help needed

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I mean, you guys don't think you're being a wee bit paranoid? Seed companies? Really? People are going to go full-on Zombie Apocalypse and attack your house and loot stores for rations?

It happened after the hurricane in New Orleans.

But I am not into seeds and stuff. I have plenty of guns and bullets to trade for produce.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

.40 S&W

Good cartridge. Nearly .45 power in 9mm size. Better than the 9mm any day.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I have so much hunting gear I have collected over the years I think I have plenty of stuff which could be used for survival/camping. My ace in the hole is a couple of melting pots, dozens of bullet molds and tons (literally many tons) of wheelweights to make bullets. I figure bullets would be pretty valuable trading stock

[eekee 182]

It happened after the hurricane in New Orleans.

But I am not into seeds and stuff. I have plenty of guns and bullets to trade for produce.

That was a natural disaster, though.

[slim 1,523]

Lviv, I'm going to have to answer you in another post. Too many cut and pastes here.

eekee, just a quick blurb about you - stay in Russia. It will be hit way less hard by international financial collapse due to it's infrastructure alone. America is set up for driving everywhere and almost every city imports it's food from somewhere else. In Russia you can walk to your food supply and collectively, society will more than likely work together to benefit each other.

Who knows if the "new Russians" will do so but the Soviet-era Russians are more than capable of banding together to survive. It's almost like it's in their DNA. Americans, on the other hand, have always relied on Big Brother to get the job done and have historically done very little to survive as a community. Yes, Rosie Riveter went to work at the factory but the War Dept. still made sure everything was coordinated. In Russia, they didn't need that coordination because they took care of it locally. The infrastructure hasn't changed much since those days.

Don't forget your solar / hand crank flashlight and radio.

I personally don't like the looks/lines of Glocks....but they are very solid and trustworthy.

My preference for hit the road will be my M-14....in .308. I also have a RRA AR-15 Match that would be a second carry.

I do not waste weight on a flashlight. Believe it or not, humans can see quite well in the dark once they're accustomed to it. It won't take long once the power goes out. If you're somewhere that you need light, you can build a fire. Too dangerous for a fire? Too dangerous for light!

And a radio? For what? So I can listen to the propaganda?

I don't personally like the Glock either but a million people use it so it can't be all that bad.

M-14 is a fine, fine, fine battle rifle. But it's heavy!

I have so much hunting gear I have collected over the years I think I have plenty of stuff which could be used for survival/camping. My ace in the hole is a couple of melting pots, dozens of bullet molds and tons (literally many tons) of wheelweights to make bullets. I figure bullets would be pretty valuable trading stock

Keep in mind whom you'll be trading with. Don't most of the folks up your way also have all that stuff? Maybe not in the quantities you have, but if they have ammo already, what would they need with another dozen rounds?

As a non-drinker, it would be easy for you to stockpile Jack Daniels!

[Dustin C 12]

That was a natural disaster, though.

eekee, you don't get it... Did you see all of the people who put their whole faith in the government to take care of themselves? They were left stranded in their "public housing" apartments, on houses, and on bridges and Mayor Nagen (D) and the female governor (D) at the time had no plan and let all of those public transportation buses get flooded instead of putting them to use. Also, look at all of the looters that disrespected others' property and businesses. It was a madhouse.... Yet, look at Japan after their earthquake and nuclear issues, not one report of looting...

That incident in New Orleans awoke me to realize that I must be self sustaining and stand on my own two feet. So now I prepare for the worst and hope for the best in anything I do.

When ####### hits the fan (natural or economic disaster), are you going to rely on someone else (or government) to change your diaper, or are you going to rise up and fight to survive?

[slim 1,523]

Slim, thanks a ton for all the detailed recommendations and info! Extremely useful stuff!

I don't have a copyright on it, so pass it on. The more like-minded folks we can get knowledgeable about this sort of thing, the better. Perhaps we can stave off disaster even by being prepared for what's coming.

The other thing that's really nice about this too is the more you get into it, the more nice folks you'll meet. Amazing that "crazy gun nuts" are folks that'll open up their homes to folks who were complete strangers and share every bit of knowledge they have with you simply because you're a "crazy gun nut" too. There's something about people who "get it" and it's really nice to be able to network with them.

Do so as soon as possible. Find a few in your local area. First-hand knowledge beats a website any day!

My brother's got an AR-15 in his arsenal as well. I completely agree about ammo being new currency. That and food. I've bought gold and silver in the past also, but you know you can't eat that and it won't protect you either so....

Gold and silver are useless during crisis. After everything settles down, they may be worth something but I'd rather have a chicken over an ounce of gold any day. I got into it hot and heavy one day with a co-worker who was telling me I was silly for buying ammo when I should be buying gold. I told him to save his commments for when I'm pointing my rifle at his wife and daughter and he's pointing his gold bars back at me.

Think in practical terms. What would you need if there was no electric anymore? It sounds like you're aware of what could happen. "Pretty much the worst parts of the Bible."

Many poeple will tell you to start your preps small, something like buying an extra can of soup each week at the grocery. While that's great, and you should be doing that, it's completely backwards of how you should be prepping. Don't prepare for a storm that knocks the power out for a few hours. Prepare for the storm that rips the interstate power grid completely out of the ground and there's nobody coming to fix it.

I'm really wanting to squirrel away about a year's worth of stuff for the whole family. Probably a mix of all the things you mentioned above. We live on a good-sized lake so we've got good water supply (and fish too). Any idea how long twinkies keep?

If you're dependent upon that lake as your water supply make sure you have a way to treat the water should it become contaminated. That could be something as simple as boiling it or as complex as a Bekey water filtration system. Keep in mind it's good to have something portable as well should you need to relocate. Iodine pills or a hand-crank work well. There are some pretty neat UV filters out there now but they're somewhat pricey and use those pesky battery thingies. (Whenever possible, use another form of power than batteries. Murphy WILL show up when you need battery power.)

Since you could possibly stay there, you should start stockpiling "normal" food in your basement. Each time you go to Costco or Sams just pick up an extra thing of whatever you're buying. Rotate your stock and you'll be just fine.

Keep in mind your typical heating/cooling source (electric and/or natural gas) will probably not be available and an alternate method will be necessary. Start installing solar now if possible. Maybe a generator if you need one. A good wood burner or pellet stove is a decent option if you can store the fuel in quantity. Another option would be some sort of hydro or wind power since you're there on the lake.

Start asking around. I bet you have a neighbor or two already on this stuff as well. You guys have a natural safe haven as long as you can defend it. If you drive through your neighborhood and see some funny antennae sticking out of someone's barn or back yard, chances are that person is a HAM operator and those dudes have been doing this for ages. Ask that guy first. Approach slowly, but directly. "Hey man, I see you have that radio tower up there.... I'm thinking about getting into that sort of thing. Not necessarily HAM, per se, but all the OTHER stuff." He'll know what you're talking about. Don't expect too much on the first date... but by the third date, you should be able to close the deal!

Twinkies? I'm not sure (there's a bunch of stuff out there on this though) but I know they'd keep for a year or two pretty easily.

We have a small area to grow stuff in and it works pretty good. The wife has grown quite a few things over the years cause she's into that. I've never eaten any of it yet, but I could in a pinch. We are looking into some nearby farmland as well, just in case.

It takes a lot of land to grow food. A vegetable garden is not enough to sustain a family - or even one person - for very long. But, it's good to grow what you can and the best option I've seen for doing that is raised bed gardening. Check out the Backwoods Home magazine or website for ideas on stuff like that.

I don't get into gardening because I'm a carnivore. I'd much rather use that real estate for things like goats, rabbits, chickens, hogs, etc.

This is where networking comes into play. If you have tomatoes you can trade them for your neighbor's eggs. If you have a rabbit you can trade your neighbor for his help in chopping fire wood.

Sounds like you've though about this quite a bit! Just out of curiosity, what scenario are you envisioning may unfold?

I've given more thought to this than anyone my age (or income level!) should and I hate to say it but I don't think it's a question of if it's going to happen... but WHEN it's going to happen. Like you said the global economy is way more fragile than people realize. Our society in America is only a few short weeks (if we're lucky) away from total collapse at any given time.

I see a couple different scenarios being possible. They could happen one at a time or they could play out simultaneously. It may take only one or it may take a combination of things.

1. Financial Collapse.

Over just a few short weeks (if we're lucky) our dollar - along with every other currency on this planet - is worthless. People will stop working because they're no longer getting paid and/or the money they're paid doesn't buy them anything. In America that'll mean the power goes out and the food trucks stop coming. Within days there'll be full scale riots in every major metro area and anyone who has anything will relocate to a more secure location and start guarding what they have. Within weeks fuel and food sources will be exhausted and "basically, the worst parts of the Bible" will begin to happen.

2. Natural Disaster.

Earthquake, tsunami, volcanoes, hurricanes, solar flares - or a combination of all those things - could lead to a catastrophe so huge it would create a financial collapse or conditions where folks were no longer able to function as they had before. When it happens somewhere like Haiti, big freakin deal. Life returned to "normal" in a few days. Normal = f'd up. Around here (and in China, India, Europe, etc. - and let's really hope nothing happens to the oil in the ME) if life couldn't carry on as normal for even a few days the global economy would take a hit. What if it happens in two places at once? Three? The earth has been recreating itself since long before we were here and it'll be doing it long after we're gone. Once we take a global hit to the economy, it's likely in America that'll mean the power goes out and the food trucks stop coming. Within days there'll be full scale riots in every major metro area and anyone who has anything will relocate to a more secure location and start guarding what they have. Within weeks fuel and food sources will be exhausted and "basically, the worst parts of the Bible" will begin to happen.

3. War.

Still, and always, a concern. One of my biggest fears is Israel and Iran are going to go at it and we're going to have to pick a side - as is China, Russia, India, etc. It's very doubtful we'd all end up on the same side. I'm not too biblical, but there's a reason that 4,000 year old book has stuck around for so long. The Middle Eastern countries will also have to pick sides (Israel anyone? Anyone?) and once that die is cast... it's Armageddon. If that happens, we're likely to see a global financial meltdown and in America that'll mean the power goes out and the food trucks stop coming. Within days there'll be full scale riots in every major metro area and anyone who has anything will relocate to a more secure location and start guarding what they have. Within weeks fuel and food sources will be exhausted and "basically, the worst parts of the Bible" will begin to happen.

4. Terror Attack.

It's widely whispered China has the capability to attack our infrastructure with EMP. But, that's not the biggy. Buddha set them up long ago with what's called the Jet Stream. All they really need to do is set up a few dozen container ships in international waters and release biotoxins. Everything west of the Rockies would be dead in a matter of days and there'd still be some casualties all the way into the midwest. The east coast could be hit with dirty bombs, etc., and all our ports could be simultaneously wasted with something simple like sappers. The crazies from ME have long planned to hit us with bio/nuc weapons and if they did so in a simultaneous attack in a few major cities, it'd be lights out for the U.S. of A. Look how much harm Katrina caused and that was only a "small" area of the US. It didn't even really hit our pocket books. Couple that with 9/11 in not only NY but also LA, Chicago, Denver, Atlanta, etc., and we'd be f'd. And that's before we even get into things like the water supply for the SW, the power grid, nuclear plants, etc. Basically, a big one of these or several smaller events could trigger financial meltdown In America that'll mean the power goes out and the food trucks stop coming. Within days there'll be full scale riots in every major metro area and anyone who has anything will relocate to a more secure location and start guarding what they have. Within weeks fuel and food sources will be exhausted and "basically, the worst parts of the Bible" will begin to happen.

5. Actual Armageddon.

Hey, it could happen! We keep hearing about it. Who knows? I'm under no impression that my sinnin' butt will be raptured up into outer space. I'm here to be on Jesus' fire team. It's going to be one helluva war!

All good info. So far I've been mostly concentrated on financial protection. Now I'm trying to get everything else covered, so this helps a ton! Thank you again

The one thing I really love about this forum is the majority of folks don't think this post is weird. I'll admit, it's a little out there and tinfoil hatty, but like I said, I hope I'm wrong and this is all fun and games.

If you've looked at it financially, you know it's going to happen one of these days. If we're lucky, it'll be Argentina. If we're not... it'll be... well, it'll be interesting!

[Ban Hammer 13,293]

The EuroZone was a stupid, stupid idea.

i've been saying that for 10 years. finally the chickens are coming home to roost.

[Ban Hammer 13,293]

i figure there's several scenarios, similar to slim's above.

either it's gonna be regional or worldwide.

regional - localized disaster - probably be short term.

worldwide - outbreak of disease, war, financial collapse, loss/major shortage of oil. it would be ugly.

[slim 1,523]

i figure there's several scenarios, similar to slim's above.

either it's gonna be regional or worldwide.

regional - localized disaster - probably be short term.

worldwide - outbreak of disease, war, financial collapse, loss/major shortage of oil. it would be ugly.

If it's regional we'll have a fighting chance. So many in our society are scared to break the law. We've all seen the video of the dude sitting at the red light getting beaten by rioters but too scared to run the light and drive off.

As long as there's an end in sight, society will right itself fairly quickly. If the federal government can sustain our union, we'll pull out of it and be alright. But, the flip side of that is the longer they delay the inevitable, the worse it'll be once the collapse actually happens. Think King Dome with no national guard swooping in for the rescue.

[Ban Hammer 13,293]

If it's regional we'll have a fighting chance. So many in our society are scared to break the law. We've all seen the video of the dude sitting at the red light getting beaten by rioters but too scared to run the light and drive off.

As long as there's an end in sight, society will right itself fairly quickly. If the federal government can sustain our union, we'll pull out of it and be alright. But, the flip side of that is the longer they delay the inevitable, the worse it'll be once the collapse actually happens. Think King Dome with no national guard swooping in for the rescue.

guns are like condoms - better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

One look at the riots in England says it all right there. Better to be able to defend your self and your property then to end up a victim.

[Ban Hammer 13,293]

One look at the riots in England says it all right there. Better to be able to defend your self and your property then to end up a victim.

imagine how bad it would have been over there if they'd run out of tea!

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

imagine how bad it would have been over there if they'd run out of tea!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=weijnvNCxqY

Edited October 25, 2011 by Why_Me

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

That was a natural disaster, though.

And? There is a difference?

The fact is that any disturbance of our normal condition can cause very un-civil behavior. If we had a financial collapse, such as Russia experienced and Ukraine experienced and everyone lost access to their accounts with their debit cards, what do you think would happen? We hardly have anyone that has cash anymore, if cash would even have any value. It did not in Russia, Germany, Ukraine. At least they had a pretty abundant supply of foreign currency. Heck when I was working there we were still paying in cash in US dollars or Euros. We have no such supply of cash here. We have very few adults that know how to function without swiping their debit or cards on something, heck, things get ugly when there is a long weekend and the ATM runs out of cash!

As I have said, my stuff is more an unintended consequence of being frugal and doing this for a long time, but it is not bad to have. I do not think people that take such preparations more seriously are crazy. I hope I have something to offer in trade if it comes to that.