Is this marriage feasible?

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

You are asking question that only an attorney in Columbia can answer. What makes sense to you or I, from any experience we may have with American family courts, may be something completely different in that country.

[milimelo 4,500]

I spoke with my boss about this today (before posting here) and he did mention that if I had a spouse, they (the company) would need to "take care of the paperwork for that". He said this knowing that I am not currently married and that my fiancee is living in Colombia. He also mentioned he is aware that if she was to become a U.S. citizen, she would need to stay in the U.S. for some time without leaving. He is also the one sending me to Africa in July. --- Considering all of this, I sense that they would work out the paperwork for her (otherwise he would have pointed out that it's not possible at the moment since she needs time to naturalize in the U.S.). He also said family life in this situation is actually quite doable, "especially in Africa, where laws are loose on this."

Also, obviously I am not working for the U.S. government, but the first question/answer here offers some guidance none the less: http://www.state.gov.../flo/c23169.htm So, the Dep. of State would sponsor it.

What do you mean DOS would sponsor it? Unless you're a DOS employee, they will NOT sponsor it.

Edited October 17, 2011 by milimelo

[nebodihome 0]

Sorry I was not clear, I meant to draw a parallel: if DOS sponsors their employees' spouses, this may also be standard practice in the professional world.

[pushbrk 12,969]

Thank you for all of your responses. My question then becomes this:

She is currently working part-time and is a part-time student. If she applied for a tourist Visa for the U.S., she probably would not get approved.

If I marry her in Colombia, or decide to marry her in Colombia, what are the chances that Rwanda will allow her to enter the borders with me? Rwanda is considerably poorer than Colombia, so am I wrong to assume that their entry requirements are less than that of the U.S.? Do you think her being my wife would help in that process?

Thank you!

You are correct that she has little chance of obtaining a visitor visa for the USA. Her marriage to you is unlikely to have any impact on her ability to travel to Rwanda but you need to check with Rwanda about that. A year or so before you are ready to live together permanently in the USA, you can begin a spouse visa process.

[kennym 275]

Wouldn't it make more sense for us to first marry so then there is a clear reason for him to relinquish his rights?

The answer here really depends on how you and your wife would survive this kind of an event in your relationship should things not work out... If you're certain that the husbands acceptance is gonna happen, then I would think being married offers much more advantage then simply being engaged, when it comes to employers, and health insurance etc, but when it comes to immigration benefits offered by other foriegn countries asside from her home country and asside from the USA, it has no benefit unless you have the proper documents from the respective governments...

Even if the mother consents to him relinquishing his rights, doesn't the judge have to judge in the best interest of the child, and how could he then say that it would be wise for the father to lose his legal rights?

The answer is absoulutely has no bearing on foriegn law... As you know, the only things that matter is local law.. And unless there is overwhelmning proof that the biological father is bad, then it is doubtful that you are going to get a Colombian Judge to award sole custody to the mom, and your likely not going to be able to convince the judge that the father has no rights to the child...

You're going to need the father's cooperation...

[nebodihome 0]

The answer here really depends on how you and your wife would survive this kind of an event in your relationship should things not work out... If you're certain that the husbands acceptance is gonna happen, then I would think being married offers much more advantage then simply being engaged, when it comes to employers, and health insurance etc, but when it comes to immigration benefits offered by other foriegn countries asside from her home country and asside from the USA, it has no benefit unless you have the proper documents from the respective governments...

The answer is absoulutely has no bearing on foriegn law... As you know, the only things that matter is local law.. And unless there is overwhelmning proof that the biological father is bad, then it is doubtful that you are going to get a Colombian Judge to award sole custody to the mom, and your likely not going to be able to convince the judge that the father has no rights to the child...

You're going to need the father's cooperation...

What I meant was: Unless we are married, I see no way for the judge to allow the biological father to relinquish his rights to be the father. Even if the father cooperates, why would the judge allow him to relinquish his rights unless he sees that there is a clear alternative for the child (being me wanting to adopt the child, which would only make sense after I marry the mother). What I am saying is the logical first step, in my opinion, would be to marry and THEN to adopt the child (with the father's cooperation).

[kennym 275]

What I meant was: Unless we are married, I see no way for the judge to allow the biological father to relinquish his rights to be the father. Even if the father cooperates, why would the judge allow him to relinquish his rights unless he sees that there is a clear alternative for the child (being me wanting to adopt the child, which would only make sense after I marry the mother). What I am saying is the logical first step, in my opinion, would be to marry and THEN to adopt the child (with the father's cooperation).

With the father's cooperation, it's fine, but without it, it is a long and likely a loosing battle..

I don't see thay you're saying this, but, if you feel the judge will take the fathers rights away simply because there is more oppuritunity with you, then that's likely not going to happen... Dont beleive this is what you mean, but, just in case you thought this...

If the father is cooperative, no judge is needed... Maybe a lawyer to put the documents together...

[nebodihome 0]

With the father's cooperation, it's fine, but without it, it is a long and likely a loosing battle..

I don't see thay you're saying this, but, if you feel the judge will take the fathers rights away simply because there is more oppuritunity with you, then that's likely not going to happen... Dont beleive this is what you mean, but, just in case you thought this...

If the father is cooperative, no judge is needed... Maybe a lawyer to put the documents together...

I think the father will cooperate. There will be a lot of pressure on him to "do the right thing," from his family, my fiance's family, and from his friends. There could also be a money incentive, etc.

With regards to what I was trying to say earlier: The only way the judge takes away his legal title as father, even if he cooperates 100%, is if the judge knows there is another person (me) ready to step in. In other words, the father can cooperate 100% all he wants, but the judge is not going to allow a father to just relinquish his legal connection to his daughter unless there is a good reason to do so (me stepping in, for example).

[pushbrk 12,969]

I think the father will cooperate. There will be a lot of pressure on him to "do the right thing," from his family, my fiance's family, and from his friends. There could also be a money incentive, etc.

With regards to what I was trying to say earlier: The only way the judge takes away his legal title as father, even if he cooperates 100%, is if the judge knows there is another person (me) ready to step in. In other words, the father can cooperate 100% all he wants, but the judge is not going to allow a father to just relinquish his legal connection to his daughter unless there is a good reason to do so (me stepping in, for example).

Best to focus on obtaining a letter of permission to remove the child from the country permanently, directly and voluntarily from the father. I would try that first. If it doesn't work, usually a court order of custody allowing the mother to leave the country permanently would be sought. This is a couple steps short of "taking away his legal title or rights as a father". Try the voluntary permission route first.

[kennym 275]

I think the father will cooperate. There will be a lot of pressure on him to "do the right thing," from his family, my fiance's family, and from his friends. There could also be a money incentive, etc.

With regards to what I was trying to say earlier: The only way the judge takes away his legal title as father, even if he cooperates 100%, is if the judge knows there is another person (me) ready to step in. In other words, the father can cooperate 100% all he wants, but the judge is not going to allow a father to just relinquish his legal connection to his daughter unless there is a good reason to do so (me stepping in, for example).

Maybe I am still misunderstanding you, but from my experience there is no chance any Colombian Judge is going to take away a Colombian Man's title as the "father" regardless (unless the father is completely out of the picture, ie; dead) if he is not willing to let it happen... Otherwise, his cooperation is the only chance you have..

So, that said.. Working this in the most amicable manner is the difenitely the way to go,,, Because, otherwise the odds are not in your favor.. Regardless if you have a better life for the child or not.. It simply doesn't work that way, and definitely not in Colombia... The men traditionally have the upper-hand in Colombia.. Americans, and the better oppuritunity, have absolutely no influence on the outcome...

Working this with his family is a good approach as long as he doesnt feel he's cornered, because for typical Colombian men, they know they have control and they know they are not going to loose the Father's rights, unless they (the father) agree to it,,

If I misuderstood you, and responded inappropriately. my appologies.. just want to make sure you dont have any unrealistic expectations..

In our experience, we made sure not to approach this confrontationally... it worked out best for us..

Edited October 18, 2011 by kennym

[nebodihome 0]

Maybe I am still misunderstanding you, but from my experience there is no chance any Colombian Judge is going to take away a Colombian Man's title as the "father" regardless (unless the father is completely out of the picture, ie; dead) if he is not willing to let it happen... Otherwise, his cooperation is the only chance you have..

So, that said.. Working this in the most amicable manner is the difenitely the way to go,,, Because, otherwise the odds are not in your favor.. Regardless if you have a better life for the child or not.. It simply doesn't work that way, and definitely not in Colombia... The men traditionally have the upper-hand in Colombia.. Americans, and the better oppuritunity, have absolutely no influence on the outcome...

Working this with his family is a good approach as long as he doesnt feel he's cornered, because for typical Colombian men, they know they have control and they know they are not going to loose the Father's rights, unless they (the father) agree to it,,

If I misuderstood you, and responded inappropriately. my appologies.. just want to make sure you dont have any unrealistic expectations..

In our experience, we made sure not to approach this confrontationally... it worked out best for us..

You misunderstood me But I can tell you we are 100% in agreement

Maybe a better way to explain what I was saying: Imagine you are the biological father of a child, and there is no other man with your ex-girlfriend. Can you request a document that you can sign in order to give up your legal right of that child? Of course not! How can a father just renounce his child?

All I am saying is for adoption to even be possible, I FIRST need to be married to her! Otherwise, the father cannot voluntarily give up his rights to his child! If that was possible, every single man paying child support would simply sign a document saying they are no longer the child's father...

[kennym 275]

You misunderstood me But I can tell you we are 100% in agreement

Maybe a better way to explain what I was saying: Imagine you are the biological father of a child, and there is no other man with your ex-girlfriend. Can you request a document that you can sign in order to give up your legal right of that child? Of course not! How can a father just renounce his child?

All I am saying is for adoption to even be possible, I FIRST need to be married to her! Otherwise, the father cannot voluntarily give up his rights to his child! If that was possible, every single man paying child support would simply sign a document saying they are no longer the child's father...

[pushbrk 12,969]

You misunderstood me But I can tell you we are 100% in agreement

Maybe a better way to explain what I was saying: Imagine you are the biological father of a child, and there is no other man with your ex-girlfriend. Can you request a document that you can sign in order to give up your legal right of that child? Of course not! How can a father just renounce his child?

All I am saying is for adoption to even be possible, I FIRST need to be married to her! Otherwise, the father cannot voluntarily give up his rights to his child! If that was possible, every single man paying child support would simply sign a document saying they are no longer the child's father...

I must have missed something and probably did. Adoption is not a requirement for the child to immigrate. If it's a condition of yours or key to your decision, that's another matter. To immigrate as your step child, the child only needs permission, not a loss of parental rights.

[kennym 275]

I must have missed something and probably did. Adoption is not a requirement for the child to immigrate. If it's a condition of yours or key to your decision, that's another matter. To immigrate as your step child, the child only needs permission, not a loss of parental rights.

Yea, I dont get the sense he feels that is needed.. My sense is, he thinks the father would be willing to give up parental rights if he could.. Its actually a bit confusing...

But in our case, all we went after was permission..

There is no legal agreement, but just a promise from us that we would be willing to travel back once or twice a year to make it possible for the daughter to spend her summers with the father...

But we never considered trying to get fathers rights terminated... That was simply not something we would've ever succeeded with..

I dont beleive it's something anyone (at least in Colombia) could get away with.. The courts typically dont consider this.. however, some Colombian men, given the oppuritunity would give up thier rights if they could.. But I get the sense, this is a very small percentage...

[setherwyn 0]

lets say that if you have permission from the father you are safe. if you want you can adopt the child, but again, the father needs to cooperate.