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Filed: Lift. Cond. (apr) Country: China
Timeline
Posted

Get married, apply for AOS, your AP and EAD. When EAD received then you can work. It is presumed that on K1 you can work, employers need a EAD.You can get your SSS card two week's after entry on K1.

In Arizona its hot hot hot.

http://www.uscis.gov/dateCalculator.html

Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Morocco
Timeline
Posted

Congrats on the marriage and not all is bad for the job situation atleast you know that you have the potential to find a job and that is a great plus for your confidence. I am sure it puts your hubby at ease knowing you can quickly begin contributing as soon as you are able to work.

Good luck,

Posted

okay...thanks again! this is very helpful. i'm going to have to call the people who just hired me and be straight with them. if it's really for me, then it'll be waiting for me.

There are many on this thread who say you are not legally allowed to work until you have an EAD or a Green Card. However, I have read elsewhere where others, including immigration attorneys, said it's legal for a K-1 to work as soon as they get their Social Security number.

The people who say you can work right away seem to rely on this document from the Social Security Administration.

Here is the relevant part of the SSA document:

G. Policy for employment authorization by Class of Admission (COA)

1. Aliens employment-authorized without specific DHS authorization

The following chart lists, by COA code, non-immigrants authorized to work in the U.S. without specific authorization from DHS. The alien’s I-94 showing one of the following COAs has employment authorization unless otherwise noted. The I-94 will not have the DHS employment authorization stamp and the alien will generally not have an EAD.

K-1

Fiancé(e) of U.S. citizen.

I realize that the SSA is not the one who sets work policy and, instead, it's the job of the USCIS, and the USCIS says different. However, if one showed this SSA document to an employer who didn't use E-Verify, the employer would almost certainly be convinced that the K-1 is allowed to work. Nevermind the J-9 the employer fills out. Employers don't send them anywhere. They just keep them on file.

I wish some of you K-1ers would settle this question once and for all. Once you get your Social Security number, and before your I-94 expires, do a self check. Just use the link Inky provided to go to the Self-Check E-Verify website. Let us know what you find out. Are you authorized to work...or not.

Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Nigeria
Timeline
Posted

There have been many posts from experienced people that say K1 is not work authorized. The response from experienced people is consistant. It is againt VJ regulations to suggest to present documents to trick an employeer to let someone work illegally. Why would you want to create trouble for someone just coming to the country ?

This will not be over quickly. You will not enjoy this.

Posted

Her SSN will probably say it requires a DHS work authorization. (for example, the EAD or GreenCard) -- since she will not have either - the employer can't legally have her work.

When it comes to employment, it may not matter whether it says anything on the card about requiring DHS work authorization because employers don't ask to see the card. They simply require you to provide them with the Social Security number.

Posted

There have been many posts from experienced people that say K1 is not work authorized. The response from experienced people is consistant. It is againt VJ regulations to suggest to present documents to trick an employeer to let someone work illegally. Why would you want to create trouble for someone just coming to the country ?

Are you saying that experienced lay people can't be wrong about such a gray area of immigration law? If the experienced VJers believe it to be illegal, I welcome them to post their evidence, just as I've posted my evidence.

What is trickery about the Social Security Administration document I posted? It says K-1ers can work. Did you even read it?

Did you miss the part of my post that said immigration lawyers disagree over this issue?

Did you also miss the part of my post where I suggested that K-1ers use the Self-Check E-Verify system to verify their eligibility to work?

Where is the TOS violation?

Personally, I believe the USCIS has the final say, and they don't allow K-1ers to work before they have a SSN and an EAD. However, they say it in such a roundabout way that it remains unclear in the face of evidence like the SS document.

Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Canada
Timeline
Posted (edited)

The above quoted form is only half the issue. K-1s are employment authorized by the policy document https://secure.ssa.g...!opendocument#g

K-1s, however, also need to satisfy a second document issued by USCIS/Department of Homeland Security before they can legally work. All individuals employed within the US must satisfy the requirements of form I-9. Every employer is required to ensure their employees provide either 1 document from List A or documents from both List B and List C.

A K-1 does not have a document listed in List A and will not have a document listed in List C. They will have a document listed in List B so until they obtain a document listed in List C or List A they are not eligible to work. The only document that they can obtain from List C or List A until they get their green card is an Employment Authorization document.

http://www.uscis.gov...es/form/i-9.pdf

List A documents verify both identity and employment authorization. and are restricted to:

a) US Passport/passport card;

b) Permanent Resident card of Alien Registration receipt form I-551 (aka green card or green card passport stamp)

c) Foreign passport that contains an I-551 stamp on a machine readable Immigrant visa

d) EAD that contains a photograph

e) if the employee is authorized to work for a specific employer incident to status, a foreign passport with an unexpired I-94 or I-94A and the employment is not subject to any restrictions. (This means someone who has been sponsored by an employer for a specific job and is waiting for proof of that status).

f) foreign passport from Micronesia or the Marshall Islands with an I-94 or I-94 A i indicating non-immigrant admission on the Compact of Free Association between the US and FSM or RMI

These are the only documents accepted under List A so a K-1 visa does not fit List A. That means a K-1 visa applicant must provide a document from both List B and List C.

List B - documents that establish identity - are restricted to:

a) DL or State D card with specified personal information and photograph;

b) ID issued by Federal, State or Municipal government specified personal information and photograph

c) School ID with photograph

d) voter registration card

e) US military card or draft record

f) Military dependent card

g) US Coast Card Merchant Mariner Card

h) Native American Tribal Document

h) Canadian DL .

These are the only documents accepted under List B. A k-1 may have one or more of these available, most possibly their foreign passport (Federally issued document); a military dependent ID card, a state ID card or DL, or a Canadian DL. All but the foreign passport take time to acquire and may not be obtainable within the 90 day time frame for the K-1 authorized stay

List C - documents that establish employment authorization - are restricted to:

a) unrestricted SSN card

b) form 545 - Certification of Birth Abroad (US citizen) issued by DOS

c) form - 1350 Certification of Birth issued by DOS

d) Original or certified copy of certificate of birth issued by any State, County, Municipality or US territory bearing an official seal

e) Native American Tribal Document

f) US Citizen ID card - form I-197

g) Identification Card of Resident Citizen in the US - form I-179

h) EAD issued by the Department of Homeland Security.

A K-1 will not have any of the documents from List C so will not meet the requirements of the I-9 which is required for employment verification, thus they are not able to work until they satisfy the requirements of form I-9. A K-1 therefore requires an EAD in order to work before they obtain their green card, whether they are here during the authorized 90 day stay of theI-94 or after marriage and waiting for the AOS approval.

Edited by Kathryn41

“...Isn't it splendid to think of all the things there are to find out about? It just makes me feel glad to be alive--it's such an interesting world. It wouldn't be half so interesting if we knew all about everything, would it? There'd be no scope for imagination then, would there?”

. Lucy Maude Montgomery, Anne of Green Gables

5892822976_477b1a77f7_z.jpg

Another Member of the VJ Fluffy Kitty Posse!

Posted

When it comes to employment, it may not matter whether it says anything on the card about requiring DHS work authorization because employers don't ask to see the card. They simply require you to provide them with the Social Security number.

Simple answer is that to legally work a person on K-1 has to file a I-765 and receive an Employment authorization. Your right about E-verify and the SSN, but the other part your missing is that the employyer has to have the identfication required in the I-9 file as the other poster stated.

So yes a K-1 holder can work, but has to file a I-765 and have it approved to satisfy the requirements of the law regarding I-9 docs.

And I might add that any Visa attorney who disagrees with that probally is in the wrong line of work.

Posted

The above quoted form is only half the issue. K-1s are employment authorized by the policy document https://secure.ssa.g...!opendocument#g

K-1s, however, also need to satisfy a second document issued by USCIS/Department of Homeland Security before they can legally work. All individuals employed within the US must satisfy the requirements of form I-9. Every employer is required to ensure their employees provide either 1 document from List A or documents from both List B and List C.

A K-1 does not have a document listed in List A and will not have a document listed in List C. They will have a document listed in List B so until they obtain a document listed in List C or List A they are not eligible to work. The only document that they can obtain from List C or List A until they get their green card is an Employment Authorization document.

http://www.uscis.gov...es/form/i-9.pdf

List A documents verify both identity and employment authorization. and are restricted to:

a) US Passport/passport card;

b) Permanent Resident card of Alien Registration receipt form I-551 (aka green card or green card passport stamp)

c) Foreign passport that contains an I-551 stamp on a machine readable Immigrant visa

d) EAD that contains a photograph

e) if the employee is authorized to work for a specific employer incident to status, a foreign passport with an unexpired I-94 or I-94A and the employment is not subject to any restrictions. (This means someone who has been sponsored by an employer for a specific job and is waiting for proof of that status).

f) foreign passport from Micronesia or the Marshall Islands with an I-94 or I-94 A i indicating non-immigrant admission on the Compact of Free Association between the US and FSM or RMI

These are the only documents accepted under List A so a K-1 visa does not fit List A. That means a K-1 visa applicant must provide a document from both List B and List C.

List B - documents that establish identity - are restricted to:

a) DL or State D card with specified personal information and photograph;

b) ID issued by Federal, State or Municipal government specified personal information and photograph

c) School ID with photograph

d) voter registration card

e) US military card or draft record

f) Military dependent card

g) US Coast Card Merchant Mariner Card

h) Native American Tribal Document

h) Canadian DL .

These are the only documents accepted under List B. A k-1 may have one or more of these available, most possibly their foreign passport (Federally issued document); a military dependent ID card, a state ID card or DL, or a Canadian DL. All but the foreign passport take time to acquire and may not be obtainable within the 90 day time frame for the K-1 authorized stay

List C - documents that establish employment authorization - are restricted to:

a) unrestricted SSN card

b) form 545 - Certification of Birth Abroad (US citizen) issued by DOS

c) form - 1350 Certification of Birth issued by DOS

d) Original or certified copy of certificate of birth issued by any State, County, Municipality or US territory bearing an official seal

e) Native American Tribal Document

f) US Citizen ID card - form I-197

g) Identification Card of Resident Citizen in the US - form I-179

h) EAD issued by the Department of Homeland Security.

A K-1 will not have any of the documents from List C so will not meet the requirements of the I-9 which is required for employment verification, thus they are not able to work until they satisfy the requirements of form I-9. A K-1 therefore requires an EAD in order to work before they obtain their green card, whether they are here during the authorized 90 day stay of theI-94 or after marriage and waiting for the AOS approval.

Your spot on !!!

Posted

Are you saying that experienced lay people can't be wrong about such a gray area of immigration law? If the experienced VJers believe it to be illegal, I welcome them to post their evidence, just as I've posted my evidence.

What is trickery about the Social Security Administration document I posted? It says K-1ers can work. Did you even read it?

Did you miss the part of my post that said immigration lawyers disagree over this issue?

Did you also miss the part of my post where I suggested that K-1ers use the Self-Check E-Verify system to verify their eligibility to work?

Where is the TOS violation?

Personally, I believe the USCIS has the final say, and they don't allow K-1ers to work before they have a SSN and an EAD. However, they say it in such a roundabout way that it remains unclear in the face of evidence like the SS document.

Little off topic but I would also add that the I-9 requirements and lack of reporting is what has allowed illegal immigration in this country to become so rampant. An employer is required to collect the I-9 docs but not to verify or report them. Many Many industries with a wink and a nod accept documents of questionable authenticity, since they are not required to verify or report. . If caught they are legally covered unless they Govt can prove conspiracy charges, and have charged some under the RICO statue.

Some states are moving in the right direction with a requirement to use E-verify, as an addition to using the I-9 check list.. E-verify is still volunteer in most states. Odd as it may seem it is against the law to sue E-verify to check the status of workers already employed.

Posted

Kathryn41...Thank you for taking the time to respond to an issue which interests me.

In response to your well-reasoned post, consider this:

I agree with you regarding the need for a document from both List B and from List C. Since establishing identity (List B) can easily be satisfied with a passport or a State ID card, lets move on to List C.

To satisfy the List C requirement, I'm suggesting that a K-1er could get an employment-authorized Social Security Card by checking the box on the SS-5 Application for a Social Security Card" which reads "Legal Alien Allowed To Work." This would establish employment authorization. The K-1er could receive their unrestricted SS card a couple of weeks or so after arriving in the U.S.

Question 1: If a K-1er applied for a Social Security Card as a "Legal Alien Allowed To Work," is there any evidence that it would be denied by the USCIS data base - which I understand the SSA routinely uses?

Question 2: If the SSA issued an unrestricted SS Card to a K-1er, is there any evidence that an employer's E-Verify check would result in finding the K-1er unauthorized for employment? This presumably would have been the second time the K-1er's info had been run through the USCIS data base.

On a side note, employers who don't use E-Verify can't require employees to give them a Social Security number. The following is from the "USCIS Handbook for Employers: Instructions for Completing Form I-9":

Providing a Social Security number on Form I-9 is voluntary for all employees unless you are an employer participating in the USCIS E-Verify program, which requires an employee’s Social Security number for employment eligibility verification.

You may not ask an employee to provide you a specific document with his or her Social Security number on it. To do so may constitute unlawful discrimination.

Q. Can an employee leave any part of Section 1 of Form I-9 blank?

A. Employees must complete every applicable field in Section 1 of Form I-9 with the exception of the field requesting the employee’s Social Security number. However, employees must enter their Social Security number in this field if you participate in E-Verify.

Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Canada
Timeline
Posted (edited)

When a K-1 visa holder applies for a SSN they do check off 'authorized to work'. They are listed in that category. However, when they receive their SSN card it will have a stamp on the back of it 'Not authorized to work without USCIS/DHS authority" or words that that effect. They get a restricted SSN. When they get their actual green card they are allowed to apply for a non-restricted SSN, so again they would not have a satisfactory document from List 3 until they have an unrestricted SSN.

While the employer cannot request what type of document the individual supplies to verify their employability, they do have the right to see the document the potential employee provides to satisfy that requirement. Since the only possible other document a K-1 might have is the SSN card, once they show the card the employer then sees that it states not eligible for work without DHS authorization. That is the catch 22. If the K-1 had another type of document that would satisfy List 3 then they would not be required to submit their SSN card to satisfy that requirement.

They are, however, required by the IRS to provide the SSN to any employer if they wish to be paid in order for taxes and other withholds to be made and forwarded to the IRS. The restricted SSN does come up as not eligible to work when you search for it on e-verify ( mine did at any rate).

If you wish to take this discussion much further you will be entering a slippery slope of appearing to suggest that someone tries to find a way to work when they fail to satisfy the requirements of the I-9 form. Any employer who hires a K-1 visa holder without an EAD is basically hiring an alien who is not legally eligible to be employed in the US under the existing regulations. Trying to find a way around this is not a useful exercise and comes dangerously close to violating the TOS for Visa Journey of suggesting someone knowingly follows an illegal course of action.

Edited by Kathryn41

“...Isn't it splendid to think of all the things there are to find out about? It just makes me feel glad to be alive--it's such an interesting world. It wouldn't be half so interesting if we knew all about everything, would it? There'd be no scope for imagination then, would there?”

. Lucy Maude Montgomery, Anne of Green Gables

5892822976_477b1a77f7_z.jpg

Another Member of the VJ Fluffy Kitty Posse!

Posted

When a K-1 visa holder applies for a SSN they do check off 'authorized to work'. They are listed in that category. However, when they receive their SSN card it will have a stamp on the back of it 'Not authorized to work without USCIS/DHS authority" or words that that effect. They get a restricted SSN. When they get their actual green card they are allowed to apply for a non-restricted SSN, so again they would not have a satisfactory document from List 3 until they have an unrestricted SSN.

While the employer cannot request what type of document the individual supplies to verify their employability, they do have the right to see the document the potential employee provides to satisfy that requirement. Since the only possible other document a K-1 might have is the SSN card, once they show the card the employer then sees that it states not eligible for work without DHS authorization. That is the catch 22. If the K-1 had another type of document that would satisfy List 3 then they would not be required to submit their SSN card to satisfy that requirement.

They are, however, required by the IRS to provide the SSN to any employer if they wish to be paid in order for taxes and other withholds to be made and forwarded to the IRS. The restricted SSN does come up as not eligible to work when you search for it on e-verify ( mine did at any rate).

If you wish to take this discussion much further you will be entering a slippery slope of appearing to suggest that someone tries to find a way to work when they fail to satisfy the requirements of the I-9 form. Any employer who hires a K-1 visa holder is basically hiring an alien who is not legally eligible to be employed in the US under the existing regulations. Trying to find a way around this is not a useful exercise and comes dangerously close to violating the TOS for Visa Journey of suggesting someone knowingly follows an illegal course of action.

My wife, Chinook, was a K-1er. She applied for a SSN a week after her POE and received a restricted card about a week later. Shortly after we were married, she filed for a name change on her SS Card. About a week later, she received an unrestricted card. She received the card about four weeks before her I-94 expired. Of course, she wouldn't have had a conditional Green Card at that time.

Since she had an unrestricted SS Card, I'm thinking that she would have been legally allowed to work if she had wanted to. She never applied for another SS Card after she received her unrestricted one. About a year later she got a job with an employer who uses E-Verify and she had no problem with her SS Card. I took it to mean that the SS Card she received during her I-94 period was a work-authorized card.

It should be noted in the second paragraph of your response that you are talking only about employers who use E-Verify. It would not apply to other employers. I do see your point though...an E-Verify employer is going to notice your SS Card doesn't authorize you to work.

Finally, it's a mystery to me why there can't be a serious discussion here on VJ about a topic about in which there are so many questions. To say that the issue is long-ago and undeniably settled is ignoring the fact that there is disagreement about it even among immigration attorneys. Also, it should be readily apparent that your personal K-1 experience has been very different than mine in regards to the SS Card issue.

Finally, I'm not advocating anything illegal and I have no intention to do so.

 
Didn't find the answer you were looking for? Ask our VJ Immigration Lawyers.

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