Yulia sentenced

[1HappyGuy 45]

Well, as suspected, the sentence recommended to Yulia Tymoshenko was handed down today. This is a dark day for Ukraine.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/11/world/europe/ukraine-prime-minister-trial/index.html?section=cnn_latest

[Enigma11561 336]

Agreed. But since she did this with Putin, I think he may have something to say about this.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Agreed. But since she did this with Putin, I think he may have something to say about this.

It was probably Tsar Putin's idea to have her put in prison. It's a trick right out of his book and he doesn't have a problem throwing her under the bus seeing how Yanukovych is a bona fide Kremlin crony.

It's the Rus way of doing politics. Russia, Ukraine, Belarus...three of the most if not thee most corrupt countries in Europe...well Russia could be considered Central Asiatic, but Ukraine and Belarus are in Europe. All three of those countries have a sick and twisted view on politics. Dictators for the Rus.

Edited October 11, 2011 by Why_Me

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Well, as suspected, the sentence recommended to Yulia Tymoshenko was handed down today. This is a dark day for Ukraine.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/11/world/europe/ukraine-prime-minister-trial/index.html?section=cnn_latest

I think this would be the perfect time for Western Ukrainians to split from Eastern Ukraine. Make a clean break and don't look back. It gives Western Ukraine a chance to have a real democracy and a good chance to join the EU and the rest of civilized and democratic Europe while Eastern Ukraine can suck up to the Kremlin along with a possible merger of Russia, Eastern Ukraine, and Belarus...so that Moscow can treat those countries like a Siberian Oblast as it has in the past.

Seriously the only thing holding back Western Ukrainians is Eastern Ukrainians along with the Kremlin. Let the Stalin loving ROC suck ups go down together in the sinking ship seeing how it's what they choose time after time while always blaming the other guy for their miserable choices.

Edited October 11, 2011 by Why_Me

[ONA 133]

Agreed. But since she did this with Putin, I think he may have something to say about this.

He says he doesn't understand what Timoshenko was sentenced for

[1HappyGuy 45]

I think this would be the perfect time for Western Ukrainians to split from Eastern Ukraine. Make a clean break and don't look back. It gives Western Ukraine a chance to have a real democracy and a good chance to join the EU and the rest of civilized and democratic Europe while Eastern Ukraine can suck up to the Kremlin along with a possible merger of Russia, Eastern Ukraine, and Belarus...so that Moscow can treat those countries like a Siberian Oblast as it has in the past.

Seriously the only thing holding back Western Ukrainians is Eastern Ukrainians along with the Kremlin. Let the Stalin loving ROC suck ups go down together in the sinking ship seeing how it's what they choose time after time while always blaming the other guy for their miserable choices.

This is not a likely outcome since Western Ukraine would probably end up landlocked and without a financial or industrial base. It would be easier and better to change presidents.

He says he doesn't understand what Timoshenko was sentenced for

Putin won't come to the defense of anyone that he doesn't figure will benefit him, so of course he doesn't understand the commotion. He'll probably just say, "Oh, those crazy Ukrainians did something silly again".

[Yana&Roma 0]

I think this would be the perfect time for Western Ukrainians to split from Eastern Ukraine. Make a clean break and don't look back. It gives Western Ukraine a chance to have a real democracy and a good chance to join the EU and the rest of civilized and democratic Europe while Eastern Ukraine can suck up to the Kremlin along with a possible merger of Russia, Eastern Ukraine, and Belarus...so that Moscow can treat those countries like a Siberian Oblast as it has in the past.

Seriously the only thing holding back Western Ukrainians is Eastern Ukrainians along with the Kremlin. Let the Stalin loving ROC suck ups go down together in the sinking ship seeing how it's what they choose time after time while always blaming the other guy for their miserable choices.

Not really fair to generalize like that...although Western and Eastern Ukrainians have their differences (and it's sad to experience those differences when you're there), they're all still people of Ukraine and all the people of Ukraine deserve the right to a true democracy. Trust me, there are plenty of Eastern Ukrainians that are supporters of Tymoshenko, especially the last two generations. The miserable choice was (supposedly) made by ALL the people of Ukraine by voting - that is if they really had a choice in the first place.

This is not a likely outcome since Western Ukraine would probably end up landlocked and without a financial or industrial base. It would be easier and better to change presidents.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Not really fair to generalize like that...although Western and Eastern Ukrainians have their differences (and it's sad to experience those differences when you're there), they're all still people of Ukraine and all the people of Ukraine deserve the right to a true democracy. Trust me, there are plenty of Eastern Ukrainians that are supporters of Tymoshenko, especially the last two generations. The miserable choice was (supposedly) made by ALL the people of Ukraine by voting - that is if they really had a choice in the first place.

This is not a likely outcome since Western Ukraine would probably end up landlocked and without a financial or industrial base. It would be easier and better to change presidents.

That miserable choice you speak of was made by Eastern Ukrainians. She pulled most of the votes from Western Ukraine. Although in defense of Eastern Ukrainians, she was a thief and a back stabber from the get go. If it weren't for her, Yushenko might still be president.

It would be nice to see Ukraine stay as one country, and be democratic, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. The differences are too great imo. Eastern Ukrainians and the Russian implants in Eastern Ukraine have made it obvious that democracy Kremlin style is what they want.

Western Ukraine has close ties with Poland and more in common with the West. Western Ukrainians don't want to speak Russian, and they don't want to be Kremlin wh*res. That's where the differences lie for the most part.

Let Eastern Ukrainians celebrate "Victory Day" while completely forgetting about Holodomor, and let Western Ukrainians take their chances with the EU and the rest of democratic Europe. Why should Western Ukrainians have to suck up to the Kremlin who does nothing but pervert everything it touches including history.

In Western Ukraine they speak Ukrainian and they are Ukrainian, not some offspring from Russian peasants that were moved into Eastern Ukraine and still have that long lost love for the Kremlin and everything Russian.

Edited October 12, 2011 by Why_Me

[Yana&Roma 0]

That miserable choice you speak of was made by Eastern Ukrainians. She pulled most of the votes from Western Ukraine. Although in defense of Eastern Ukrainians, she was a thief and a back stabber from the get go. If it weren't for her, Yushenko might still be president. Reason I said "supposedly" was because it's so corrupt...that regardless of who votes for what, they still do whatever they want. But yes, majority of the votes for Yanukovich of course came from the East.

It would be nice to see Ukraine stay as one country, and be democratic, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. The differences are too great imo. Eastern Ukrainians and the Russian implants in Eastern Ukraine have made it obvious that democracy Kremlin style is what they want.

Western Ukraine has close ties with Poland and more in common with the West. Western Ukrainians don't want to speak Russian, and they don't want to be Kremlin wh*res. That's where the differences lie for the most part. I don't think the Eastern Ukrainians want to be anyone's "who*res"...I think just as anyone else, all they want is something fair...something that allows them to prosper as human beings and as a country.

Let Eastern Ukrainians celebrate "Victory Day" while completely forgetting about Holodomor, and let Western Ukrainians take their chances with the EU and the rest of democratic Europe. Why should Western Ukrainians have to suck up to the Kremlin who does nothing but pervert everything it touches including history.

In Western Ukraine they speak Ukrainian and they are Ukrainian, not some offspring from Russian peasants that were moved into Eastern Ukraine and still have that long lost love for the Kremlin and everything Russian. I sense quiet a bit of animosity in this comment and definitely not where I was taking this discussion...not sure why it's necessary to try and offend and degrade the people as a whole. These kinds of statements make discussions pointless. The long lost love that people have is basic psychology... quote]

I guess I have more of humanistic approach looking at the country and its people and felt it was unfair to generalize, when I know your statement shouldn't be applied to all.

[1HappyGuy 45]

The majority of the people of Ukraine are hard working, industrious, creative and fun loving. Their overall attitude to life is very different than the Russian people. What has been asserted here is based on people believing the political rhetoric prior to the election and the strong armed tactics. Many people believed that Yanukovich would be a strong leader and take Ukraine into a better future with many of the benefits of the Soviet Union there for them. You have to remember that Ukraine is still a child as a democracy and they will stumble along the way. Suggesting that the country split is counter productive and doesn't recognize the spirit of the Ukrainian people.

During the Orange Revolution the world witnessed peaceful democracy at work with a successful outcome. We can only hope that any changes now will also be peaceful, but I am not optimistic about that.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

That miserable choice you speak of was made by Eastern Ukrainians. She pulled most of the votes from Western Ukraine. Although in defense of Eastern Ukrainians, she was a thief and a back stabber from the get go. If it weren't for her, Yushenko might still be president. Reason I said "supposedly" was because it's so corrupt...that regardless of who votes for what, they still do whatever they want. But yes, majority of the votes for Yanukovich of course came from the East.

It would be nice to see Ukraine stay as one country, and be democratic, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. The differences are too great imo. Eastern Ukrainians and the Russian implants in Eastern Ukraine have made it obvious that democracy Kremlin style is what they want.

Western Ukraine has close ties with Poland and more in common with the West. Western Ukrainians don't want to speak Russian, and they don't want to be Kremlin wh*res. That's where the differences lie for the most part. I don't think the Eastern Ukrainians want to be anyone's "who*res"...I think just as anyone else, all they want is something fair...something that allows them to prosper as human beings and as a country.

Let Eastern Ukrainians celebrate "Victory Day" while completely forgetting about Holodomor, and let Western Ukrainians take their chances with the EU and the rest of democratic Europe. Why should Western Ukrainians have to suck up to the Kremlin who does nothing but pervert everything it touches including history.

In Western Ukraine they speak Ukrainian and they are Ukrainian, not some offspring from Russian peasants that were moved into Eastern Ukraine and still have that long lost love for the Kremlin and everything Russian. I sense quiet a bit of animosity in this comment and definitely not where I was taking this discussion...not sure why it's necessary to try and offend and degrade the people as a whole. These kinds of statements make discussions pointless. The long lost love that people have is basic psychology...

I guess I have more of humanistic approach looking at the country and its people and felt it was unfair to generalize, when I know your statement shouldn't be applied to all.

I apologize. I went too far with that post and I am sorry for any innuendo's that were out of line.

The majority of the people of Ukraine are hard working, industrious, creative and fun loving. Their overall attitude to life is very different than the Russian people. What has been asserted here is based on people believing the political rhetoric prior to the election and the strong armed tactics. Many people believed that Yanukovich would be a strong leader and take Ukraine into a better future with many of the benefits of the Soviet Union there for them. You have to remember that Ukraine is still a child as a democracy and they will stumble along the way. Suggesting that the country split is counter productive and doesn't recognize the spirit of the Ukrainian people.

During the Orange Revolution the world witnessed peaceful democracy at work with a successful outcome. We can only hope that any changes now will also be peaceful, but I am not optimistic about that.

The many people who were hoping Yanukovich would take Ukraine back to the so called "good ol Soviet days" are Eastern Ukrainians. Western Ukrainians abhor anything considered "Soviet". One look at the Victory Day celebrations in Lvov should give you a clue as to how they feel about "Victory Day". Victory Day means subjugation to Western Ukrainians. You are talking about a people who have spent generation after generation fighting and dying for an independent Ukraine and not a subject of Poland or Russia. When the Soviets moved into Western Ukraine those people didn't see them as "liberators" but as "occupiers" and butchers. Western Ukrainians lean towards Europe and they look West, not East towards Moscow. That is not going to change with those people, and there are some hard feelings with the split becoming even wider with this Yulia charade.

Democracy is on it's way out in regards to Ukraine, and it's going to keep getting worse. You have a Tsar Putin stooge in the presidency and he's going to do all he can to keep an iron grip on that power, even if it means becoming a dictator like Tsar Putin or even Lukashenko. That's what the Soviet system produced and is still producing to this day...power hungry repressive dictators who control the brainwashed masses with every means possible.

I fear it's all over for a single democratic Ukraine. Ukraine is in for some dark times and there is no reason Western Ukrainians should have to go down with the sinking ship. It's not what they want, and they deserve better.

Edited October 13, 2011 by Why_Me

[1HappyGuy 45]

I'm sorry if you think is was only Eastern Ukraine that was duped by Yanukovich. Unfortunately, even my mother in law voted for the jerk. My wife has no sympathy for her Mom now that she is complaining. But if you think that Western Ukraine would have a chance of breaking off, then you lost the lessons of the soviets.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

I'm sorry if you think is was only Eastern Ukraine that was duped by Yanukovich. Unfortunately, even my mother in law voted for the jerk. My wife has no sympathy for her Mom now that she is complaining. But if you think that Western Ukraine would have a chance of breaking off, then you lost the lessons of the soviets.

I'm not understanding the part of your post where you state Western Ukraine can't make it on it's own. Maybe you should read up on the history of Western Ukraine. The only thing Western Ukraine has in common with the East is roots to the Kyiv Rus and that's where the similarities end. Western Ukraine needs the East like they need a giant dose of cancer. Western Ukraine doesn't need the dilapidated factories in the East. Poland and the EU will step in a heart beat with loans for Western Ukraine if they vote to succeed. There is zero reason why Western Ukrainians should have to suffer from the decisions of the East. They didn't ask for it, and they don't deserve it. They deserve better, and trust me they will seek better when the situation in Ukraine gets worse, and mark my words we are just now seeing the beginning of the end of democracy in Ukraine. Nobody loves their freedom and independence more than a Western Ukrainian. If you doubt that, ask any old Pole from lesser Poland or old Soviet from the East. They Western Ukrainians fought both of them along with the Germans and never gave an inch of ground until they ran out of bullets and man power.

Edited October 13, 2011 by Why_Me

[ONA 133]

Western Ukrainians pretty much hate both Russia and Poland and want independence from both. The problem is that there is NOTHING in the Western Ukraine, except for good universities and nice museums. So, unless you're a teacher or work abroad (a lot of them work in other Eastern European countries or in some Western European countries), you're pretty much a drunk. I don't see the Western Ukraine long and happy existence if they become a separate state.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Western Ukrainians pretty much hate both Russia and Poland and want independence from both. The problem is that there is NOTHING in the Western Ukraine, except for good universities and nice museums. So, unless you're a teacher or work abroad (a lot of them work in other Eastern European countries or in some Western European countries), you're pretty much a drunk. I don't see the Western Ukraine long and happy existence if they become a separate state.

German car factory's would be a boost, and the Germans are always looking for tax breaks hence the reason they stuck so many factories in Slovakia.