This (illegal) American life

[Kang 22]

Are you kidding? Where do you get your info from? Have you traveled outside the US in the last 10 years? Yes folks from Central America and Mexico want to come here, many to get away from all the violence.

Regarding the rest of the world??? I would agree with our statement if you had made it in the 80's or 90's, but in the last 10 years people aren't just sitting all over the world thinking they want to come to America. In fact, it's quite the contrary. Why in the world would people want to come here? 80% of the population is simply miserable trying to get ahead in a rat race. It's amazing. I go to Colombia where the majority of folks make less than $1000/month and are happy as can be. Here in America people who make less than 20k/yr... miserable. People who make $50k/yr... miserable. People who make $100k/yr... miserable. People who make $250k/yr... miserable.

I think you believe that people all over the world want to come to the US. That is just simply not true. The US aint what it used to be, and if you think it is then you are drinking way too much of the kool aid.

It's a funny thing. People from poorer countries come to the US and other wealthier nations in search of green pasture. On the other hand, retirees from richer nations move to poorer nations to max their pensions

[Ready to do it 101]

I think yoy truly believe everything you just wrote. Actually I know you believe it because you said you yourself were a laborer. I have news for you... you are wrong about almost EVERYTHING you just posted.

1) No, that employer will not look at hiring legals, he will close shop.

2) Who cares if many come to work legally if they all close shop.

3) Quality would not rise as a result. I prefer my home being built with a crew of hispanics that have been doing it for 15+ years. Any reputable builder or consumer who has purchased a home will tell you this. I do not YOU building my home. I want the guy who has been doing it for 15+ years.

4) Under your lala land scenario which would never happen as the builder, farmer, or restaurant would simply go out of business before hiring a bunch of legals that are lazy and demand high wages, the cost to buy homes, eat at restaurants, and buy produce at the grocery store would sky-rocket.

I hate to tell you this, but you are a rare breed. There are very few USC willing to do this type of work and quite frankly there are very few consumers that want Joe gringo as a laborer that built his house or want Joe gringo cooking his enchiladas.

Well that employer is going to have to start looking at hiring legals. Makes no difference in that he can persuade Pablo to keep working under the table to save on payroll taxes and insurance. He will have to finally get rid of Pablo and hire legals. Yes there are many that would come here and work legally. In fact many Americans will be glad to work at any job an illegal will do. I even did laborer work when younger. I used to do many of the same jobs that illegals are doing now. There are many reputable businesses that hire legals that have a tough time to compete with one that hires illegals as their labor costs are so much lower. This will even the playing field finally. We can look at quality to rise as a result. If he goes out of business because poor Pablo is gone then too bad. There are others who will thrive as now there are more jobs to bid one and get as a result. Wages will increase and that will make them more attractive to Americans.

[Kang 22]

In my place, despite the large number of Hispanic descent (and illegals), I still see a lot of "gringos" doing menial jobs.

By the way, I am not a gringo.

[Ready to do it 101]

I can't wait till my kids graduate from college. I "might" come back every once in a blue moon. The world has so many great places to live, it's no fun watching people be so miserable, hateful toward others, and always wanting something for themselves.

Smiles, a little kindness and happiness go a long way and I hate to tell you but you just don't see a whole heck of a lot of it in the US. Perhaps I'll try somewhere out in the mountains for a few years before heading off to greener pastures.

It's a funny thing. People from poorer countries come to the US and other wealthier nations in search of green pasture. On the other hand, retirees from richer nations move to poorer nations to max their pensions

[luckytxn 2,265]

Are you kidding? Where do you get your info from? Have you traveled outside the US in the last 10 years? Yes folks from Central America and Mexico want to come here, many to get away from all the violence.

Regarding the rest of the world??? I would agree with our statement if you had made it in the 80's or 90's, but in the last 10 years people aren't just sitting all over the world thinking they want to come to America. In fact, it's quite the contrary. Why in the world would people want to come here? 80% of the population is simply miserable trying to get ahead in a rat race. It's amazing. I go to Colombia where the majority of folks make less than $1000/month and are happy as can be. Here in America people who make less than 20k/yr... miserable. People who make $50k/yr... miserable. People who make $100k/yr... miserable. People who make $250k/yr... miserable.

I think you believe that people all over the world want to come to the US. That is just simply not true. The US aint what it used to be, and if you think it is then you are drinking way too much of the kool aid.

Actually I do travel extensively out of the country and anywhere I go many want to come here. The U.S. is still what it used to be and will for a long time to come. Most people here are actually doing great and have good lives. The lottery we have for a GC is huge in any country that is able to get into it. Always way more apply for that lottery than can get the GC. Always will be that way. If you see the U.S, as being miserable then that is a reflection on you.

[Ready to do it 101]

So true. I think the other exception is US citizens can get SS when they retire. My ex-wife asked me after her 10 year LPR card expired if she should get her citizenship or not. I told her sure, why not. But the truth is, I don't vote, I'm not running for office, and I sure as heck aint planning on getting or relying on SS with the system as broke as it is so what's the point? She's a great woman so I can't ever imagine her getting in any sort of trouble, but hey people get accused of and convicted of crimes they didn't commit all the time...so along that line of thinking, I sure as heck would prefer to get deported from where I came from and where she has family as opposed to spending my life in prison for something I didn't do. So, along that line I'd suggest staying a LPR is the better scenario. She went ahead and got her citizenship. Just got it a few months ago actually.

Here in the US, and LPR has almost as many rights as US citizens except that they are deportable, cannot vote, cannot run for office.

[luckytxn 2,265]

I think yoy truly believe everything you just wrote. Actually I know you believe it because you said you yourself were a laborer. I have news for you... you are wrong about almost EVERYTHING you just posted.

1) No, that employer will not look at hiring legals, he will close shop.

2) Who cares if many come to work legally if they all close shop.

3) Quality would not rise as a result. I prefer my home being built with a crew of hispanics that have been doing it for 15+ years. Any reputable builder or consumer who has purchased a home will tell you this. I do not YOU building my home. I want the guy who has been doing it for 15+ years.

4) Under your lala land scenario which would never happen as the builder, farmer, or restaurant would simply go out of business before hiring a bunch of legals that are lazy and demand high wages, the cost to buy homes, eat at restaurants, and buy produce at the grocery store would sky-rocket.

I hate to tell you this, but you are a rare breed. There are very few USC willing to do this type of work and quite frankly there are very few consumers that want Joe gringo as a laborer that built his house or want Joe gringo cooking his enchiladas.

Good he close shop If he is not able to compete legally then he should close shop.

They all will not close shop. There are many shops and businesses that only hire legally. They will then have more jobs to go after when the incompetent ones are gone.

There are many companies that hire only legals and are quality. Now I go all over the country and especially in my area the worst work is done by the fly by nights that hire illegals. How can a quality product be built using substandard labor? If you can't compete legally and pay the payroll taxes that are required and the insurance needed then you will get less than quality. You get what you pay for.

Americans of many stripes and hues have for generations been doing manual labor the many crafts and done it well. We can again do it and there are many still that do so. I know many craftsmen (and woman) that do an excellent job and I hire them often. I get maybe 4-5 illegal outfits that try to come and bid on a job but I toss their estimates. Usually they can't give me the references anyway and they have never given me their insurance certificates I require. I will not have unlicensed and uninsured workers doing the work I require. If any worker gets hurt they can sue my insurance or me personally. Any group also must be able to provide references and have a good standing in the community. Yes it does cost a bit more to get this quality but it is worth it. I also know many instances where some of he so called "good deals" turned out not to be so. It has happened frequently that they have not finished a job and left with the materials paid for already. Try to find them though when a shoddy job is either incomplete or after the job stuff fall apart. No I require more for my money

People will work if there are jobs. Not long ago they raided a Phoenix area restaurant that had 5 places to eat. The business put an ad for workers and the line to apply was long. It is a fallacy that Americans will not work certain jobs. When you are hungry or have a family to feed you will work.

Also you seem to think if all illegals are gone that only gringos will be around to cook Mexican food. Well there are millions of long time and newer citizens of Mexican Americans in this country that would love to open businesses to cater to us. I happen to think that some gringos are capable though to cook a good Mexican meal though but getting rid of illegals does not mean that we will have no more Mexican Americans but we will have a lot less of Mexican citizens.

I also am sure that many gringos and legal Mexicans will be good laborers and will do the jobs. Our unemployment rate will look better when jobs are there to be had. It is strange that there is anyone that thinks gringos are not capable of doing anything that any other race can do. I guess I am not a snob though so that may make me idealistic. The last crew I had out to do work had 3 gringos and two Hispanic (legal) and one black. They did a great job and will hire them again easily. Excellent quality and I gave them a reference already. We do not have to have illegals here unless we want them. The ones that want them want them for a reason and that is to lessen their labor costs and insurance and undercut the legals. We made it out pretty good here in this country before the illegals over ran us and will survive them leaving. In fact all the positives from them leaving would be on the plus side.

You want illegals to work on your important projects that is on you but most want legals.

[luckytxn 2,265]

In my place, despite the large number of Hispanic descent (and illegals), I still see a lot of "gringos" doing menial jobs.

By the way, I am not a gringo.

I do also see many gringos working the same jobs. The main difference is that gringos want to be paid legally and have the company have insurance in case they get hurt while working.

[Kang 22]

I do see a lot of gringos driving public buses, digging holes, working in fast food restaurants and other yknow, typical minimum wage jobs. The statement "gringos" don't do menial jobs is so stretched out. I even see gringos taking public buses.

Edited October 14, 2011 by Kang

[Ready to do it 101]

You seem to always equate illegals with under the table payments. Sure, it occurs. But there are more using fake SS#, who are insured by their employer, who do pay Fed Inc tax, and whose employers do pay SS taxes on then there are illegals getting paid under the table.

Have you read any of the articles of states now going belly up due to new immigration laws passed in states that depend on agriculture?

You assume that illegal means, no payroll wages, SS taxes, fed income tax etc. That is false. How else would all of these millions of illegals purchase and get loans for homes, cars, appliances, etc? Heck, every single one of them has credit with Conns. They have to show a paycheck and W2 for these things.

I think many people on this board simply think that illegals don't pay taxes, don't have insurance, don't use credit etc. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but most illegals are just like me and you they just simply aren't legal. They have all the same material possessions, they get all the same loans, their kids go to all the same schools (including private schools), some of them make 6 figure incomes (most do not), and as I said before... most of them are a heck of a lot better than us at the menial jobs and I know for a fact that most have better credit than their white and black counterparts in the same income brackets. Now, is this representative of ALL illegals? No, of course not, but it is the facts of many of them... millions. Without them, the US would suffer tremendously in every facet.

Good he close shop If he is not able to compete legally then he should close shop.

They all will not close shop. There are many shops and businesses that only hire legally. They will then have more jobs to go after when the incompetent ones are gone.

There are many companies that hire only legals and are quality. Now I go all over the country and especially in my area the worst work is done by the fly by nights that hire illegals. How can a quality product be built using substandard labor? If you can't compete legally and pay the payroll taxes that are required and the insurance needed then you will get less than quality. You get what you pay for.

Americans of many stripes and hues have for generations been doing manual labor the many crafts and done it well. We can again do it and there are many still that do so. I know many craftsmen (and woman) that do an excellent job and I hire them often. I get maybe 4-5 illegal outfits that try to come and bid on a job but I toss their estimates. Usually they can't give me the references anyway and they have never given me their insurance certificates I require. I will not have unlicensed and uninsured workers doing the work I require. If any worker gets hurt they can sue my insurance or me personally. Any group also must be able to provide references and have a good standing in the community. Yes it does cost a bit more to get this quality but it is worth it. I also know many instances where some of he so called "good deals" turned out not to be so. It has happened frequently that they have not finished a job and left with the materials paid for already. Try to find them though when a shoddy job is either incomplete or after the job stuff fall apart. No I require more for my money

People will work if there are jobs. Not long ago they raided a Phoenix area restaurant that had 5 places to eat. The business put an ad for workers and the line to apply was long. It is a fallacy that Americans will not work certain jobs. When you are hungry or have a family to feed you will work.

Also you seem to think if all illegals are gone that only gringos will be around to cook Mexican food. Well there are millions of long time and newer citizens of Mexican Americans in this country that would love to open businesses to cater to us. I happen to think that some gringos are capable though to cook a good Mexican meal though but getting rid of illegals does not mean that we will have no more Mexican Americans but we will have a lot less of Mexican citizens.

I also am sure that many gringos and legal Mexicans will be good laborers and will do the jobs. Our unemployment rate will look better when jobs are there to be had. It is strange that there is anyone that thinks gringos are not capable of doing anything that any other race can do. I guess I am not a snob though so that may make me idealistic. The last crew I had out to do work had 3 gringos and two Hispanic (legal) and one black. They did a great job and will hire them again easily. Excellent quality and I gave them a reference already. We do not have to have illegals here unless we want them. The ones that want them want them for a reason and that is to lessen their labor costs and insurance and undercut the legals. We made it out pretty good here in this country before the illegals over ran us and will survive them leaving. In fact all the positives from them leaving would be on the plus side.

You want illegals to work on your important projects that is on you but most want legals.

[Kang 22]

I really wouldn't rely on "articles". For most part, most are slanted towards their opinions (regardless if they are pro or against immigration). Journalists nowadays have turned into something as manipulative as politicians. A lot of them could not even distinguish citizenship from greencard.

Just take a look at the case of Jose Antonio Vargas. He claims he is a "Pulitzer prize winner". That is partially true, but how come he NEVER mentions that the Pulitzer prize was awarded to his TEAM, not to him as an individual?

Edited October 14, 2011 by Kang

[Ready to do it 101]

I'm sure it varies among cities. Regarding buses, in my city it's all black folks... ditto the post office. Digging holes? Never paid attention to it. Fast food restaurants... at the counter I've seen what look to be white high school folks. I rarely eat fast food though.

Honestly, while I don't wish ill will upon anyone, I really have no compassion for a white male or female stuck working a minimum wage job or trying to compete with blacks or hispanics for those type of jobs. White folks have it so much easier in this world. If one doesn't have the common sense to go get an education to better himself then it should be that person that suffers the consequences. Student loans are available to everyone. If someone didn't do well enough in high school to get accepted into a university, it's their own problem... not the government's problem and not the US tax payers problem. The reason I appear to be so in favor of hispanics over whites (even though I myself am 100% white) is because hispanics do a much better job at hard labor positions, are more passionate and appreciative of the job, and have more loyalty. As for fast food, I really could care less who hands me the bag of food... but it is a shame that any white would have to work for minimum wage. It simply means they are an underachiever or did not see the benefit of a college education. Thus in my book, it is they who should suffer the consequence and it's that type of person that it sickens me to know that my taxes pay for their free social handouts. I'd prefer my tax $$$ going to an illegal alien any day of the week over any USC that didn't or doesn't have the willpower to go help himself/herself. As I've stated though, social programs should just be done away with for everyone, legal or illegal anyhow.

I do see a lot of gringos driving public buses, digging holes, working in fast food restaurants and other yknow, typical minimum wage jobs. The statement "gringos" don't do menial jobs is so stretched out. I even see gringos taking public buses.

Edited October 14, 2011 by Ready to do it

[Kang 22]

I'd rather credit "hardworking" to individual basis rather ones ethnicity. I've seen lazy hispanics, lazy asians, lazy whites, lazy blacks.

I come from a "minority" but I am not in favor of "affirmative action". I am not sure why is it a "shame" for whites to work for minimum wage.

It's ironic. People complain whites won't work for minimum wage, yet people say that it is a shame they have to work for minimum wage

[Fandango 1,440]

Can't wait. I can only imagine what my favorite enchilida dinner cooked by el gringo and homey are going to taste like. Yeaaaaaaahhh! I imagine that dinner price will increase as well. Not! Many restuarants, many farm growers, many builders will simply go out of business. Guess what... now how much is that produce going to cost us at the supermarket?

Looking for immigrants to come here from other countries legally? What does one have to do with the other? In fact, if you want to look for immigrants from other countries to come here legally THEY WILL take jobs that some folks actually want. Bottom line, the majority of the work that illegals do is irreplaceable. There is no one willing to do them and if there were... the wage those willing to do the work that illegals did would be too high for any of the industries I mentioned above to stay in business anyhow. Your proposal simply puts out of business many folks and then you not only want to put many folks out of business, you think by doing so means we can thing bring in folks legally who WILL take jobs away from US citizens, which creates an even bigger problem. You just proposed significantly increasing unemployment and getting rid of 20 million consumers. That's a fantastic idea, not!

They are only as valuable as ther immigration status keeps them. I don't think you realize you're exposing the benefits of exploiting a subculture of illegal workers who work for peanuts BECAUSE they are illegal. Slave labor.

Enjoy your cheap lettuce and enchiladas

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

They are only as valuable as ther immigration status keeps them. I don't think you realize you're exposing the benefits of exploiting a subculture of illegal workers who work for peanuts BECAUSE they are illegal. Slave labor.

Enjoy your cheap lettuce and enchiladas