim 1,530]

No, but they make me pay for people like you.

They make you pay for people like you too.

They don't make me pay for squat.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

They don't make me pay for squat.

As soon as you go and see a doctor, you ARE paying for it. Recovery of uncompensated care is baked into the fee schedules.

[^_^ 5,021]

As soon as you go and see a doctor, you ARE paying for it. Recovery of uncompensated care is baked into the fee schedules.

He will never go see a doctor, aren't you listening?

He will never even purchase OTC medication (since recovery costs are baked into those as well).

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

He will never go see a doctor, aren't you listening?

Right. And I'll never get old which is why I should not pay any SS taxes. Nor will I ever cause an accident with my vehicle which is why I should not have to purchase auto insurance.

Edited October 21, 2011 by Mr. Big Dog