help needed

[san diego 407]

Welcome to the RUB and congrats on launching a successful post! They are bound to either end in guns or pie...but guns are much more interesting imo.

LOL. I think both pretty boring

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

When it turned into an RUB women discussion

mmmmmmmmmmmm RUB women.

Back to guns

Sorry Sandiego, no help here for your topic, it happens. No need to waste a good guns thread.

speaking of BOTH, I got home from work and Alla is gone. Gone shooting! Dammit! She has completely truned into a shooting monster! She is going through 500 rounds per week, went through 250 just now, she told me. She is on the way home now. I'm hungry....FEED ME!

Edited October 28, 2011 by Gary and Alla

[slim 1,525]

I spent the weekend Appleseeding. Awesome, awesome, awesome to be out on the range in perfect shooting weather with a great group of Americans participating in the heritage of marksmanship.

After hours we shot a few silhouettes over on the 200 yard range. One of the guys pulled out a supressed AR-10 with subsonic ammo. All we heard was click, thud. Click, thud. Click, thud.

I know what I want for Christmas.

[LvivLovers 39]

LOL. I think both pretty boring

I'll admit, I'm not much for discussing pie as I have very narrow tastes: I just love chocolate. On guns, I wasn't hugely interested until recently when I started believing that we are headed for a financial disaster of Biblical proportions that can't be averted and started thinking about the possible ramifications of that. So now, it's like when I got my first real camera...I'm trying to soak up whatever I can even though most of what these guys discuss is still over my head!

[LvivLovers 39]

mmmmmmmmmmmm RUB women.

Back to guns

Sorry Sandiego, no help here for your topic, it happens. No need to waste a good guns thread.

speaking of BOTH, I got home from work and Alla is gone. Gone shooting! Dammit! She has completely truned into a shooting monster! She is going through 500 rounds per week, went through 250 just now, she told me. She is on the way home now. I'm hungry....FEED ME!

Sounds like you've created a monster! But that's a good thing. I have to admit it's the same here. My wife is the primary force in us getting armed and going shooting. So far just fired the Glocks at relatively close range, so I'm still anxious to try longer distance targets...what's typical for that kind of shooting? You have after-market scopes mounted to get additional accuracy or what?

[LvivLovers 39]

I spent the weekend Appleseeding. Awesome, awesome, awesome to be out on the range in perfect shooting weather with a great group of Americans participating in the heritage of marksmanship.

After hours we shot a few silhouettes over on the 200 yard range. One of the guys pulled out a supressed AR-10 with subsonic ammo. All we heard was click, thud. Click, thud. Click, thud.

I know what I want for Christmas.

Sounds like fun! I was looking at some crazy gun setups on YouTube this weekend while researching all the various flavors of the AR-15...some people have those 150-round mags, some bayonets, flashlights, lasers, etc. Sooooo many options it boggles my mind. Any thoughts on best make of AR-15? Seems like everyone has got an opinion on the subject. I'm determined to get one in the next week or two...it may come down to whatever is easily available though rather that what is truly best, but maybe I'll get lucky. Any specific things I should look for?

As I was stating earlier, my wife is the primary driving force in arming up...she's convinced the SWHTF one way or another. That's nice because I don't have to deal with any resistance but she's even more gung-ho than I would be...she's wanting me to have a minimum of 10,000 rounds stashed. Am I right in thinking that's a bit much?!

[slim 1,525]

So far just fired the Glocks at relatively close range, so I'm still anxious to try longer distance targets...what's typical for that kind of shooting? You have after-market scopes mounted to get additional accuracy or what?

Pistols are basically point blank to 25 meters. You can hit 50 and even 100 with some practice (no scope needed) but anything more than that and you should be using a rifle. Shotguns will be point blank to 100 (more with slugs/rifled barrels) but pretty much anything over that and you should be using a rifle.

For rifles, there's no special equipment needed out to about 500 yards for man-sized targets. Once you get past that distance you'll probably need some glass up top to even see your target. You can dress up your rifle with a whole bunch of ####### and really tune it in to make all your bullets go into the same hole. I have one rifle with a scope and bipod and instead of just hitting the target, I can hit wherever I want on that target.

You guys should get to an Appleseed event. You'll learn a whole bunch and have a lot of fun.

[LvivLovers 39]

Pistols are basically point blank to 25 meters. You can hit 50 and even 100 with some practice (no scope needed) but anything more than that and you should be using a rifle. Shotguns will be point blank to 100 (more with slugs/rifled barrels) but pretty much anything over that and you should be using a rifle.

For rifles, there's no special equipment needed out to about 500 yards for man-sized targets. Once you get past that distance you'll probably need some glass up top to even see your target. You can dress up your rifle with a whole bunch of ####### and really tune it in to make all your bullets go into the same hole. I have one rifle with a scope and bipod and instead of just hitting the target, I can hit wherever I want on that target.

You guys should get to an Appleseed event. You'll learn a whole bunch and have a lot of fun.

Cool. Thanks! Yeah I'm going to start looking...sounds like it would be a big help as well as a lot of fun.

[baron555 934]

Any thoughts on best make of AR-15? Seems like everyone has got an opinion on the subject.

Rock River Arms (RRA.....accurate out of the box)

...she's wanting me to have a minimum of 10,000 rounds stashed. Am I right in thinking that's a bit much?!

Nope, I count my stash in multiples of 10K.....doesn't everyone? (A few calibers can be counted even higher!)

[slim 1,525]

some people have those 150-round mags, some bayonets, flashlights, lasers, etc.

I joke with folks, "my new one has a can opener and MP3 player on it." In truth, half the ####### on those rifles is unnecessary and can even be illegal. Make sure you're allowed to have a 150-round mag in your state. For example, here in Ohio we're allowed to own them... we just can't use them. (One of those "common sense" laws, I guess.) Some places don't allow bayonet lugs, etc. Check your local laws but for SHTF purposes, who cares.

Another thing you'll want to check on is legal transportation. Driving to/from the range can get you in trouble if you're doing something illegal. Make sure you know how to legally transport your rifle/ammo in your state. Another example from Ohio - we can't have loaded magazines in the car with the rifle. More common sense.

Sooooo many options it boggles my mind.

I've heard it described as "Barbie for boys."

Any thoughts on best make of AR-15? Seems like everyone has got an opinion on the subject. I'm determined to get one in the next week or two...it may come down to whatever is easily available though rather that what is truly best, but maybe I'll get lucky.

I've trusted my life to Colt and FN. My personal SHTF rifle is a Colt.

However, as you've already found out, there are a million options out there and everyone has an opinion. For the most part, if you stick with a reputable company, you'll be fine. You can go big (LMT, Daniel Defense, Bravo, Yankee Hill, etc.) and spend $1500 on a rifle or you can go really, really light with a kit build assembled like Frankenstein from parts you order off the internet. A rifle like that will run you around $600.

The company Phil suggested, Rock River, is about the perfect mix of quality and value. They make great rifles and they're not super expensive. You'll get to know the spectrum once you read more and more about them but the general concensus is DPMS, Olympic, Stag, etc., are at the bottom of the barrel but from what I've seen, their rifles are just as good as any others.

The thing about ARs is they're like women. Very picky. Finicky. Subject to mood swings. However, once you figure them out and then treat them how they like being treated, they'll do anything you ask them to.

Any specific things I should look for?

I personally believe a SHTF rifle should have iron sights. Whether those are pinned to the rifle, built into the handguard or just attached to the rails, I don't care. No matter how they're on there, it should have some. You can have an optic (or 2) also, but it should always, always, always have irons.

After that... the rest is up to you. You can literally change out every single piece of that rifle (see picture above) and make it exactly what you want.

The only other thing I'd say you need, and this is often overlooked by even the most "cool" of the tacticool shooters, is magazines. You can't have too many magazines. Most folks buy a $1000 rifle and then $50 worth of magazines and they're good. Magazines take a long time to load. You might lose a few. They may break.

Take whatever money you would spend on "#######" for your rifle (can openers and MP3 players) and spend it on mags. You don't need a 3lb foregrip light/laser combo. You don't need a bayonet. Take all that money and buy a few more magazines.

And a note on mags... I don't believe the hype on PMAGs. I buy USGI mags in as big a quantity and for the least amount I can. If they worked in Iraq, they'll work here. I can buy 3 USGI mags for the same price as 1 PMAG. I don't care how cool they look. All I care about is if they work. Green followers and you're good to go. Buy 'em cheap and stack 'em deep!

As I was stating earlier, my wife is the primary driving force in arming up...she's convinced the SWHTF one way or another. That's nice because I don't have to deal with any resistance but

Consider yourself lucky!

she's even more gung-ho than I would be...

Consider yourself lucky!

she's wanting me to have a minimum of 10,000 rounds stashed. Am I right in thinking that's a bit much?!

Consider yourself lucky again! Man, that must be nice!

10,000 rounds is far too much to carry. However, if you're set up at home, 10,000 is probably right around where you'll feel comfortable once you start figuring out what's what. You'll notice with those ARs you can sit around having fun shooting at the range and before you know it, you just dumped 500 rounds. It adds up really quick.

Now, imagine you're doing zombie eradication drills or worse, there's a vehicle-borne threat attacking your homestead. Aren't you going to want more than a few hundred rounds?

Bottom line is, you can't have too much ammo!

[baron555 934]

I have two AR-15s.

1. RRA National Match A4, set up for "Tactical" use with a IOR Valdada 1.1 x 26mm scope, G1 Front Grip pod with spring retractable bipod, and black Turner leather sling.

2. RRA National Match A4, set up for "Match " use with a Leupold VS-3 2.5-8 X 36mm scope, Harris retractable front bipod, and black Turner leather sling.

#1 was purchased slightly used and #2 was purchased brand new. Both were as advertised with MOA accuracy out of the box to 600 yards or more.

As you will find, the accuracy of the shooter is the limiting factor!!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Sounds like fun! I was looking at some crazy gun setups on YouTube this weekend while researching all the various flavors of the AR-15...some people have those 150-round mags, some bayonets, flashlights, lasers, etc. Sooooo many options it boggles my mind. Any thoughts on best make of AR-15? Seems like everyone has got an opinion on the subject. I'm determined to get one in the next week or two...it may come down to whatever is easily available though rather that what is truly best, but maybe I'll get lucky. Any specific things I should look for?

As I was stating earlier, my wife is the primary driving force in arming up...she's convinced the SWHTF one way or another. That's nice because I don't have to deal with any resistance but she's even more gung-ho than I would be...she's wanting me to have a minimum of 10,000 rounds stashed. Am I right in thinking that's a bit much?!

Pistols such as your Glocks represent a "hail Mary" pass at anything past 50 yards. I used to shoot in handgun silhouette competition which is done at 25, 50, 75 and 100 yards. I used a scope Thompson Center Contender single shot pistol in .22 hornet for the centerfire match and a scoped Ruger MKII with a bull barrel for the rimfire match. Both would easily hit and knock down the silhouettes at 100 yards From a bench rest they shot respectable 100 yard groups.

However this is basically a "stunt" where a miss gets an "aw sh*t" and nothing else. For any kind of defensive, survival situation at long range you need a rifle. Even handgun hunting is a sport and challenge. When you need to feed your family or defend your family you do not need challenges, you need something that is dependable at any range where an animal can be made into food or a person can be a threat.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

...she's wanting me to have a minimum of 10,000 rounds stashed. Am I right in thinking that's a bit much?!

It is too much for .40 S&W but definitely not too much. Get a few more guns and get plenty of ammo for all of them. I have many more than 10,000 rounds. I would probably get nervous if I only had that much, but it is not all of one caliber. .22s come in cartons of 500 so just 20 cartons makes 10,000 rounds. Alla is going through 500 per week and shooting 2 or three days a week. I shoot 200 shotgun shells every week. 500 for a monthly club match. Alla can usually shoot 25 per week, she prefers her rifle. I have enough compunents to assemble far more than 10,000 rounds. A very small carton of primers is 1000! I have, literally, garbage cans filled with shotgun shells of skeet loads, 5 guages! 12, 16, 20, 28 and .410 Not many 16s & .410s.

I am working on a skeet gun for her. She claims hers is "too heavy", a M1100 28 guage. We looked at a sweet old Browning "double auto" the other day, very light. 20ga. She liked it. It has a cult following among Browning collectors and is sweet skeet gun (which it was actually designed for) but they want $1000 for it! I will check out the online auctions before I buy one of those. She is not interested in the pump guns and mine are not light anyway.

She may go for a Ruger Red Label 20 ga or if I can find one in 28, that would be even better.

She says "I have to be able to pull the trigger two times and it shoots two times" so definitely the auto or O/U route.

No, 10,000 rounds is not too many, not at all.

Edited October 31, 2011 by Gary and Alla

[baron555 934]

I've trusted my life to Colt and FN. My personal SHTF rifle is a Colt.

Colts are nice; you can find good deals (My favorite auction site is Gunbroker) but yes read around (AR15.com is a good forum to read reviews and discussions).

The company Phil suggested, Rock River, is about the perfect mix of quality and value. They make great rifles and they're not super expensive. You'll get to know the spectrum once you read more and more about them but the general concensus is DPMS, Olympic, Stag, etc., are at the bottom of the barrel but from what I've seen, their rifles are just as good as any others.

Read up on the Rock River Arms (RRA) offerings. You'll see that for the most part, and economically-speaking, but also good accuracy out of the box, good customer support and easy to "accessorize", RRA is a legit contender. Yes, I'm biased but I went through all this a few years ago and have never been sorry.

I personally believe a SHTF rifle should have iron sights.

Agree. One should be proficient enough of a shooter to not need help! We sent thousands of GIs into WWII with iron sights on their M1s and they did just fine!

Take all that money and buy a few more magazines.

Yes

Buy 'em cheap and stack 'em deep!

Yep

Bottom line is, you can't have too much ammo!

For sure! Never have ENOUGH!!!

[slim 1,525]

I have three AR-15s.

1. Colt Match Target Rifle (MT-6601), set up for "precision" use with a cheap 3-9x40 Simmons scope, Harris bipod, padded cheek rest, and green USGI sling. The rifle is camouflaged as are the mags kept with it. I even have some burlap strips hanging off it and wrapped around it. This is my "sittin in a bush for three days" rifle.

2. RRA 16" HBAR upper, Surplus Ammo and Arms lower, set up for "tactical" use with a Buhnell mini red dot scope, UTG quad rail, Mako grip well, Mako recoil reducing stock, Magpul RSA, Magpul ASAP, Magpul BAD, Troy Claymore muzzle brake, and a black tactical 1/2 point sling. This one is still black but will probably be camo pretty soon. I plan on adding a 37mm "flare" launcher too. This is my "put as much ####### on it as I can" rifle and is just for fun, learning, etc. I bought this one to play around with. This is the one I'd put the MP3 player on if I had one.

3. Spike's Tactical 16" midlength upper, Surplus Ammo and Arms lower, set up for my wife. It has Daniel Defense A1.5 rear sight and Magpul MOE stock. A lighter, faster rifle. Just bought it last night from a buddy of mine (and got a sweet package deal with a bunch of ammo too!) Still black. No sling yet. I'm going to have her pick which accessories she'd like. This will be "her rifle."

#1 was purchased brand new. #2 the upper was purchased used and I put the lower and accessories together brand new. #3 is a factory built upper that my buddy shot very little and he assembled the lower himself. All three are as accurate as the operator.

I plan on buying at least one, if not two or three more before the end of the year. (I have three little brothers and I'd like to have one for each of them. Plus my wife and my stepdad too, so that's at least six we need. Might as well get ten. You can't have too many!)

Just a quick note about ARs that I forgot to mention yesterday.... Make sure your barrel is chrome lined. It'll be a lot heartier when you're not cleaning it regularly. It'll keep it's rifling better, it'll handle different bullet types, etc., etc., etc. It's not necessary, per se, but it'll hold up better in the long run and that's important for SHTF.

The other thing with ARs is the twist rate of the rifling. People debate all day which is better but in SHTF it doesn't really matter. 1x7 is going to get you way, way, way out there with really accurate fire. 1x9 will too. So will 1x8, 1x12 and any other twist rate you can find. The general rule is heavier bullets for the lower number of twist. But, in truth, it doesn't really matter. Whatever you have it'll shoot. For precision shots at 600 yards, you'll need to figure that stuff out. But for "get off my lawn" it doesn't matter.

I used a scope Thompson Center Contender single shot pistol in .22 hornet for the centerfire match and a scoped Ruger MKII with a bull barrel for the rimfire match.

For any kind of defensive, survival situation at long range you need a rifle.

Exactly. Those are "pistols" in name only. Both are pretty much rifles, especially when shot off a bench.

Even handgun hunting is a sport and challenge. When you need to feed your family or defend your family you do not need challenges, you need something that is dependable at any range where an animal can be made into food or a person can be a threat.

Yep. As you said earlier, it's nice to have a .22LR in a smaller rifle.

Ruger 10/22, Marlin 795 or 60, Remington 597, etc. would be great. Some people want the survival-specific .22s but I'd rather have a more common rifle so I could find mags or parts if I needed.

I am working on a skeet gun for her.

Having and knowing how to use a shotgun is something every American ought to do. Shooting birds will be important after SHTF and something like a duck or goose (or even a pigeon) will make a fine meal.

If you don't know how to use a shotgun to shoot birds, learn to do so. Like Gary's said, get you a good gun and then get out to the skeet range and learn to bust 'em. You may need it!