Is this it?

[ace13 0]

The discussions that hubby and I have had over "what happens if I get pregnant by mistake in the meantime" have been interesting to say the least, and I still do not know what I would do in that situation.

I'm sure they ARE interesting... I don't for a minute believe that the majority of women who go through these decisions do so lightly...

Oh, but if you were to believe the "pro-life" crowd's propaganda, the majority of women practically make it a sport to go and have abortions. Hell, it sometimes sounds as if they have competitions as to who gets to abort, excuse me, violently murder the most babies in a lifetime. That's why the "pro-life" crowd is calling so loudly for big governemt to come in and make decisions for these sick elements of our society since they are, quite obviously, too careless and irresponsible to make any such decision for themselves. Of course, they are not too irresponsible and careless to be the breeding machine producing babies for potential parents willing to adopt. That is, if it happens to be a desirable baby. Otherwise, it just gets piled on with the rest of them undesirables...

There is something seriously wrong in your head.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The discussions that hubby and I have had over "what happens if I get pregnant by mistake in the meantime" have been interesting to say the least, and I still do not know what I would do in that situation.

I'm sure they ARE interesting... I don't for a minute believe that the majority of women who go through these decisions do so lightly...

Oh, but if you were to believe the "pro-life" crowd's propaganda, the majority of women practically make it a sport to go and have abortions. Hell, it sometimes sounds as if they have competitions as to who gets to abort, excuse me, violently murder the most babies in a lifetime. That's why the "pro-life" crowd is calling so loudly for big governemt to come in and make decisions for these sick elements of our society since they are, quite obviously, too careless and irresponsible to make any such decision for themselves. Of course, they are not too irresponsible and careless to be the breeding machine producing babies for potential parents willing to adopt. That is, if it happens to be a desirable baby. Otherwise, it just gets piled on with the rest of them undesirables...

There is something seriously wrong in your head.

What makes you say that? What part of what I said precisely?

[ace13 0]

The discussions that hubby and I have had over "what happens if I get pregnant by mistake in the meantime" have been interesting to say the least, and I still do not know what I would do in that situation.

I'm sure they ARE interesting... I don't for a minute believe that the majority of women who go through these decisions do so lightly...

Oh, but if you were to believe the "pro-life" crowd's propaganda, the majority of women practically make it a sport to go and have abortions. Hell, it sometimes sounds as if they have competitions as to who gets to abort, excuse me, violently murder the most babies in a lifetime. That's why the "pro-life" crowd is calling so loudly for big governemt to come in and make decisions for these sick elements of our society since they are, quite obviously, too careless and irresponsible to make any such decision for themselves. Of course, they are not too irresponsible and careless to be the breeding machine producing babies for potential parents willing to adopt. That is, if it happens to be a desirable baby. Otherwise, it just gets piled on with the rest of them undesirables...

There is something seriously wrong in your head.

What makes you say that? What part of what I said precisely?

Everything. Your whole attitude. Sad And very inaccurate And I know you really want some harsh comeback, but it is just draining. I am really sorry you feel that way.

[Sister Fracas 5]

I'm still wondering what the answer is to my hypothetical situation....I'll include it below...not looking for anyone in particualr to respond, just anyone from the anti-choice crowd....

Here's how I see it from my own perspective. I take two medications, three times daily to control a disorder that I will have for life. Six pills a day. My condition is VERY WELL managed by these drugs and I remain not only healthy but safe. To remove myself from these medications would be dangerous to my health. But here's the catch, both of these drugs are known to cause serious birth defects. And because I've researched being pregnant in with my condition (many years ago when I DID think I might want children), I know that just by being pregnant, I can put myself, not to mention a fetus' life at risk.

Now consider the hypothetical situation....I become pregnant, through a fault of a birth control method. Afterall NO birth control is 100% except abstinence. So what do I do? Well, like scores of women monthly, I've had a few scares in my life, the late cycle, the days of panic-mode. I've done my abortion research and know the procedures/risks/success rate. I would fully expect to receive more than adequate counselling and information at a clinic were this to be my choice. And if I had to make it, I would, if the option were still legal and available. But if it weren't, and I were forced to carry a life to term for someone else to adopt, because I don't want a child anyway, can any of the anti-abortion folks guarantee that the child that I deliver, with a high probablity of having serious birth defects, would be desirable to not only them, but to someone else to adopt? Why should I have to put myself and a fetus' life at risk?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The discussions that hubby and I have had over "what happens if I get pregnant by mistake in the meantime" have been interesting to say the least, and I still do not know what I would do in that situation.

I'm sure they ARE interesting... I don't for a minute believe that the majority of women who go through these decisions do so lightly...

Oh, but if you were to believe the "pro-life" crowd's propaganda, the majority of women practically make it a sport to go and have abortions. Hell, it sometimes sounds as if they have competitions as to who gets to abort, excuse me, violently murder the most babies in a lifetime. That's why the "pro-life" crowd is calling so loudly for big governemt to come in and make decisions for these sick elements of our society since they are, quite obviously, too careless and irresponsible to make any such decision for themselves. Of course, they are not too irresponsible and careless to be the breeding machine producing babies for potential parents willing to adopt. That is, if it happens to be a desirable baby. Otherwise, it just gets piled on with the rest of them undesirables...

There is something seriously wrong in your head.

What makes you say that? What part of what I said precisely?

Everything. Your whole attitude. Sad And very inaccurate And I know you really want some harsh comeback, but it is just draining. I am really sorry you feel that way.

There isn't a thing wrong in my head. I assure you. I am looking forward to becoming a father in just under seven months. My wife and I made a choice to have this baby. And we do everything and anything we can to ensure that it is a healthy baby. Among other things, I quit smoking once we decided to start trying to conceive as soon as the vaccination Nani had to get for her immigration formalities wears off. Trust me, there is nothing wrong in my head.

I'd just like for someone from the "don't abort, just give it up for adoption crowd" to riddle me this:

What exactly makes you think that a woman that is not going to be careful, considerate and responsible in making her choice as to whether or not to carry a fetus to term in her body (to be sure, that choice is overwhelmingly made well before that embryo biologically becomes a baby) and needs, so the apparent logic, the government to step in and make the choice for her, effectively forcing her to carry the fetus to term in her body, against her will no matter what, is going to be the careful, considerate and responsible woman that it takes to ensure the delivery of a healthy baby that has a fair shot at a decent live starting with a fair shot to even be adopted? What exactly makes you think that? And why?

Oh, and my earlier post wasn't exactly innacurate but rather purposely exaggerated. That's a big difference.

Edited February 25, 2006 by ET-US2004

[dalegg 143]

I'm still wondering what the answer is to my hypothetical situation....I'll include it below...not looking for anyone in particualr to respond, just anyone from the anti-choice crowd....

Here's how I see it from my own perspective. I take two medications, three times daily to control a disorder that I will have for life. Six pills a day. My condition is VERY WELL managed by these drugs and I remain not only healthy but safe. To remove myself from these medications would be dangerous to my health. But here's the catch, both of these drugs are known to cause serious birth defects. And because I've researched being pregnant in with my condition (many years ago when I DID think I might want children), I know that just by being pregnant, I can put myself, not to mention a fetus' life at risk.

Now consider the hypothetical situation....I become pregnant, through a fault of a birth control method. Afterall NO birth control is 100% except abstinence. So what do I do? Well, like scores of women monthly, I've had a few scares in my life, the late cycle, the days of panic-mode. I've done my abortion research and know the procedures/risks/success rate. I would fully expect to receive more than adequate counselling and information at a clinic were this to be my choice. And if I had to make it, I would, if the option were still legal and available. But if it weren't, and I were forced to carry a life to term for someone else to adopt, because I don't want a child anyway, can any of the anti-abortion folks guarantee that the child that I deliver, with a high probablity of having serious birth defects, would be desirable to not only them, but to someone else to adopt? Why should I have to put myself and a fetus' life at risk?

Well, first, your talking about your life being at risk. There are few people who oppose abortions if it means saving the persons life. The South Dakota bill even leaves room for life-saving operations.

For the few people that oppose abortions even in those circumstances, they believe that the entire life process begins and ends with God, so if you die due to complications of pregnancy, it is God's will. By having the abortion you would be choosing your life over the fetuses (granted that may mean both of you), but the decision over who lives and who dies is not supposed to be made by anyone but God.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

For the few people that oppose abortions even in those circumstances, they believe that the entire life process begins and ends with God, so if you die due to complications of pregnancy, it is God's will. By having the abortion you would be choosing your life over the fetuses (granted that may mean both of you), but the decision over who lives and who dies is not supposed to be made by anyone but God.

So, those would be the folks who don't know what a doctor or a hospital is? I mean, if they get sick how dare they seek a doctor's help and defy God's will to call them home?

[dalegg 143]

So, those would be the folks who don't know what a doctor or a hospital is? I mean, if they get sick how dare they seek a doctor's help and defy God's will to call them home?

Some do take it that far actually. I'm sure you're familiar with Christian Science.

On a side note- I would like to thank everyone for making my topic 5 stars.

Edited February 25, 2006 by dalegg

[minha_raposa 0]

CDCs 2002 Abortion Statistics

854,000 abortions

Reasons given for Abortions (may be biased)

Less than 2% due to rape

[Fischkoepfin 1]

CDCs 2002 Abortion Statistics

854,000 abortions

Reasons given for Abortions (may be biased)

Less than 2% due to rape

Read several pages back in this thread for a more detailed statistic that presents a different pictures. As you can find out in this thread there are many reasons to have abortions and just because you think it's bad doesn't mean that you can make the decision for me as well. I think driving is bad for you and your health and I still don't take the streets to outlaw it....

[Fischkoepfin 1]

The reason I believe that there aren't so-called "suicide clinics" or whatever is because, despite all the attempts to release people from the bonds of personal responsibility, we haven't yet gotten to the point where we think it's ok to let people just give up to the point of their own death. Just imagine the implications of such suicide clinics for people with mental illness. No need to seek treatment anymore and try to get your life on track. I can almost guarantee I wouldn't be around anymore. My life would have ended and the purpose of me being on this earth would have gone unfulfilled.

Are you guys for real? Suicide clinics?

When someone is mentally ill, they have no idea what they are doing to themselves and need protection from themselves. We are supposed to help them, not let them kill themselves. Oh, he's mentally handicaped...yes he is stabbing himself in the arm--but that's ok. GIVE ME A BREAK!!! Hi. I'm a teenager and overweight and want to kill myself because I don't have a date to the prom and no one likes me. Oh, you want to kill yourself. That is your right. Here are some pills.

I think that your posts show that you have not really comprehended what actually happens at an abortion clinic and what the purpose of abortion clinics is. As ceriserose pointed out already, the "suicide clinic" idea was purely theoretical as a way to reflect on free choice. I don't think it is a viable possibility because people will misunderstand the concept of a clinic that would be available for people who would like to die and because the state does not allow us to take responsibility of our own adult actions.

Assuming that people could just go to such a clinic and then take a pill misunderstands the idea of "clinic/hospital." At any clinic, doctor are bound to the Hypocratic Oath, making it their primary objective to help the patient in any way possible. This means that at a hypothetical suicide clinic the first objective would not be to hand out some pills but to find other ways to help the patient be it through counseling, medication and so on. For this reason, I called it suicide (prevention) clinic because it would be mainly for suicide prevention and helping people cope with their problems. It would have the added effect of bringing a taboo (suicide) into public view and destigmatizing mental illness because it would normalize it.

As things are now, people commit suicide even without the availability of a clinic and instead of trying to help them accept their problem as a mental illness, we stigmatize the disease and exclude the mentally ill from society by criminalizing suicide. If it's a crime, it's not normal, despite the fact that depression is about as common as cancer or arthritis.

To come back to abortion - the topic for which suicide served as a straw-man - if a woman wants to have an abortion, she will not just enter the abortion clinic, have the abortion, and walk out twenty minutes later to continue her life. Abortion clinics (a true misnomer) are primarily places that try to help pregnant women through councelling. Without pre- and post-abortion councelling, no abortion. The idea is to help women make the decision that is right for them and the embryo, and that decision is not always to continue the pregnancy because with having children comes responsibility, and I do not think it is selfish if a woman decides she can't take that responsibility. It's her choice but is is also the circumstances she lives in the determine what her decision will be.

[ace13 0]

It passed in South Dakota. Good for them! I hope other states follow suit

[ace13 0]

Moreover, the Legislature finds that the guarantee of due process of law under the Constitution of South Dakota applies equally to born and unborn human beings, and that under the Constitution of South Dakota, a pregnant mother and her unborn child, each possess a natural and inalienable right to life.

Edited February 25, 2006 by ace13

[Sister Fracas 5]

It passed in South Dakota. Good for them! I hope other states follow suit

And I suppose YAY...back to the coat hanger for women in South Dakota...it's the first step. Because if you think abortion is REALLY going to go away, you are naive.

[Welshcookie 17]

What a sad step backwards.....