Question about the new law

[Peter Miami 0]

It will take effect early March 2006. So, finalize your engagement and file your visa petition as soon as possible.

JR

[bly 0]

The new law as it stands only affects meeting through Marriage Brokers....hence the title 'International Marriage Broker Regulation Act'

Below is a link re the new law.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1155

Well I could be wrong but it sounded like you were trying to say I'm reckless or irresponsible or something like that. And of all the relationships you'll find here on VJ, mine is one of the ones you sure can't come down on... so if you like to hear stories about people that don't know each other very well and decide to get married, so that you can criticize them, I'm not what you're looking for.

Not what I meant, nor tried to imply.

*cough*

Sorry, this is completely wrong.

The new law AFFECTS EVERYONE, not only people meeting via a marriage broker. Doesn't matter how you meet, the US citizen will have to disclose his/her full criminal past. Doesn't matter how you met, the embassy interview will contain all the criminal information from your US citizen spouse PLUS an explanation of our domestic violence laws in the foreigners native language.

Doesn't matter how you meet, K1's now have a time based limit on apply for additional K1s. 2 k1s and you're put into a special database to track abusers.

The part about marriage brokers is very small part of the entire law. Marriage brokers must disclose the US citizen’s criminal history to the foreigner BEFORE disclosing any information about the foreigner to the US citizen.

This is a very intrusive law that affects everyone equally. I suspect this law will be repealed and/or found unconstitutional.

read more here: http://usaimmigrationattorney.com/nucleus/...p?itemid=2#more

Edited February 23, 2006 by bly

[Yodrak 7]

aussiewench,

No, the new law does not affect only meeting through 'marriage brokers'. For one thing, it has implications for any petitioner who has submitted petitions for 2 or more aliens in the past.

When the law will go into effect, and when the necessary policies and procedures will be in place to implement the law, may be 2 different things - witness the LIFE Act and the K3 visa.

The summation that one immigration attorney gave me went like this, "The statutory language is quite ambiguous on many points, including, retroactivity and, what constitutes and "approval". The good news is that more lawyers' kids get to go to college."

Yodrak

The new law as it stands only affects meeting through Marriage Brokers....hence the title 'International Marriage Broker Regulation Act'

Below is a link re the new law.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1155

Well I could be wrong but it sounded like you were trying to say I'm reckless or irresponsible or something like that. And of all the relationships you'll find here on VJ, mine is one of the ones you sure can't come down on... so if you like to hear stories about people that don't know each other very well and decide to get married, so that you can criticize them, I'm not what you're looking for.

Not what I meant, nor tried to imply.

*cough*

[MrMrsKnight 0]

Well, for all i've read the last few days, they already perform all the checks but now they'll only start to inform the foreign fiance about the USC's background. If that's the case, then it shouldn't slow things down..... and the only people that will see any difference are the ones getting informed or the ones who are hiding something.

[aussiewench 9]

Okies I stand corrected. I must admit I have done little research on it since it first come out and at the time there was limited info that gave it in any great detail. For anyone interested here is a link to the law in its entirity http://usaimmigrationattorney.com/images/IMBRA2005.pdf

aussiewench,

No, the new law does not affect only meeting through 'marriage brokers'. For one thing, it has implications for any petitioner who has submitted petitions for 2 or more aliens in the past.

When the law will go into effect, and when the necessary policies and procedures will be in place to implement the law, may be 2 different things - witness the LIFE Act and the K3 visa.

The summation that one immigration attorney gave me went like this, "The statutory language is quite ambiguous on many points, including, retroactivity and, what constitutes and "approval". The good news is that more lawyers' kids get to go to college."

Yodrak

[bly 0]

Well, for all i've read the last few days, they already perform all the checks but now they'll only start to inform the foreign fiance about the USC's background. If that's the case, then it shouldn't slow things down..... and the only people that will see any difference are the ones getting informed or the ones who are hiding something.

I have to disagree.

When a USC and USC get married, neither USC has the right to see the others past records. This law goes past the "RIGHT" to know and makes it a "MANDATE".

Before a USC can get contact information for a forgiener via an international contact, we must release all of our personal criminal history, wether we have any or not (and I do not)

This law puts a time based restriction on the number of petitions which can be filed. Since when is love and marriage timelines dictated by the govt?

A second application puts you in an abusers database to have extra screening, like there isn't enough and this process isn't slow enough?

Since when did your govt decide they have the right to tell us what we must disclose about ourselves prior to ever meeting someone?

It also creates two set of marriage standards. Marry another USC and you have to do nothing. Marry a none USC and you must disclose everything about yourself to the govt, an over seas embassy, and your potential mate.

[MrMrsKnight 0]

I have to disagree.

When a USC and USC get married, neither USC has the right to see the others past records. This law goes past the "RIGHT" to know and makes it a "MANDATE".

Before a USC can get contact information for a forgiener via an international contact, we must release all of our personal criminal history, wether we have any or not (and I do not)

This law puts a time based restriction on the number of petitions which can be filed. Since when is love and marriage timelines dictated by the govt?

A second application puts you in an abusers database to have extra screening, like there isn't enough and this process isn't slow enough?

Since when did your govt decide they have the right to tell us what we must disclose about ourselves prior to ever meeting someone?

It also creates two set of marriage standards. Marry another USC and you have to do nothing. Marry a none USC and you must disclose everything about yourself to the govt, an over seas embassy, and your potential mate.

And when exactly does it go against what I said??

I didn't say it was right or wrong.... I just said that if the check is something they already do during the K1 process, then the new law on disclosing the information found shouldn't slow things down even more.

[bly 0]

I have to disagree.

When a USC and USC get married, neither USC has the right to see the others past records. This law goes past the "RIGHT" to know and makes it a "MANDATE".

Before a USC can get contact information for a forgiener via an international contact, we must release all of our personal criminal history, wether we have any or not (and I do not)

This law puts a time based restriction on the number of petitions which can be filed. Since when is love and marriage timelines dictated by the govt?

A second application puts you in an abusers database to have extra screening, like there isn't enough and this process isn't slow enough?

Since when did our govt decide they have the right to tell us what we must disclose about ourselves prior to ever meeting someone?

The only people this law doesn't affect are first time K1 applicants who didn't meet via an IMB and who have zero criminal history. But by slowing everyone else down and making this more complicated, it's going to slow all applications down. Count on everyone being confused for the next year. This is sure to push delays on all applications.

Thankfully I'm done and my application is already approved.

It also creates two set of marriage standards. Marry another USC and you have to do nothing. Marry a none USC and you must disclose everything about yourself to the govt, an over seas embassy, and your potential mate.

And when exactly does it go against what I said??

I didn't say it was right or wrong.... I just said that if the check is something they already do during the K1 process, then the new law on disclosing the information found shouldn't slow things down even more.

I was aiming at more the only people who will see any difference are those ones hiding something vs the one who aren't.

Anyone who's on their second or third k1 or k3 will see a difference.

This isn't about disclosure. This is about the govt intruding into our personal lives and telling us what we must disclose to others, and how often we can be engaged/married to foreigners.

If someone meets via an IMB, and that broker fails to disclose information as they are required to, it is very possible a K1 could be denied. This law can deny you're right to marry for someone's else mistake all together. Now if that's not slowing down a petition I don't know what is.

Suppose your first K1 fails, or even a second. Since when are we going to be bound by the govt telling us when we can fall in love again or want to get married? A 2 year slow down is a big deal.

Edited February 23, 2006 by bly

[lucyrich 20]

This law puts a time based restriction on the number of petitions which can be filed. Since when is love and marriage timelines dictated by the govt?

Love and marriage timelines, no. Immigration timelines, most certainly yes, for as long as I can remember. If you just want to meet privately, fall in love, and marry and stay in your foreign spouse's country, this law can't touch you.

A second application puts you in an abusers database to have extra screening, like there isn't enough and this process isn't slow enough?

Since when did your govt decide they have the right to tell us what we must disclose about ourselves prior to ever meeting someone?

It also creates two set of marriage standards. Marry another USC and you have to do nothing. Marry a none USC and you must disclose everything about yourself to the govt, an over seas embassy, and your potential mate.

No, even after passage of this law, you are free to meet whomever you want and marry whomever you want with or without disclosing information about your past. This law only has an effect if you try to bring your foreign spouse or fiancee into the US.

When two people marry, it's a matter between the two of them. But when they decide to use that marriage to bring one of them into the US, it becomes a matter of concern for the rest of US society. There have been too many people seriously harmed by a few abusers of the system, and the taxpayers end up paying to pick up the pieces, while the abusers can pick a new target and start again.

I think the new rules are certainly well intentioned and will probably end up having a net benefit overall. There may be some inconveniences as the details are worked out, of course, but the general sentiment of disclosing one's past to one's potential mate is a good idea.

[scy 0]

This law puts a time based restriction on the number of petitions which can be filed. Since when is love and marriage timelines dictated by the govt?

Love and marriage timelines, no. Immigration timelines, most certainly yes, for as long as I can remember. If you just want to meet privately, fall in love, and marry and stay in your foreign spouse's country, this law can't touch you.

A second application puts you in an abusers database to have extra screening, like there isn't enough and this process isn't slow enough?

Since when did your govt decide they have the right to tell us what we must disclose about ourselves prior to ever meeting someone?

It also creates two set of marriage standards. Marry another USC and you have to do nothing. Marry a none USC and you must disclose everything about yourself to the govt, an over seas embassy, and your potential mate.

No, even after passage of this law, you are free to meet whomever you want and marry whomever you want with or without disclosing information about your past. This law only has an effect if you try to bring your foreign spouse or fiancee into the US.

When two people marry, it's a matter between the two of them. But when they decide to use that marriage to bring one of them into the US, it becomes a matter of concern for the rest of US society. There have been too many people seriously harmed by a few abusers of the system, and the taxpayers end up paying to pick up the pieces, while the abusers can pick a new target and start again.

I think the new rules are certainly well intentioned and will probably end up having a net benefit overall. There may be some inconveniences as the details are worked out, of course, but the general sentiment of disclosing one's past to one's potential mate is a good idea.

I agree with this. Too often members of this board forget that immigration is a benefit not a right. There is no inalienable right to petition someone to immigrate to the US. So if you don't like immigration laws, you're welcome to live outside the US. No one will say anything if you fall in love, marry and live in a different part of the world.

The US government doesn't care squat about who you love and marry. It only cares when you try to bring your loved ones into the US.

[bly 0]

This law puts a time based restriction on the number of petitions which can be filed. Since when is love and marriage timelines dictated by the govt?

Love and marriage timelines, no. Immigration timelines, most certainly yes, for as long as I can remember. If you just want to meet privately, fall in love, and marry and stay in your foreign spouse's country, this law can't touch you.

A second application puts you in an abusers database to have extra screening, like there isn't enough and this process isn't slow enough?

Since when did your govt decide they have the right to tell us what we must disclose about ourselves prior to ever meeting someone?

It also creates two set of marriage standards. Marry another USC and you have to do nothing. Marry a none USC and you must disclose everything about yourself to the govt, an over seas embassy, and your potential mate.

No, even after passage of this law, you are free to meet whomever you want and marry whomever you want with or without disclosing information about your past. This law only has an effect if you try to bring your foreign spouse or fiancee into the US.

When two people marry, it's a matter between the two of them. But when they decide to use that marriage to bring one of them into the US, it becomes a matter of concern for the rest of US society. There have been too many people seriously harmed by a few abusers of the system, and the taxpayers end up paying to pick up the pieces, while the abusers can pick a new target and start again.

I think the new rules are certainly well intentioned and will probably end up having a net benefit overall. There may be some inconveniences as the details are worked out, of course, but the general sentiment of disclosing one's past to one's potential mate is a good idea.

You have a good point, you are free to marry, just no longer free to marry and live with your mate in the USA without the govt intervention.

However, you can't use an International Marriage Broker and meet a potential mate without full disclosure, even if you plan on marriage outside the USA and living outside the USA. Something as simple as exchange telephone numbers with a person that is not a USC now requires full disclosure.

Why is the law different if you meet someone via match.com? Why not require all people to disclose all former criminal past before being allowed to exchange contact information?

I also whole hardly agree that disclosing ones past to one's mate is a good idea, it's just the idea of the govt telling me how and when that will be done is bothering.

I have to severely disagree with the statement "while the abusers can pick a new target and start again". We have so many laws on domestic violence, it's not like anyone can just so easily move on to the next victim. We need to enforce the laws we have, if you're a violent person and harm another person, you need to be placed in jail and dealt with that way.

If you are going to place this kind of requirement on marriage, require it on all marriages, regardless of either person’s citizenship.

This law puts a time based restriction on the number of petitions which can be filed. Since when is love and marriage timelines dictated by the govt?

Love and marriage timelines, no. Immigration timelines, most certainly yes, for as long as I can remember. If you just want to meet privately, fall in love, and marry and stay in your foreign spouse's country, this law can't touch you.

A second application puts you in an abusers database to have extra screening, like there isn't enough and this process isn't slow enough?

Since when did your govt decide they have the right to tell us what we must disclose about ourselves prior to ever meeting someone?

It also creates two set of marriage standards. Marry another USC and you have to do nothing. Marry a none USC and you must disclose everything about yourself to the govt, an over seas embassy, and your potential mate.

No, even after passage of this law, you are free to meet whomever you want and marry whomever you want with or without disclosing information about your past. This law only has an effect if you try to bring your foreign spouse or fiancee into the US.

When two people marry, it's a matter between the two of them. But when they decide to use that marriage to bring one of them into the US, it becomes a matter of concern for the rest of US society. There have been too many people seriously harmed by a few abusers of the system, and the taxpayers end up paying to pick up the pieces, while the abusers can pick a new target and start again.

I think the new rules are certainly well intentioned and will probably end up having a net benefit overall. There may be some inconveniences as the details are worked out, of course, but the general sentiment of disclosing one's past to one's potential mate is a good idea.

I agree with this. Too often members of this board forget that immigration is a benefit not a right. There is no inalienable right to petition someone to immigrate to the US. So if you don't like immigration laws, you're welcome to live outside the US. No one will say anything if you fall in love, marry and live in a different part of the world.

The US government doesn't care squat about who you love and marry. It only cares when you try to bring your loved ones into the US.

This is incorrect. The law clearly states you can't even exchange a phone number (or any other contact information) via an international marriage broker unless you hand over full criminal past, regardless if you plan on marriage or even plan on leaving the USA. So obviously the US govt does and is intruding into personal lives, wether or not you plan on bring your future mate to the USA or not.

I should state I am not against the idea of full disclosure.

But it is not the USA govts place to mandate that before I can go on a simple date with someone I might meet over the internet that doesn't live in the USA that I give that person my full criminal history.

It's just wrong. PERIOD.

It's discriminating to people meeting foreigners via international dating agencies. The same rules do not apply to USA dating agencies.

Edited February 23, 2006 by bly

[scy 0]

This law puts a time based restriction on the number of petitions which can be filed. Since when is love and marriage timelines dictated by the govt?

Love and marriage timelines, no. Immigration timelines, most certainly yes, for as long as I can remember. If you just want to meet privately, fall in love, and marry and stay in your foreign spouse's country, this law can't touch you.

A second application puts you in an abusers database to have extra screening, like there isn't enough and this process isn't slow enough?

Since when did your govt decide they have the right to tell us what we must disclose about ourselves prior to ever meeting someone?

It also creates two set of marriage standards. Marry another USC and you have to do nothing. Marry a none USC and you must disclose everything about yourself to the govt, an over seas embassy, and your potential mate.

No, even after passage of this law, you are free to meet whomever you want and marry whomever you want with or without disclosing information about your past. This law only has an effect if you try to bring your foreign spouse or fiancee into the US.

When two people marry, it's a matter between the two of them. But when they decide to use that marriage to bring one of them into the US, it becomes a matter of concern for the rest of US society. There have been too many people seriously harmed by a few abusers of the system, and the taxpayers end up paying to pick up the pieces, while the abusers can pick a new target and start again.

I think the new rules are certainly well intentioned and will probably end up having a net benefit overall. There may be some inconveniences as the details are worked out, of course, but the general sentiment of disclosing one's past to one's potential mate is a good idea.

I agree with this. Too often members of this board forget that immigration is a benefit not a right. There is no inalienable right to petition someone to immigrate to the US. So if you don't like immigration laws, you're welcome to live outside the US. No one will say anything if you fall in love, marry and live in a different part of the world.

The US government doesn't care squat about who you love and marry. It only cares when you try to bring your loved ones into the US.

This is incorrect. The law clearly states you can't even exchange a phone number (or any other contact information) via an international marriage broker unless you hand over full criminal past, regardless if you plan on marriage or even plan on leaving the USA. So obviously the US govt does and is intruding into personal lives, wether or not you plan on bring your future mate to the USA or not.

I should state I am not against the idea of full disclosure.

But it is not the USA govts place to mandate that before I can go on a simple date with someone I might meet over the internet that doesn't live in the USA that I give that person my full criminal history.

It's just wrong. PERIOD.

It's discriminating to people meeting foreigners via international dating agencies. The same rules do not apply to USA dating agencies.

I understand your concerns that international marriage brokers are held to different standards than US marriage brokers. However, Congress has chosen to regulate international marriage brokers out of concerns for US and foreign nationals being abused by criminals. The way I see it, this in no way infringes on your rights to love and marry someone without full disclosure. You can do so, but just don't do so via an international marriage broker.

I see this act as something similar to Congress regulating that one must provide proof of identity when opening a bank account. Although the requirements of this act are higher than merely providing identity, but the idea is similar. If you want to utilize a service that Congress regulates, then you have to follow the laws. If you feel the laws are too onerous to utilize that service, then don't use it or try to change the laws. But I don't see how regulating international marriage brokers infringes on your rights to love and marry. Just like how regulating banks does not infringe on your rights to make and spend money. Now whether Congress has such rights to regulate international marriage brokers is a different question. Although I don't forsee too many court challenges to this law.

Edited February 23, 2006 by scy

[bly 0]

I understand your concerns that international marriage brokers are held to different standards than US marriage brokers. However, Congress has chosen to regulate international marriage brokers out of concerns for US and foreign nationals being abused by criminals. The way I see it, this in no way infringes on your rights to love and marry someone without full disclosure. You can do so, but just don't do so via an international marriage broker.

I see this act as something similar to Congress regulating that one must provide proof of identity when opening a bank account. Although the requirements of this act are higher than merely providing identity, but the idea is similar. If you want to utilize a service that Congress regulates, then you have to follow the laws. If you feel the laws are too onerous to utilize that service, then don't use it or try to change the laws. But I don't see how regulating international marriage brokers infringes on your rights to love and marry. Just like how regulating banks does not infringe on your rights to make and spend money. Now whether Congress has such rights to regulate international marriage brokers is a different question. Although I don't forsee too many court challenges to this law.

I foresee a challenge to the law. I can't see how our govt has the right to tell any one of us that we can't meet people for dating or marriage without first disclosing our entire criminal past.

We do, as a USC have the right to meet anyone, in any way we please, without govt intervention. This is going to come down to a free speech issue. Our govt has stepped into not letting us speak freely with members of the opposite sex via internet dating services without first disclosing our criminal past. What this really comes down to is the USA govt has gone so far as to tell each and everyone of us how we can use the internet for foreign dating and marraige. What's next?

I would expect something like this from China, not from the USA.

I see the ACLU stepping into this one...

Edited February 23, 2006 by bly

[PorknBeanz 0]

Most of the marriage agencies are working on a questionnaire that the USC can sign electronically. They have until March 6, which is the date the law goes into effect.

If the US client goes through a marriage agency the US client is supposed to provide (to the agency) a signed statement of:

1. Any restraining orders, arrest or convictions for mostly violent crimes; but the list also includes assault (which can be yelling at someone in a threatening manner) or an open alcohol container, and prostitution charges. Even if a judge threw out the case or you were found not guilty, you still have to report it.

2. Any previous or current marriages, the marriage and divorce dates, how it ended, and whether you've previously tried to bring an alien into the country.

3. The ages of any children you have under 18.

4. Every state you've lived in since you were 18 years old.

In addition, the marriage agency has to do a check of the sex offender database, and give all this info to any alien you want to write a letter to.

The government and the agency are under no obligation to inform the USC of the alien's background or if the alien has provided false information to you.

All of this information will be verified by the government and anything that they find out about the USC will be added to the list and presented to the alien at the visa interview. The alien will be asked if you met through an agency, which agency, and did they already supply a signed statement? Even if you don't go through an agency, a government background check report will be presented to the alien at the interview.

The law is poorly written, and is unclear whether the visa can be denied if the agency did not provide the signed disclosure statement to the alien, even if you gave one to the agency.

A couple other interesting things about this law: The marriage agency can not post photos of an alien with any children under 18. It also prohibits an agency from giving contact info on an alien to anyone who is not a US client.

http://usaimmigrationattorney.com/images/IMBRA2005.pdf

[bly 0]

Most of the marriage agencies are working on a questionnaire that the USC can sign electronically. They have until March 6, which is the date the law goes into effect.

If the US client goes through a marriage agency the US client is supposed to provide (to the agency) a signed statement of:

1. Any restraining orders, arrest or convictions for mostly violent crimes; but the list also includes assault (which can be yelling at someone in a threatening manner) or an open alcohol container, and prostitution charges. Even if a judge threw out the case or you were found not guilty, you still have to report it.

2. Any previous or current marriages, the marriage and divorce dates, how it ended, and whether you've previously tried to bring an alien into the country.

3. The ages of any children you have under 18.

4. Every state you've lived in since you were 18 years old.

In addition, the marriage agency has to do a check of the sex offender database, and give all this info to any alien you want to write a letter to.

The government and the agency are under no obligation to inform the USC of the alien's background or if the alien has provided false information to you.

All of this information will be verified by the government and anything that they find out about the USC will be added to the list and presented to the alien at the visa interview. The alien will be asked if you met through an agency, which agency, and did they already supply a signed statement? Even if you don't go through an agency, a government background check report will be presented to the alien at the interview.

The law is poorly written, and is unclear whether the visa can be denied if the agency did not provide the signed disclosure statement to the alien, even if you gave one to the agency.

A couple other interesting things about this law: The marriage agency can not post photos of an alien with any children under 18. It also prohibits an agency from giving contact info on an alien to anyone who is not a US client.

http://usaimmigrationattorney.com/images/IMBRA2005.pdf

Pork, you make some good points, not only is it criminal background, but full background on us. How many children, marriages, where we have lived, all of this before we can have her telephone number or meet her in person.

This is a huge burden on internation dating services, and I can't see how it can be legal. There is big money in international dating/marriage. It will be challenged.