help needed

[SMR 368]

For what it's worth, people catch ####### for this sort of situation in countries besides Russia. The US likely wouldn't restrict international travel but you could easily lose your job. My father recently renewed his security clearance and underwent increased scrutiny because of my marriage to a Russian. He could have failed the clearance and would have been out of a job. It didn't happen in this situation but it can. I know a man who lost a clearance (and the job) in the UK over marriage to a Russian.

Like Eekee says, increased scrutiny from international family ties is pretty logical. And there is a huge difference between allowing someone to tour Europe without any real ties to the toured country and allowing someone to visit family in a foreign country. It's reasonable that the response would be different.

I'm not saying that they should be restricting travel, but it follows that the situation would encourage increased scrutiny.

[eekee 182]

You do know the Russian nationalist have ties with the neo NAZI movement in Russia ? And you do know that that Tsar Putin's NASHI Hitler Youth Movement was started by Tsar Putin himself to deter any type of Orange like revolution in Russia? And you do know that these same Russian nationalist were not only responsible for the deadly riots in Estonia during the relocation of the Bronze Occupier statue, but also for physical attacks against the ambassador's of Sweden and Estonia on Russian soil and that not one was convicted in the Russian court even though the crimes were filmed?

The brutal murders of attorneys and human rights workers have been traced back to these Russian nationalist. The same nationalist that Tsar Putin supports in his brainwashing camps across Russia. Read up on a fellow named "Dmitry Rogozin" or even "Vladimir Zhirinovsky". The former is Tsar Putin's NATO rep. for Russia, and the latter is a frequently reelected member of the Russian Duma.

Let me know when the Tea Party comes anywhere close to these nationalist thugs who are Kremlin supported with Tsar Putin's endless supply of state oil and gas money.

btw about those illegal Mexicans... They are a lot safer than any dark skinned minority walking the streets of Moscow where minorities from such places as the Caucus regions and the "stan countries" get beat up on an almost constant basis. I'm not sure if your on house arrest or what, but seriously ekee for someone living in Russia you don't seem to be too keen on the ins and outs of that country.

If you want people who LOVE fascism, go to Estonia or Western Ukraine, where people who helped the Nazis during WWII are considered heroes because of strong anti-Soviet sentiment. And yes, considering that I have personal acquaintances who are nationalists, I am well aware of ties to neo-Nazi movements, etc. There was, in fact, this dude who had a really serious crush on me and was all, "I WANT TO BE YOUR SERIOUS BOYFRIEND" and it was like, "You do understand that dating an American girl would totally put a damper on your nationalist street cred, right?" He lost interest when I informed him that I was a pacifist.

Honestly, coming from someone who lives here and doesn't just obsessively search google news for anti-Putin articles, as far as violence against people from the Caucausus, it goes both ways. They both attack each other. Russian police are actually now loathe to pursue cases when it's Caucausian on Neo-Nazi/football fanat/Nationalist violence.

Zhirinovsky is a clown. If you are going to take Zhirinovsky seriously--and he is not even a crony of Putin to begin with--you might as well stop attempting to debate anything about Russian politics/society.

Look up the documentary "The Billionaires' Tea Party" on youtube. It details how the whole Tea Party movement is a propaganda war disguised as a grassroots campaign to ensure that America continues to march toward plutocracy, if it is not completely there already, which I happen to think it is.

I think you read/believe what you want to, but the reality is never quite as black-and-white as you present it. While nationalism, etc. can benefit Putin since it distracts from the flaws of the government, it's not something he himself set in motion, IMO. It existed in Russia before Putin, and has a lot to do with a weakened position in the world and economic uncertainity. Nationalism is a way to return perceived glory to Russia that was lost when the bipolar world came to an end. Nashi isn't really a "thing," if that makes sense. If you speak with people with Nationalist views, they don't really care about/support Putin.

[eekee 182]

I'm not saying that they should be restricting travel, but it follows that the situation would encourage increased scrutiny.

She knew it was a job that could result in restricted travel when she took it. Thus, I have no sympathy.

[san diego 407]

She knew it was a job that could result in restricted travel when she took it. Thus, I have no sympathy.

I was not asking for you or any other sympathy or opinion. In fact I really don't care about your opinion. I asked for advice how to overcome this. So, go troll elsewhere.

[eekee 182]

I was not asking for you or any other sympathy or opinion. In fact I really don't care about your opinion. I asked for advice how to overcome this. So, go troll elsewhere.

Who's trolling? Russia restricts travel for security reasons for certain jobs, there is nothing you can do and no help anyone can offer. Overcome it by waiting five years and visiting her there instead.

Edited October 18, 2011 by eekee

[san diego 407]

Who's trolling? Russia restricts travel for security reasons for certain jobs, there is nothing you can do and no help anyone can offer.

If you have no answer or advice do not plug the space. I was not asking for opinions.

[Ban Hammer 13,337]

it might be best if some of the posters in here considered using the ignore feature.

[eekee 182]

If you have no answer or advice do not plug the space. I was not asking for opinions.

I'm giving you your answer. Sorry if it's not what you want to hear, but so it goes.

1) she signed a contract which included a certain clause

2) said clause was put into force

3) end of the road

MAYBE, MAYBE if you had connections and were able to grease the right palms, but I think that would just cause way more trouble.

Also, welcome to the RUB forum, land of meandering topics.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

If you want people who LOVE fascism, go to Estonia or Western Ukraine, where people who helped the Nazis during WWII are considered heroes because of strong anti-Soviet sentiment. And yes, considering that I have personal acquaintances who are nationalists, I am well aware of ties to neo-Nazi movements, etc. There was, in fact, this dude who had a really serious crush on me and was all, "I WANT TO BE YOUR SERIOUS BOYFRIEND" and it was like, "You do understand that dating an American girl would totally put a damper on your nationalist street cred, right?" He lost interest when I informed him that I was a pacifist.

Honestly, coming from someone who lives here and doesn't just obsessively search google news for anti-Putin articles, as far as violence against people from the Caucausus, it goes both ways. They both attack each other. Russian police are actually now loathe to pursue cases when it's Caucausian on Neo-Nazi/football fanat/Nationalist violence.

Zhirinovsky is a clown. If you are going to take Zhirinovsky seriously--and he is not even a crony of Putin to begin with--you might as well stop attempting to debate anything about Russian politics/society.

Look up the documentary "The Billionaires' Tea Party" on youtube. It details how the whole Tea Party movement is a propaganda war disguised as a grassroots campaign to ensure that America continues to march toward plutocracy, if it is not completely there already, which I happen to think it is.

I think you read/believe what you want to, but the reality is never quite as black-and-white as you present it. While nationalism, etc. can benefit Putin since it distracts from the flaws of the government, it's not something he himself set in motion, IMO. It existed in Russia before Putin, and has a lot to do with a weakened position in the world and economic uncertainity. Nationalism is a way to return perceived glory to Russia that was lost when the bipolar world came to an end. Nashi isn't really a "thing," if that makes sense. If you speak with people with Nationalist views, they don't really care about/support Putin.

Seriously ekee you are too easy to read. And btw I don't get most of my information from the net, I get it from the source...as in people living in Russia and Eastern Europe.

Zhirinovsky <--- repeatedly reelected to his post in the Duma. So say what you want, but Russians love him.

And yes NASHI is a "thing". It's Dersheva 101 and it's existed in Russia since the time of Vladimir, just in another name and form.

As far as Estonians and Western Ukrainians go...well it's obvious you have been taking your history classes in Russia along with your Russian nationalist friends.

Estonia and Western Ukraine were invaded not once, but three times in the 20th century by Russia where Russians committed horrible atrocities against those peoples including the mass deportations of tens of thousands of them. Some of those people are still alive today and they don't forget. They were there and they witnessed it first hand. But don't forget it was Russia (USSR) who was supporting it's #1 ally at the time aka NAZI Germany. Funny how they don't teach that in the Russian history books eh ekee?

And as far as the Tea Party goes... please post here and let us know when the Tea Party resorts to beating foreign ambassadors and murdering journalist and human rights workers when they aren't too busy beating people to death on the streets and subways for the fact those people have dark skin and/or slanted eyes. Russia could write a book on racism seeing how it's a world leader in that department. But of course it's always easy to blame someone else for their short comings...it's how it's always been and nothings changed hence the reason Russia's neighbors couldn't join NATO soon enough. Just ask Poland and the Baltics.

[eekee 182]

Why_me, my family isn't Jewish and came to the US after the war from Belarus via DP camps. You do the math. I didn't need to go to "history class." It's not something I'm proud of, obviously, but it is what it is. And in Western Ukraine and the Baltics, the same thing was going on. And if you can't figure out what I'm implying, you need to do more research yourself on World War Two.

Who votes at all in Russia, anyway?

Would the Tea Party exist if Obama weren't half-black? I doubt it. All that birther bs, the Tea Party... it's racism, too. It's not like we don't have it in our history and in our present and to pretend otherwise is just ignorant. Our entire prison/justice system? Yeah.

Yes, Russia has it's problems... but it's a country that has been been a "democracy" for 20 years and has a long history of autocracy. Things do not happen overnight.

By Nashi not being a "thing" I mean that it's not something that is very popular or has real legs as a movement. It's also not called "Nashi" anymore, I think.

But seriously who are your sources because... yeah.

Question, off-topic: Why do you write NAZI in all capitals? It's not an acronym. Same with sometimes I see people write "visa" like VISA. It really bothers me.

Edited October 19, 2011 by eekee

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Why_me, my family isn't Jewish and came to the US after the war from Belarus via DP camps. You do the math. I didn't need to go to "history class." It's not something I'm proud of, obviously, but it is what it is.

If your trying to say that your parents ended up in a Displaced Persons camp for the fact they sided with the Germans...a lot of people in Belarus sided with the Germans. Belarusians looked at the Germans as saviors until the SS started the mass killings. Why did they look at the Germans as saviors? For the fact Belarus was strewn with the bones of Poles and so called "Belarusian political threats" from Brest to Orsha. Karupaty right outside of Minsk has the bones of literally tens of thousands of Belarusians who caught a midnight bullet in the back of the head from the GRU/NKVD. The only allies the Soviets had in Belarus were communist in positions of power and Jews.

If your implying that your family was in an SS Labor camp...my wife's family was also...and they aren't Jewish. Her grandmother saw her mother, brother and two sisters gunned down by SS guards two days before the Red Army liberated their camp.

And in Western Ukraine and the Baltics, the same thing was going on. And if you can't figure out what I'm implying, you need to do more research yourself on World War Two.

What happened in the Baltics is inexcusable ...it happened to the peoples of the Baltics and it happened to the Jews. The peoples of the Baltics had close to 1/8 of their population deported to Siberia. This was "BEFORE" 1941. Explain please why those people had their country invaded by Russians and watched as their friends and family were deported in wooden cattle cars in the middle of winter to Siberia. A very large portion of those people didn't survive the trip and the ones that did had a life span of less than two years in Russian Gulags aka Labor Camps.

The same can be said for Western Ukrainians who saw their priest tied to tree's and skinned alive by NKVD. Those NKVD were usually Jewish and it didn't take much for Hitler to set them off when he "liberated" them as they saw it at first. The first ones they went after were the Jews that they saw dressed up in Red Army uniforms when they were doing the "deporting, raping, and mass murdering" of thousands of Poles and Western Ukrainians. Brutal doesn't even begin to explain what those people went through. The Germans dug up well over 4,000 recent NKVD victims in 1941 right outside of Lvov after the Red Army retreated.

Hitler was responsible for 12+ million deaths, Stalin well over 20 million deaths. Both were equally brutal and equally evil. One was not better than the other. Whether you starve to death in a Siberian Gulag or you catch a German bullet in the back of your head...dead is dead.

Who votes at all in Russia, anyway?

You should have rephrased that question as to; "Why would Russians care about the outcome of an election?"

I'm not sure if you were in Russia during any of Tsar Putin's pseudo elections or in 2007 when Medvedev ran for president, but a lot of people voted whether they wanted to or not. You attend a Russian university yes? Ask some of your fellow students if they were coerced into voting by teachers at your university.

It was the same with civil service workers in Russia. A lot of them were not only told to vote, but who to vote for ..or else... If this ####### were to happen in the US it would be front page news. Name one time a Russian didn't know the outcome of an election well before the votes were being taken?

Would the Tea Party exist if Obama weren't half-black? I doubt it. All that birther bs, the Tea Party... it's racism, too. It's not like we don't have it in our history and in our present and to pretend otherwise is just ignorant. Our entire prison/justice system? Yeah.

Youv'e learned well ekee. That's one of the oldest Russian tricks in the book. Don't acknowledge the original question, but point the finger somewhere else. Russians are famous for saying something like.."We may have done this, but look what you did." Except this time there's no comparison and you left out the "we may have done..."

I believe the Tea Party does have elements of racism, and the Birthers even more so. But name a time the Tea Party and/or Birthers were responsible for beating not one, but two EU ambassadors? When was the Tea Party involved with starting riots in another country for relocating a statue or better yet when was the Tea Party ever involved in murdering a journalist in cold blood? If that were to ever happen here it would make front page news instead of being buried by the Kremlin controlled media.

As far as racism goes...the US has evolved. We have a black president if you haven't noticed and almost had a woman president. Something Russia will most never see in it's life time. Russian and Russians are leaders of the pack when it comes to racism. In fact they are so racist, that most of the Duma and Tsar Putin's siloviki henchman refused to shake hands with the president of the United States when he visited Moscow.

There are more Neo NAZI's in Russia than anywhere else in the world. How ironic. These are the same imbeciles who celebrate "Victory Day", yet get swastika's tattooed on themselves. Go figure eh. Do you know what a "Slavophille" is ekee"? If not study up more on Russians and Serbs. They are the epitome of a "Slavophille". Russian nationalism is at an all time high and it's fueled by no other than Tsar Putin himself. It's his take on Hitler and the brainwashing effect his government controlled joke of a media has on the brainwashed masses.

Yes, Russia has it's problems... but it's a country that has been been a "democracy" for 20 years and has a long history of autocracy. Things do not happen overnight.

I call bs right there. That's another typical Russian cop out. Several Eastern European countries that were illegally occupied by the Russians for close to five decades had no problem making the adjustment to democracy. Russians on the other hand are their own worst enemy. Russia had the chance to become a true democracy and not the twisted perverted system they have now. Russians asked for it, and they got it. It has nothing to do with being out of the "democratic loop" and all to do with the Russian mindset. Russians love a strong dictator. It gives them a hard on every time they hear about Tsar Putin humping a bear with this shirt off, or he talks sh*t about the US. They reminisce about the "good ol days" when Russia illegally occupied half of Europe and was the terror of the modern world to be feared by all hence the reason Stalin is adored right along with Lenin and Ivan the Terrible. Tsar Putin even went as far as to bring back the old Soviet National Anthem. Now if that isn't messed up I don't know what is. But Russians love their pint sized dictator for this. It shows he's a strong leader and will tell them how and when to wipe their ####### all the while protecting them from their enemies. Tsar Putin and his friends rape Russia for billions in gas and oil money just to name a few of his rackets while a lot of Russians still don't have indoor plumbing. Drive an hour or two outside of St. Petes and/or Moscow and take a good look at how those people live.

By Nashi not being a "thing" I mean that it's not something that is very popular or has real legs as a movement. It's also not called "Nashi" anymore, I think.

It may not be as popular now as it was in the past, but only because Tsar Putin realized he created a monster that had to be cut down to size quick like or he was going to have problems if he was ever on their sh*t list. The NASHI revere Tsar Putin as a god, but even Hitler has his "night of the long knives" and did away with the "Brown Shirts".

It's all about Dzeshava ekee. It's as old as the ROC and you can trace it back to the time before the Muscovy Khanate massacred the Rus in Novgorod. It's went by many names in the past, but its the same no matter what time and place.

But seriously who are your sources because... yeah.

A couple of university professors in St. Petersburg, an ex car dealer in Vladivostok, a former Estonian MP, a writer/photographer who freelances now and again for Charter 97, a former writer/poet in Vinnytsia, Ukraine who spent time in a Soviet prison, etc, etc.. Russia is always being watched and for good reason. Nobody buys into the news the Kremlin owned and controlled media spews out. Only a brainwashed idiot would do that. Best to get the news first hand by people that don't have their head up Tsar Putin's #######.

Question, off-topic: Why do you write NAZI in all capitals? It's not an acronym. Same with sometimes I see people write "visa" like VISA. It really bothers me.

I have idea why I do that.

[shikarnov 7]

I don't know if this is helpful or not, but five years ago, I was unable to register my visa (which is a long long story), and ended up getting squeezed at the airport. As I had no cash (who actually carries cash these days?!), I was unable to bribe the immigration officer (who wouldn't take me to the ATM machine) and ended up earning a 3-year entry ban. Given that I was still in the early stages of a relationship with my now-wife, this was a pretty devastating outcome.

I ended up contacting Xenia Menshova, an immigration attorney operating out of Moscow. She was extremely helpful and - and not at all unreasonably priced. Long story short, I was on a plane back to see my lady a month later. No problems at all.

I'm not sure if forum rules allow me to post her contact info, but feel free to PM me if you're interested.

Good luck,

Z

[ONA 133]

This thread turned out funny.

OK. 1st point. Russian school system cannot be "brainwashing" - there is no textbook that says that Stalin or Eltsin or Putin is any good - at least as long as I remember and I finished school in 2006. As for my university history class... I think if some of the students were not, as eekee pointed earlier "cynical", they definitely turned that way after taking this class.

Plus in school we had to study books by authors like Solzhentsyn. While they were sad and, I guess, truthful, they were boring as hell.

2nd point. "Nashi". While there are some crazy dumb supporters of this group, and, I guess, crazy dumb future politicians, for a lot of youth in Russia it's just a ticket to free travel. I mean, you can always pretend like you want to join them and interested to learn what they're doing and travel to Moscow or Saint Petersburg for free when they're supposed to have some sort of event there, but than change your mind about joining them A lot of people I know did that.

3rd point. My husband failed his security check because of me BEFORE we got married, but when the petition was filed. No, he didn't lose his job, but he lost a chance to make more money.

4th point. Nazis weren't and aren't considered heroes in Germany. How stupid are you supposed to be to believe that they were going to give independence to Ukraine or to Estonia? How stupid are you supposed to be to become one of those neo-nazis in Russia? As my history teacher (already mentioned above) used to say, "if you love Hitler so much, go ahead and kill yourself, cause that's what he wanted".

[SMR 368]

If you have no answer or advice do not plug the space. I was not asking for opinions.

But you had no problem with all of the opinions that openly bashed Russia and agreed with you. You only objected when someone pointed out that there might be some rationale to the actions that were taken. In any case, you've received reasonable counsel and everything you could really expect from a site populated by people who don't have extended experience with Russian security clearances. Just because you started the thread doesn't mean that you own it.

If your trying to say that your parents ended up in a Displaced Persons camp for the fact they sided with the Germans...a lot of people in Belarus sided with the Germans. Belarusians looked at the Germans as saviors until the SS started the mass killings. Why did they look at the Germans as saviors? For the fact Belarus was strewn with the bones of Poles and so called "Belarusian political threats" from Brest to Orsha. Karupaty right outside of Minsk has the bones of literally tens of thousands of Belarusians who caught a midnight bullet in the back of the head from the GRU/NKVD. The only allies the Soviets had in Belarus were communist in positions of power and Jews.

If your implying that your family was in an SS Labor camp...my wife's family was also...and they aren't Jewish. Her grandmother saw her mother, brother and two sisters gunned down by SS guards two days before the Red Army liberated their camp.

What happened in the Baltics is inexcusable ...it happened to the peoples of the Baltics and it happened to the Jews. The peoples of the Baltics had close to 1/8 of their population deported to Siberia. This was "BEFORE" 1941. Explain please why those people had their country invaded by Russians and watched as their friends and family were deported in wooden cattle cars in the middle of winter to Siberia. A very large portion of those people didn't survive the trip and the ones that did had a life span of less than two years in Russian Gulags aka Labor Camps.

The same can be said for Western Ukrainians who saw their priest tied to tree's and skinned alive by NKVD. Those NKVD were usually Jewish and it didn't take much for Hitler to set them off when he "liberated" them as they saw it at first. The first ones they went after were the Jews that they saw dressed up in Red Army uniforms when they were doing the "deporting, raping, and mass murdering" of thousands of Poles and Western Ukrainians. Brutal doesn't even begin to explain what those people went through. The Germans dug up well over 4,000 recent NKVD victims in 1941 right outside of Lvov after the Red Army retreated.

Hitler was responsible for 12+ million deaths, Stalin well over 20 million deaths. Both were equally brutal and equally evil. One was not better than the other. Whether you starve to death in a Siberian Gulag or you catch a German bullet in the back of your head...dead is dead.

You should have rephrased that question as to; "Why would Russians care about the outcome of an election?"

I'm not sure if you were in Russia during any of Tsar Putin's pseudo elections or in 2007 when Medvedev ran for president, but a lot of people voted whether they wanted to or not. You attend a Russian university yes? Ask some of your fellow students if they were coerced into voting by teachers at your university.

It was the same with civil service workers in Russia. A lot of them were not only told to vote, but who to vote for ..or else... If this ####### were to happen in the US it would be front page news. Name one time a Russian didn't know the outcome of an election well before the votes were being taken?

Youv'e learned well ekee. That's one of the oldest Russian tricks in the book. Don't acknowledge the original question, but point the finger somewhere else. Russians are famous for saying something like.."We may have done this, but look what you did." Except this time there's no comparison and you left out the "we may have done..."

I believe the Tea Party does have elements of racism, and the Birthers even more so. But name a time the Tea Party and/or Birthers were responsible for beating not one, but two EU ambassadors? When was the Tea Party involved with starting riots in another country for relocating a statue or better yet when was the Tea Party ever involved in murdering a journalist in cold blood? If that were to ever happen here it would make front page news instead of being buried by the Kremlin controlled media.

As far as racism goes...the US has evolved. We have a black president if you haven't noticed and almost had a woman president. Something Russia will most never see in it's life time. Russian and Russians are leaders of the pack when it comes to racism. In fact they are so racist, that most of the Duma and Tsar Putin's siloviki henchman refused to shake hands with the president of the United States when he visited Moscow.

There are more Neo NAZI's in Russia than anywhere else in the world. How ironic. These are the same imbeciles who celebrate "Victory Day", yet get swastika's tattooed on themselves. Go figure eh. Do you know what a "Slavophille" is ekee"? If not study up more on Russians and Serbs. They are the epitome of a "Slavophille". Russian nationalism is at an all time high and it's fueled by no other than Tsar Putin himself. It's his take on Hitler and the brainwashing effect his government controlled joke of a media has on the brainwashed masses.

I call bs right there. That's another typical Russian cop out. Several Eastern European countries that were illegally occupied by the Russians for close to five decades had no problem making the adjustment to democracy. Russians on the other hand are their own worst enemy. Russia had the chance to become a true democracy and not the twisted perverted system they have now. Russians asked for it, and they got it. It has nothing to do with being out of the "democratic loop" and all to do with the Russian mindset. Russians love a strong dictator. It gives them a hard on every time they hear about Tsar Putin humping a bear with this shirt off, or he talks sh*t about the US. They reminisce about the "good ol days" when Russia illegally occupied half of Europe and was the terror of the modern world to be feared by all hence the reason Stalin is adored right along with Lenin and Ivan the Terrible. Tsar Putin even went as far as to bring back the old Soviet National Anthem. Now if that isn't messed up I don't know what is. But Russians love their pint sized dictator for this. It shows he's a strong leader and will tell them how and when to wipe their ####### all the while protecting them from their enemies. Tsar Putin and his friends rape Russia for billions in gas and oil money just to name a few of his rackets while a lot of Russians still don't have indoor plumbing. Drive an hour or two outside of St. Petes and/or Moscow and take a good look at how those people live.

It may not be as popular now as it was in the past, but only because Tsar Putin realized he created a monster that had to be cut down to size quick like or he was going to have problems if he was ever on their sh*t list. The NASHI revere Tsar Putin as a god, but even Hitler has his "night of the long knives" and did away with the "Brown Shirts".

It's all about Dzeshava ekee. It's as old as the ROC and you can trace it back to the time before the Muscovy Khanate massacred the Rus in Novgorod. It's went by many names in the past, but its the same no matter what time and place.

A couple of university professors in St. Petersburg, an ex car dealer in Vladivostok, a former Estonian MP, a writer/photographer who freelances now and again for Charter 97, a former writer/poet in Vinnytsia, Ukraine who spent time in a Soviet prison, etc, etc.. Russia is always being watched and for good reason. Nobody buys into the news the Kremlin owned and controlled media spews out. Only a brainwashed idiot would do that. Best to get the news first hand by people that don't have their head up Tsar Putin's #######.

I have idea why I do that.

On the last part, did you mean "no idea?"

In any case, you keep drawing this back to history and not focusing on the here and now. There are lots of problems in history in all countries. I don't agree with Eekee's assessment of the tea party (There have been significant attempts to tie it to racism but it's about taxes and deficits and I've seen no substantiated evidence to tie the tea party to race. Birthers, probably. The tea party is a different animal), but you'll find plenty of abusive racism in the US if we decide we're talking about which country has a cleaner history and not talk about the here and now.

Nobody who really understands the issues is going to tell you there aren't problems with Russia's political system. I just find it interesting that with all the bad things said about the US government, most US Citizens are still stuck in the knee-jerk reaction that the US government is better than every other government in every respect. US Citizens are fine talking about the problems in the US in critical detail as long as we are comparing it to some hypothetical ideal. But as soon we start comparing two countries, any criticism of the pristine US system is tantamount to heresy.

As far as your sources, you're right that you're not going to get everything from the news and that not everything you get on the news is true. But a handful of personal opinions expressed to you might not be much better. Obviously those people have their sources who have their sources etc. Each person also has filters to hear what he or she wants to believe.

[LvivLovers 39]

Interesting thread.

Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents on the Tea Party since I identify myself with them...NONE of the many Tea Party people I have known are racist. They are simply people who are tired of big government and don't like the direction the country is headed. I, in fact, just donated to Herman Cain a couple days ago and he's quite a bit "blacker" than Obama. My father is doing the same. Race has nothing to do with it. In any large group there are going to be a few bad apples...I've never personally seen one at a Tea Party gathering, but I'm sure they exist somewhere since the liberal media always manages to find one or two to highlight.

As far as birthers...I'll admit, that I too wanted to see Obama's birth certificate. It wasn't because he is half-black though...it's because I don't trust him (or any other politician) and his behavior was more than a little suspicious. That and the fact that he's a worse president than even Jimmy Carter and it was obvious to me from the get-go he was going to make a sh*tty situation even worse. To be honest, I was surprised to find out that EVERY President was not more thoroughly vetted with proof that they meet all requirements to be President available to all citizens. So yeah...I didn't see what the problem was in getting carded so we didn't just have to take his word for it.

In other thread-hijacking news, I just bought some guns and have been having a blast going to the shooting range with my wife...Tuesday ladies shoot free!!! Just out of curiosity, do all of you RUB folk realize that our standard of living is about to go into the crapper along with a collapse in the the U.S. dollar or is that just me? If not, consider this your wake-up call.