help needed

[LvivLovers 39]

One look at the riots in England says it all right there. Better to be able to defend your self and your property then to end up a victim.

That's just a taste of what things will be like. It will be a lot worse here. Greek riots are another glimpse as is Katrina.

[LvivLovers 39]

And? There is a difference?

The fact is that any disturbance of our normal condition can cause very un-civil behavior. If we had a financial collapse, such as Russia experienced and Ukraine experienced and everyone lost access to their accounts with their debit cards, what do you think would happen? We hardly have anyone that has cash anymore, if cash would even have any value. It did not in Russia, Germany, Ukraine. At least they had a pretty abundant supply of foreign currency. Heck when I was working there we were still paying in cash in US dollars or Euros. We have no such supply of cash here. We have very few adults that know how to function without swiping their debit or cards on something, heck, things get ugly when there is a long weekend and the ATM runs out of cash!

As I have said, my stuff is more an unintended consequence of being frugal and doing this for a long time, but it is not bad to have. I do not think people that take such preparations more seriously are crazy. I hope I have something to offer in trade if it comes to that.

I actually started making routing trips to the ATM lately and have been hoarding cash at home in addition to gold and silver. Not sure if it will really help or not.

[LvivLovers 39]

As much as I like the .40 S&W, LL, good luck finding ammo for it on a crunch. 9mm, .38 spec, or .45 will be the way to go. .30-06, .308 and .223 in rifle cartridges, maybe also 7.62x39

At any rate, it may be a moot point, I would expect any stores to be cleaned by the end of day 1. That pretty much happened in New Orleans.

We bought a bunch at Walmart. And yes...you either are stocked up ahead of time or you don't stock up most likely. It'll be like trying to get insurance just before a Cat 5 is about to hit...probably not going to happen.

Handload! Get some bullet molds. Hit the smaller auto shops and tire shops in your area, give them 5 gallon buckets and ask them to give you their used wheelweights (lead wheelweights are being phased out also, ask them for lead only) Wheelweight metal is a pretty good bullet alloy by itself, will work in a pinch for just about anything. Pick up the 5 gallon buckets before they are full or you will not be "picking them up" Free bullets "in the raw". The stuff keeps forever! Literally.

I don't think I'm up for that...would be cool, but I just don't have the time/energy to do it. We're pretty well loaded up( despite shooting several hundred rounds recently). I'll be buying a lot more in the near future.

[LvivLovers 39]

To anyone that still doesn't see where things are headed, I submit the following:

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

[slim 1,525]

.351 WSL, .35 WCF, .45-110 x 2-7/8, .348 WCF, .300 Savage, .45 S&W, .38 S&W, .405 WCF, .30-40 etc. I also handload very meticulously for competition shooting. Each type has their purpose.

Since we're on the subject, if you could pick only one... which would it be and why?

And just for sport, let's also say one rifle, one shotgun and one pistol.

Me - 12ga if I have a choice of just one. So much versatility and availability.

Rifle - 5.56 in AR-15 form. Light, easy to use, accurate and available everywhere.

Shotgun - Remington 870. A beast!

Pistol - .45ACP in a Para P-14. Big, strong, and lots of bullets!

Will do. More and more people are waking up to what's coming...I'm a prime example...a software dev/stocks guy. My dad was at his doctor

When I first got into this stuff I figured it'd be hillbillies and rednecks like me. I've been shocked to find those taking it most seriously are professional people with white collar careers.

I believe after the fall it'll be good to have multiple contacts from all walks of life before. Someone with unique skills will be able to find work/barter after it goes down and those with the resources stockpiled from before will need help managing/protecting those resources. We'll still need worker bees too. Everyone will have to find their place. Many of us will have to utilize skills we don't even know we have.

It's important now to network with folks who have resources. Your best buddy in the world will be nice to have on your team, but Dr. Moneybag$ will be equally wonderful.

I agree...if PMs were the preparation one makes, it would be less than useless. But I think it has it's place. Fiat currencies are going to be a thing of the past soon imo. They are simply a tool used to steal wealth and keep people enslaved. We will have to return to some kind of currency backed by a limited resource after a period of bartering. It makes sense that the PMs would be that currency. It's also a part of my hedging strategy. I'm expecting USD deflation for a period of time as the EU collapses followed by a period of USD hyperinflation as the US collapses. During deflation I'll be buying some PMs and taking out as many big loans as I can to buy real estate (the only time I'm breaking my cash only rule). The PMs will be a store of value. Once hyperinflation occurs, I convert some of that PM store back into inflated USD and pay off all the loans. All this assumes a somewhat orderly destruction. All my other preparations will be to cover the other scenario.

Seems possible to me. And a good plan!

I'd imagine it'd be something like two to three weeks so you'd have time. If you're super lucky, it'll all come out OK on the other side and you'll be sitting pretty in a peaceful nation with a bunch of property. RICH!!!

If not... you'll need some security teams.

Would love to go solar here...plenty of sun...only problem is our rampant homeowner's association.

Buy it and store it. You can always install it after the HOA has bigger fish to fry. Most likely, they'll be begging you to help out by that time.

farmland would be much better.

If you can secure some property like you're talking about, that'd be really good. It's nice to have options. I'd rather have six OK options than one solid one.

It's going to happen and those in the know, know it's going to happen. The rest of the people are just sheep.

As much as I don't like 'em, the sheep may end up being the ones that save us. If they're too stupid to understand what's going on as the sky falls around them and they just press on with life as normal, perhaps the government will have things semi-normal before the dummies even know something happened.

Now, I don't really think that's possible, but hey, anything can happen!

All very plausible scenarios and I can think of a lot more. It will almost certainly be number 1 that happens first though. When no one wants dollars anymore, everything is going to be disrupted. Food will be gone off the shelves in a few days. Cats and dogs living together...

A prediction of 3" of snow here cleans out the grocery stores - and that's when the power is still on. It will happen quickly and overwhelmingly and anyone finding themselves on the "not having" side will be forced to do whatever it takes to get what they need.

It will not be pretty.

It is weird...hell, we talked about it for years and didn't take action because we thought it was so crazy. We just wanted to think the powers that be would never have let this happen. The more time goes by though the easier it is to see the iceberg getting bigger and bigger and connect the dots. The FED is at this point just doing everything they can to hold down our interest rates because any rise is going to be devastating. They will print as much money as it takes to try to contain it, but eventually it's going to pop. It has to. They are down to a few years max of being able to keep up the charade...could be less depending on what happens in the EU. So yeah...I hope it's just paranoia or whatever, but I don't think so. What's really crazy to me is that the masses aren't thinking about this too. They know something is wrong, but the don't know exactly what it is. Everyone has been intentionally dumbed down and as long as they can keep going day to day in their own little worlds they don't stop to ask questions about the big picture.

I still hope we're wrong. But, hope in one hand and put a gun in the other.

[baron555 934]

We bought a bunch at Walmart. And yes...you either are stocked up ahead of time or you don't stock up most likely. It'll be like trying to get insurance just before a Cat 5 is about to hit...probably not going to happen.

I don't think I'm up for that...would be cool, but I just don't have the time/energy to do it. We're pretty well loaded up( despite shooting several hundred rounds recently). I'll be buying a lot more in the near future.

Try the following:

AIM Surplus

Wideners

Ammo to Go

Cheaper than Dirt

[slim 1,525]

Try the following:

AIM Surplus

It's really nice living 30 minutes from these boys! Only drawback is paying sales tax but that's typically canceled out by avoiding shipping costs.

A cool site to find ammo (and other gun-related) deals is gun-deals.com/ammo.php?caliber=.223

At the last gun show I was seeing ammo for sale at only $10/case more than the best internet deals I could find. Call me crazy, but there's something nice about buying in person and avoiding all that paperwork. *dons tinfoil hat* One less list to be on. (Even though I'm already on most of them.)

[visaveteran1 33]

Try the following:

AIM Surplus

Wideners

Ammo to Go

Cheaper than Dirt

+1 for AIM Surplus. Also, look for local, free guns and ammo trading sites. You can get deals. make trades, and eliminate shipping and taxes. I just sold a local guy a bunch of 38 Spl. ammo. He got a decent deal, I got what I wanted and gained some much needed storage space.

I agree with Slim, the 870 12 Ga. is a great one gun solution to various scenarios. I own a Express Magnum 18 inch barrel, six plus one. I keep it simple, not a lot of "tactical" junk hanging off it. I am considering a light for it.

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

Since we're on the subject, if you could pick only one... which would it be and why?

And just for sport, let's also say one rifle, one shotgun and one pistol.

Me - 12ga if I have a choice of just one. So much versatility and availability.

Rifle - 5.56 in AR-15 form. Light, easy to use, accurate and available everywhere.

Shotgun - Remington 870. A beast!

Pistol - .45ACP in a Para P-14. Big, strong, and lots of bullets!

you're gonna laugh....

shotgun - my 12 gauge remington 1100 with the skeet barrel (it has a modified but the skeet is shorter).

rifle - don't laugh - my 30-30 winchester 94. open sights, i can fire off rounds with that pretty quick - and a heck of a punch.

pistol - my daewoo dh 40, a .40 cal.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

you're gonna laugh....

shotgun - my 12 gauge remington 1100 with the skeet barrel (it has a modified but the skeet is shorter).

rifle - don't laugh - my 30-30 winchester 94. open sights, i can fire off rounds with that pretty quick - and a heck of a punch.

pistol - my daewoo dh 40, a .40 cal.

The 1100 was the popular gun to have for bird hunting, and my only deer gun was a 30-30 open sites...in Washington state the brush is heavy and there is rarely a chance to use a scope. The model 94 was and is the deer gun to have for Washington, Oregon, and Southeast Alaska.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Since we're on the subject, if you could pick only one... which would it be and why?

And just for sport, let's also say one rifle, one shotgun and one pistol.

Me - 12ga if I have a choice of just one. So much versatility and availability.

Rifle - 5.56 in AR-15 form. Light, easy to use, accurate and available everywhere.

Shotgun - Remington 870. A beast!

Pistol - .45ACP in a Para P-14. Big, strong, and lots of bullets!

One each? Now you will see me go against the grain.

The shotgun has to be a 12 ga. No brainer. I prefer the M12 but since I can only have one it would be the M870 express, my old hog gun. Sturdy, reliable short barrel. The M12 is mechanically superior, no comparison, and much better looking, smoother and I would just rather be seen in public with a M12 anyday over a M870. None of which are practical considerations. My model 12s do not go in the hog brush. They are gun cabinet jewelry and go to the skeet field.

Rifle...a .22 rimfire. #######!!!!!!???????? Yep, you bastards are limiting me to ONE rifle for a survival situation and I am gonna kill tons of food with the .22 and not alarm anyone with big noise, big flash. If I can have TWO rifles, I would go for a .22 and my Remington M760 slide action .30-06. Very accurate, common ammunition, powerful enough for anything. The .22 would be Alla's M52 Winchester. I have shotgun slugs for other "rifle type" work and they will have to do, if I can have only one rifle. it is a .22 LR

Pistol, again against the grain with a S&W M27 .357 magnum and 5 inch barrel. One of my all time favorites, versatile, powerful, good range of ammo choice. I would hate to leave behind my beloved M1911, but it is not as versatile and useful. A better pure defense gun, no doubt. I also have a S&W M29 "mountain gun" .44 Mag with 4" barrel which is a close runner up, but the .357 is more useful IF you also have a rifle and shotgun. If I had to do with ONE handgun only and nothing else, I would probably choose the .44

Edited October 26, 2011 by Gary and Alla

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

I'm surprised nobody here has mentioned the Ruger mini 14 SS (stainless steel), and mini 30 SS. Those rifles are big hits here on the fishing boats. From seals, to Canadian boats that drift into our waters (mast heads only after a warning shot across their bow).

http://www.ruger.com/products/miniThirty/models.html <---- mini 30

http://www.ruger.com/products/mini14TacticalRifle/models.html <---- mini 14 tactical rifle.

Edited October 27, 2011 by Why_Me

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Alla had a victory of sorts today...her first "one hole" 5 shot group at 100 yards. I do not know how to post my photos here but I put a photo of this target in our "photos" at our profile. Click on "photos". She was running up and down the line showing off her target!

Impressive! Then she was practicing her sitting position and managed four targets in a row with all shots in the "black" 9, 10, and X.

She has settled on the Wolf Match Target ammo. When we were shooting (I was using the other side of the bench since she is left handed and I am right hander we can use the same bench) she said "Keep your hands off my Wolf!" Next time we have to fine tune her scope for this ammo and then she can practice more position shooting.

[baron555 934]

+1 for AIM Surplus. Also, look for local, free guns and ammo trading sites. You can get deals. make trades, and eliminate shipping and taxes. I just sold a local guy a bunch of 38 Spl. ammo. He got a decent deal, I got what I wanted and gained some much needed storage space.

I agree with Slim, the 870 12 Ga. is a great one gun solution to various scenarios. I own a Express Magnum 18 inch barrel, six plus one. I keep it simple, not a lot of "tactical" junk hanging off it. I am considering a light for it.

Get a sling for that 870. You don't want to be carrying it for a time. A nice sling is very cheap but very useful. I have the same arm as my second loaded, after the RIA 1911 45.

[visaveteran1 33]

Get a sling for that 870. You don't want to be carrying it for a time. A nice sling is very cheap but very useful. I have the same arm as my second loaded, after the RIA 1911 45.

It's interesting you mention a sling. I have recently been looking at slings but I have a problem. I bought this Remington 870 about 10 years ago. It has the mag tube that's slightly longer than the barrel. Anyway, there are no sling mounts on this model like the current models. The stock and forend are synthetic. I do not want a single point sling for a shotgun, so I need to find a way to attach some swivel mounting points. I can drill a hole in the stock and attach a mount..but not sure how to place a mount up front. Still looking for the best way. If I had the short mag tube it would be easy but I have the mag extension.

Any suggestions appreciated.

As for rifle choice, all things considered, I like the Kel-Tec SU-16C in 223. Kel-Tec thinks outside the box and I like that.

Pistol choice is tough. To conceal or go to war? For conceal I like the Kel-Tec P9 with Cerakote finish. For war I might go with an Italian made Beretta 92 FS Compact Type L. I will always love the 1911 but my days of firing 45 rounds are over. War or nor war.