Official White House Petition, need your signatureS!!

[RICARDO4EVA2 194]

I would have thought that before marrying one question that might arise is where are we going to live. No different that if you have 2 USC's, one lives on the east coast one on the west. If the east one can not move then the west one should?

PS USA is not a Democracy.

My F2A is affecting my family... What you are saying is true... i am able to live with the realities .. as well as my parents.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

come on friends.....just sign the petition for us....it might benefit other categories too...bcaz if relative of permanent resident will be given status of immidiate relatives ,f2a is out of visa categories in 226000 visas ....and 88000 of f2a visas will be awarded to other categories....so all other categories may benefit from this ......

I won't sign it because I don't agree with it. I think numerical limits are a fair and reasonable way to control the rate of immigration into the US.

If you want to come up with an immigration related petition I would sign then draw up a petition that would prohibit adjustment of status from any non-immigrant visa that didn't allow for dual intent, and add a new division of ICE with thousands of officers whose sole job was tracking down and apprehending overstays for deportation. If you can eliminate preconceived intent, as well as the ability for someone to enter with a tourist visa and never leave, then it would be substantially easier for everyone to get a B2 visa to visit the US. Most of you wouldn't be complaining because your spouses and kids would be able to get visitors visas and stay for up to six months at a time.

I'd also sign a petition that would ask Congress to create a special visitor's visa for beneficiary's of a family preference visa petition that would allow them to stay in the US as a GUEST until their priority dates were current. The visa should prohibit adjustment of status (they have to return to their home country to interview for the immigrant visa), employment, and use of any taxpayer funded service (including public schools) unless the petitioner/sponsor paid the full costs of the service. Aside from occupying space, someone in the US with one of these visas would have zero impact on anyone else in the US, including the job market or the taxpayers. That would satisfy the intended reasons for having numerical limits.

[visapetition 2]

come on friends.....just sign the petition for us....it might benefit other categories too...bcaz if relative of permanent resident will be given status of immidiate relatives ,f2a is out of visa categories in 226000 visas ....and 88000 of f2a visas will be awarded to other categories....so all other categories may benefit from this ......

I think it is not immediately clear that removing the numerical limit for F2A will benefit other categories as well (1st, F2B, 3rd, 4th). If anything, it can create increased demand and a political backlash that would lead to even longer waits in those categories. Who says that those 88k visas will necessarily "spill over" and not be eliminated altogether?

What the petition is essentially asking in its present form is to give preferential treatment to F2A, how it will impact other categories is not provisioned for and remains to be seen.

I think it is, therefore, unethical and dishonest to lure people into signing something that can harm them.

I'd also sign a petition that would ask Congress to create a special visitor's visa for beneficiary's of a family preference visa petition that would allow them to stay in the US as a GUEST until their priority dates were current. The visa should prohibit adjustment of status (they have to return to their home country to interview for the immigrant visa), employment, and use of any taxpayer funded service (including public schools) unless the petitioner/sponsor paid the full costs of the service. Aside from occupying space, someone in the US with one of these visas would have zero impact on anyone else in the US, including the job market or the taxpayers. That would satisfy the intended reasons for having numerical limits.

I think reinstating the nonimmigrant V visa in one form or another (e.g. for petitions filed before January 1st, 2011) might be an interesting temporary measure to alleviate the pains of those affected by the prior retrogression. Psychologically, the bulletin jumps were the case of too much carrot, then too much stick.

[Mxjoh29 1]

I won't sign it because I don't agree with it. I think numerical limits are a fair and reasonable way to control the rate of immigration into the US.

If you want to come up with an immigration related petition I would sign then draw up a petition that would prohibit adjustment of status from any non-immigrant visa that didn't allow for dual intent, and add a new division of ICE with thousands of officers whose sole job was tracking down and apprehending overstays for deportation. If you can eliminate preconceived intent, as well as the ability for someone to enter with a tourist visa and never leave, then it would be substantially easier for everyone to get a B2 visa to visit the US. Most of you wouldn't be complaining because your spouses and kids would be able to get visitors visas and stay for up to six months at a time.

I'd also sign a petition that would ask Congress to create a special visitor's visa for beneficiary's of a family preference visa petition that would allow them to stay in the US as a GUEST until their priority dates were current. The visa should prohibit adjustment of status (they have to return to their home country to interview for the immigrant visa), employment, and use of any taxpayer funded service (including public schools) unless the petitioner/sponsor paid the full costs of the service. Aside from occupying space, someone in the US with one of these visas would have zero impact on anyone else in the US, including the job market or the taxpayers. That would satisfy the intended reasons for having numerical limits.

Yes, I agree with your second part of argument. I don't know much about numerical limits but it seems very difficult to change the immigration system and asking to take out the numerical limits. If they remove numerical limits they have to provide numerous visa numbers to the pending LPR applications. I am not agaist to any one, but reinstating V visa is very very promising to re unite departed families. Thank You for your inputs.

[Harsh_77 718]

HARSH77... DIDN'T YOUR MOTHER EVER TELL IF U DONT ANYTHING NICE TO SAY TO KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT, IF SHE DIDN'T TELL YOU, I'M TELLING U NOW

AND WHY DO I HAVE TO LISTEN TO YOU???

IF YOU DONT LIKE WHT YOU HEAR DONT COME ON THE BOARD.... I CAN SEE WHAT YOUR MOTHER HAS TAUGHT YOU.

[jhp 10]

I think it is not immediately clear that removing the numerical limit for F2A will benefit other categories as well (1st, F2B, 3rd, 4th). If anything, it can create increased demand and a political backlash that would lead to even longer waits in those categories. Who says that those 88k visas will necessarily "spill over" and not be eliminated altogether?

What the petition is essentially asking in its present form is to give preferential treatment to F2A, how it will impact other categories is not provisioned for and remains to be seen.

I think it is, therefore, unethical and dishonest to lure people into signing something that can harm them.

I think reinstating the nonimmigrant V visa in one form or another (e.g. for petitions filed before January 1st, 2011) might be an interesting temporary measure to alleviate the pains of those affected by the prior retrogression. Psychologically, the bulletin jumps were the case of too much carrot, then too much stick.

r u serious??? will it end up in longer waiting time for other categories??? i think u r more than a brilliant personality.......who even dont understand the simple calculations that if f2a will be given IR status,the visas alloted to other categories may increase( no way it will decrease) and can you prove ur argument that it will decrease or adversely affect other categories??? if yes then give us detail ..dont construct castle in air.........and most of the person in this forum are ethical and honest ...we are not here for damaging eachother...this forum is for each others help....so mind ur language....

[visapetition 2]

Caution: Long Reply. For the gist of my argument, skip to the conclusion (highlighted in bold).

r u serious??? will it end up in longer waiting time for other categories??? i think u r more than a brilliant personality.......who even dont understand the simple calculations that if f2a will be given IR status,the visas alloted to other categories may increase( no way it will decrease) and can you prove ur argument that it will decrease or adversely affect other categories??? if yes then give us detail ..dont construct castle in air.........and most of the person in this forum are ethical and honest ...we are not here for damaging eachother...this forum is for each others help....so mind ur language....

I apologize for the harsh wording used. Saying that this petition _might_ help other categories is indeed not saying that it _will_, so no outright dishonesty here. Hard day, I'm sincerely sorry.

To reiterate my points as to why it _might not_ help them in somewhat more detail:

Hypothetically speaking, I think that it is _quite a real possibility_ that Congress may decide to simply annul the freed up 88k visa numbers instead of dissipating them to other categories as a part of any reform that involves removing numerical limits for F2As.

The newly admitted LPRs will start petitioning for:

• their Unmarried Sons and Daughters (21+), adding to F2B demand
  after becoming U.S. citizens:
  
• their Unmarried Sons and Daughters (21+), adding to demand in F1
  
• their Married Sons and Daughters (and their families), adding to demand in F3
  
• most importantly, their Siblings, adding to demand in F4
  

The level of demand in these categories is directly correlated with the total number of LPRs. The petition at hand proposes to increase the number of LPRs to unprecedented levels. More LPRs - more new filings of form I-130, more people in the line.

In this case, non-F2A categories are getting the worst deal - no new numbers and a spike in demand. How big a spike?

Even granting your assumption that 88k visa numbers will not be annulled and will indeed be utilized for other categories, here's a map of the World Statistics for Fertility rates (Children per Family): http://www.pregnantpause.org/numbers/fertility.htm

Using Wolfram Alpha (http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=world+fertility+rate), we get a world average of 2.59 children per female. More than that in the developing countries that also happen to be some of the most oversubscribed. That means that an average person will have more siblings than spouses at any given time, or approximately 1.59.

What is the latest waiting list data for F2A - 361,038 people? (http://www.travel.state.gov/pdf/WaitingListItem.pdf)

Most of these become LPRs if the White House petition advocated here succeeds.

Let's be pessimistic and (using the above statistics as the basis for our assumption) assume that on average, each of the new arrivals has 0.5 of either siblings, unmarried sons and daughters or married sons and daughters left in their home country or elsewhere in the world that they would like to bring to the U.S..

361,038 x 0.5 = 180,534 of new eligible filings.

That's well above 88,000 additional visa numbers that they may or may not be granted if the numerical limit for F2A is removed. Such an influx has a real potential to clog non-F2A categories and as a consequence, have cut-off dates for these categories moving even slower (slow as they are already).

The conclusion holds even if we downgrade the assumption to 0.3 and it holds to as low as 0.24, or in other terms, if, roughly, 1 in 4 of the F2As has at least one brother, sister, son or daughter - a reasonable assumption, in my book.

Therefore, to summarize, the removal of numerical limits for F2As _might_ benefit other categories to a higher or lesser extent only if we assume that: a) 88k of freed visa numbers will not be simply annulled; b) the number of people in other categories in whose name people currently in the F2A waiting list will be able to petition is on average less than 0.24 per person.

How much credence one would give to the idea of removing F2A numerical limits benefiting everyone else would depend on how they view the likelihood of the two factors above being true at the same time.

To be clear, I do not deny that the petition is very good for F2As, I'm just trying to say that it is not patently beneficial for people in other categories.

Edited October 14, 2011 by visapetition

[jhp 10]

Caution: Long Reply. For the gist of my argument, skip to the conclusion (highlighted in bold).

I apologize for the harsh wording used. Saying that this petition _might_ help other categories is indeed not saying that it _will_, so no outright dishonesty here. Hard day, I'm sincerely sorry.

To reiterate my points as to why it _might not_ help them in somewhat more detail:

Hypothetically speaking, I think that it is _quite a real possibility_ that Congress may decide to simply annul the freed up 88k visa numbers instead of dissipating them to other categories as a part of any reform that involves removing numerical limits for F2As.

The newly admitted LPRs will start petitioning for:

• their Unmarried Sons and Daughters (21+), adding to F2B demand
  after becoming U.S. citizens:
  
• their Unmarried Sons and Daughters (21+), adding to demand in F1
  
• their Married Sons and Daughters (and their families), adding to demand in F3
  
• most importantly, their Siblings, adding to demand in F4
  

The level of demand in these categories is directly correlated with the total number of LPRs. The petition at hand proposes to increase the number of LPRs to unprecedented levels. More LPRs - more new filings of form I-130, more people in the line.

In this case, non-F2A categories are getting the worst deal - no new numbers and a spike in demand. How big a spike?

Even granting your assumption that 88k visa numbers will not be annulled and will indeed be utilized for other categories, here's a map of the World Statistics for Fertility rates (Children per Family): http://www.pregnantpause.org/numbers/fertility.htm

Using Wolfram Alpha (http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=world+fertility+rate), we get a world average of 2.59 children per female. More than that in the developing countries that also happen to be some of the most oversubscribed. That means that an average person will have more siblings than spouses at any given time, or approximately 1.59.

What is the latest waiting list data for F2A - 361,038 people? (http://www.travel.state.gov/pdf/WaitingListItem.pdf)

Most of these become LPRs if the White House petition advocated here succeeds.

Let's be pessimistic and (using the above statistics as the basis for our assumption) assume that on average, each of the new arrivals has 0.5 of either siblings, unmarried sons and daughters or married sons and daughters left in their home country or elsewhere in the world that they would like to bring to the U.S..

361,038 x 0.5 = 180,534 of new eligible filings.

That's well above 88,000 additional visa numbers that they may or may not be granted if the numerical limit for F2A is removed. Such an influx has a real potential to clog non-F2A categories and as a consequence, have cut-off dates for these categories moving even slower (slow as they are already).

The conclusion holds even if we downgrade the assumption to 0.3 and it holds to as low as 0.24, or in other terms, if, roughly, 1 in 4 of the F2As has at least one brother, sister, son or daughter - a reasonable assumption, in my book.

Therefore, to summarize, the removal of numerical limits for F2As _might_ benefit other categories to a higher or lesser extent only if we assume that: a) 88k of freed visa numbers will not be simply annulled; b) the number of people in other categories in whose name people currently in the F2A waiting list will be able to petition is on average less than 0.24 per person.

How much credence one would give to the idea of removing F2A numerical limits benefiting everyone else would depend on how they view the likelihood of the two factors above being true at the same time.

To be clear, I do not deny that the petition is very good for F2As, I'm just trying to say that it is not patently beneficial for people in other categories.

its ok friend...we all are friends here .....i am also sorry for a little harsh words with you which is not in my nature ...so sorry for that.

coming back to the topic....

your argument is very very weak....as you are saying that giving IR status to LPR spouses and childeren will increase filing in F1,F2B,F3,f4....its not possibe my friend bcaz spouses and children dont have child more than 21 years old...do you think spouse of f2a can have child more than 21 years????? (only in few cases, where petitioner is on h1b or work visa and got green card then and only then it may possible but in that case spouse is already in usa and children also may be) ...so F1 ,F3 and F2b will not be affected by this at all....and F4 may affect after 5 yrs when spouse become citizen but this petition will not affect F4 in the near future....so currently filed f4 cases also will not be affected by signning this petition.....

so when i told it may benefit other categories too....i mean it may possible that congress may remain 226000 visas intact and other categories may benefit

Edited October 14, 2011 by jhp

[visapetition 2]

your argument is very very weak....as you are saying that giving IR status to LPR spouses and childeren will increase filing in F1,F2B,F3,f4....its not possibe my friend bcaz spouses and children dont have child more than 21 years old...do you think spouse of f2a can have child more than 21 years????? (only in few cases, where petitioner is on h1b or work visa and got green card then and only then it may possible but in that case spouse is already in usa and children also may be) ...so F1 ,F3 and F2b will not be affected by this at all....and F4 may affect after 5 yrs when spouse become citizen but this petition will not affect F4 in the near future....so currently filed f4 cases also will not be affected by signning this petition.....

so when i told it may benefit other categories too....i mean it may possible that congress may remain 226000 visas intact and other categories may benefit

Actually, you are right. I haven't thought this through as to the F1, F2B, F3 - most likely for the majority of cases these will not be an issue. One possible situation is if the spouse has a child from a prior marriage / relationship, who is left behind because he/she cannot be petitioned for at the same time with the spouse (not a biological child of the petitioner) and who ages out of F2A. This is actually my case (I'm the child, though not aged out yet) and therefore I've made a fallacy of assuming this to be far more common than it probably is.

As to the siblings, based on the statistics I provide in the previous post, we can assume that on average there should be approximately 1.59 per person (as there are on average 2.59 children born to each female in the world and we can assume that the applicant pool sample approximates the world population).

Thus, if each F2A-turned-LPR petitions for his/her sibling, we can expect <number of F2As> x 1.59 new filings in F4, or more than the number of freed visas. But there are other factors - not everyone has a good relationship with their siblings, not all siblings want to emigrate etc.

Having been convinced, I tentatively withdraw my objection - F1, F2B, F3 - please sign the petition, it might help you too. F4 - judge for yourself.

Edited October 14, 2011 by visapetition

[jhp 10]

Actually, you are right. I haven't thought this through as to the F1, F2B, F3 - most likely for the majority of cases these will not be an issue. One possible situation is if the spouse has a child from a prior marriage / relationship, who is left behind because he/she cannot be petitioned for at the same time with the spouse (not a biological child of the petitioner) and who ages out of F2A. This is actually my case (I'm the child, though not aged out yet) and therefore I've made a fallacy of assuming this to be far more common than it probably is.

As to the siblings, based on the statistics I provide in the previous post, we can assume that on average there should be approximately 1.59 per person (as there are on average 2.59 children born to each female in the world and we can assume that the applicant pool sample approximates the world population).

Thus, if each F2A-turned-LPR petitions for his/her sibling, we can expect <number of F2As> x 1.59 new filings in F4, or more than the number of freed visas. But there are other factors - not everyone has a good relationship with their siblings, not all siblings want to emigrate etc.

Having been convinced, I tentatively withdraw my objection - F1, F2B, F3 - please sign the petition, it might help you too. F4 - judge for yourself.

thanks friend.....look this is the proof of my point....and point is that most of the people on this forum are honest and ethical.....as you commited ur mistake this is the honesty.....thanks once again....

[PD is Current. 50]

www.whitehouse.gov/29Y 583 as of today

We can do better than that!

[RICARDO4EVA2 194]

www.whitehouse.gov/29Y 583 as of today

We can do better than that!

To get to the goal for the next 17 days... the petition needs about 1,364 persons to sign it per day..

[f2a4spouse 4]

To get to the goal for the next 17 days... the petition needs about 1,364 persons to sign it per day..

I have sent an email to local news media along with the link to the petition, highlighting the grieveances of legal permanent residents. Hopefully they'll pick up the "story" and bring it out in the public who will also support our "demand".

btw Im really surprised by the TEABAGGERS on this forum as well.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

I have sent an email to local news media along with the link to the petition, highlighting the grieveances of legal permanent residents. Hopefully they'll pick up the "story" and bring it out in the public who will also support our "demand".

btw Im really surprised by the TEABAGGERS on this forum as well.

Yeah, this is really going to help you drum up support.

[PD is Current. 50]

btw Im really surprised by the TEABAGGERS on this forum as well.

room full of them here. amen