Is this it?

[Carol&Marc 0]

Also why is it that if someone wants to commit suicide they keep the people from doing it,its "their body" why dont we have suicide clinics,just wondering?

Because we live in a society that places the value of "life" for life's sake above quality of life.

There are people out there, medical professionals and laypersons, who are assisting the terminally ill or chronically diseased to die with dignity on their own terms. It's just hidden, like the back alley abortion clinics of the past. Maybe one day that right to choose will be an option as well.

I agree with terminal illness, but nowhere in my previous post was this mentioned!

[ceriserose 1]

Also why is it that if someone wants to commit suicide they keep the people from doing it,its "their body" why dont we have suicide clinics,just wondering?

Because we live in a society that places the value of "life" for life's sake above quality of life.

There are people out there, medical professionals and laypersons, who are assisting the terminally ill or chronically diseased to die with dignity on their own terms. It's just hidden, like the back alley abortion clinics of the past. Maybe one day that right to choose will be an option as well.

I agree with terminal illness, but nowhere in my previous post was this mentioned!

My answer to your "just wondering", which is my opinion of course, was in the first line of my response...that we live in a society that places the value of "life" for life's sake above quality of life.

The rest was my extrapolating on the subject. In other countries there are legally sanctioned "suicide clinics" (for lack of a better term) for the terminally ill to die on their terms.

As for the non-terminally ill, those who just want to die for XX reason(s), then maybe there should be suicide clinics with counselling, options, and humane ways to do it. But then I also believe that a lot of the reasons people feel suicide is their "only" option is because of the way society is structured, and the society pressures because of it. But this is a really far off tangent, and honestly, I have need for way more coffee today before going there. hehe

[Fischkoepfin 1]

Also why is it that if someone wants to commit suicide they keep the people from doing it,its "their body" why dont we have suicide clinics,just wondering?

Because we live in a society that places the value of "life" for life's sake above quality of life.

There are people out there, medical professionals and laypersons, who are assisting the terminally ill or chronically diseased to die with dignity on their own terms. It's just hidden, like the back alley abortion clinics of the past. Maybe one day that right to choose will be an option as well.

I agree with terminal illness, but nowhere in my previous post was this mentioned!

It's because suicide is a taboo as well. I don't understand why there are laws against suicide and even worse why people who unsuccessfully attempt to commit suicide could actually face charges for attempted murder should they survive. If someone wants to kill him-/herself then it's his/her decision.

Having suicide (prevention) clinics would perhaps even be a good idea because it would offer people with serious mental illnesses to find a place to find help and it would bring the issue out into the open. There is way too much stigma attached to mental illnesses and while a suicide clinic would seem a cynical solution, it would also make depression etc seem less out of the ordinary and people would have a place to turn to.

[Carol&Marc 0]

Also why is it that if someone wants to commit suicide they keep the people from doing it,its "their body" why dont we have suicide clinics,just wondering?

Because we live in a society that places the value of "life" for life's sake above quality of life.

There are people out there, medical professionals and laypersons, who are assisting the terminally ill or chronically diseased to die with dignity on their own terms. It's just hidden, like the back alley abortion clinics of the past. Maybe one day that right to choose will be an option as well.

I agree with terminal illness, but nowhere in my previous post was this mentioned!

My answer to your "just wondering", which is my opinion of course, was in the first line of my response...that we live in a society that places the value of "life" for life's sake above quality of life.

The rest was my extrapolating on the subject. In other countries there are legally sanctioned "suicide clinics" (for lack of a better term) for the terminally ill to die on their terms.

As for the non-terminally ill, those who just want to die for XX reason(s), then maybe there should be suicide clinics with counselling, options, and humane ways to do it. But then I also believe that a lot of the reasons people feel suicide is their "only" option is because of the way society is structured, and the society pressures because of it. But this is a really far off tangent, and honestly, I have need for way more coffee today before going there. hehe

Im with ya on the coffee "gulp gulp" What i was doing was trying to show the hypocracy in the two ways of viewing life!

[Fischkoepfin 1]

Im with ya on the coffee "gulp gulp" What i was doing was trying to show the hypocracy in the two ways of viewing life!

Which hypocrisy? The hypocrisy of the legal system which allows abortion but not suicide? Or the hypocrisy of most pro-lifers who are all pro-life when it comes to embryos, which would not be able to survive outside their mothers' womb, but forget about their claims about putting life first when it comes to war (lots of dead innocent babies to safe there in addition to the life of young men and women) or the death penalty (not necessarily innocent but still living creatures)? Or do you think that it is hypocritical that pro-choicers don't make the same stink about suicide?

[Sister Fracas 5]

Those of you who are pushing adoption as the alternative are not seeing the big picture. First of all, you are saying that some woman (who could be carrying a baby that will only live 6 months after birth due to genetic disease, or carrying a baby that is addicted to crack, or carrying a baby that poses a giant risk to her health, or carrying a baby that is a product of rape) should be a giant incubator for 40 weeks.

Yes, and that's wrong! Here's how I see it from my own perspective. I take two medications, three times daily to control a disorder that I will have for life. Six pills a day. My condition is VERY WELL managed by these drugs and I remain not only healthy but safe. To remove myself from these medications would be dangerous to my health. But here's the catch, both of these drugs are known to cause serious birth defects. And because I've researched being pregnant in with my condition (many years ago when I DID think I might want children), I know that just by being pregnant, I can put myself, not to mention a fetus' life at risk.

Now consider the hypothetical situation....I become pregnant, through a fault of a birth control method. Afterall NO birth control is 100% except abstinence. So what do I do? Well, like scores of women monthly, I've had a few scares in my life, the late cycle, the days of panic-mode. I've done my abortion research and know the procedures/risks/success rate. I would fully expect to receive more than adequate counselling and information at a clinic were this to be my choice. And if I had to make it, I would, if the option were still legal and available. But if it weren't, and I were forced to carry a life to term for someone else to adopt, because I don't want a child anyway, can any of the anti-abortion folks guarantee that the child that I deliver, with a high probablity of having serious birth defects, would be desirable to not only them, but to someone else to adopt? Why should I have to put myself and a fetus' life at risk?

[Traviesa 0]

The reason I believe that there aren't so-called "suicide clinics" or whatever is because, despite all the attempts to release people from the bonds of personal responsibility, we haven't yet gotten to the point where we think it's ok to let people just give up to the point of their own death. Just imagine the implications of such suicide clinics for people with mental illness. No need to seek treatment anymore and try to get your life on track. I can almost guarantee I wouldn't be around anymore. My life would have ended and the purpose of me being on this earth would have gone unfulfilled.

[ace13 0]

Are you guys for real? Suicide clinics?

When someone is mentally ill, they have no idea what they are doing to themselves and need protection from themselves. We are supposed to help them, not let them kill themselves. Oh, he's mentally handicaped...yes he is stabbing himself in the arm--but that's ok. GIVE ME A BREAK!!! Hi. I'm a teenager and overweight and want to kill myself because I don't have a date to the prom and no one likes me. Oh, you want to kill yourself. That is your right. Here are some pills.

[ceriserose 1]

Are you guys for real? Suicide clinics?

When someone is mentally ill, they have no idea what they are doing to themselves and need protection from themselves. We are supposed to help them, not let them kill themselves. Oh, he's mentally handicaped...yes he is stabbing himself in the arm--but that's ok. GIVE ME A BREAK!!! Hi. I'm a teenager and overweight and want to kill myself because I don't have a date to the prom and no one likes me. Oh, you want to kill yourself. That is your right. Here are some pills.

Oversimplified again. And you obviously didn't read/comprehend what was written on this subject above. No one said anything like that. Or even anything close to that.

[britbird 4]

comparing apples to oranges is always a fun (yet ultimately pointless) exercise.

[ace13 0]

Are you guys for real? Suicide clinics?

When someone is mentally ill, they have no idea what they are doing to themselves and need protection from themselves. We are supposed to help them, not let them kill themselves. Oh, he's mentally handicaped...yes he is stabbing himself in the arm--but that's ok. GIVE ME A BREAK!!! Hi. I'm a teenager and overweight and want to kill myself because I don't have a date to the prom and no one likes me. Oh, you want to kill yourself. That is your right. Here are some pills.

Oversimplified again. And you obviously didn't read/comprehend what was written on this subject above. No one said anything like that. Or even anything close to that.

What exactly do you think I don't comprehend

[ceriserose 1]

Are you guys for real? Suicide clinics?

When someone is mentally ill, they have no idea what they are doing to themselves and need protection from themselves. We are supposed to help them, not let them kill themselves. Oh, he's mentally handicaped...yes he is stabbing himself in the arm--but that's ok. GIVE ME A BREAK!!! Hi. I'm a teenager and overweight and want to kill myself because I don't have a date to the prom and no one likes me. Oh, you want to kill yourself. That is your right. Here are some pills.

Oversimplified again. And you obviously didn't read/comprehend what was written on this subject above. No one said anything like that. Or even anything close to that.

What exactly do you think I don't comprehend

The discussion above was in the abstract. No one said anything about who would be eligible, how it would be administered, that or how mental health/illness would/wouldn't be a factor. You took the basic premise of a concept and ran with it, sarcastically shooting it down. Even if your examples had been discussed I highly doubt anyone in favor of a suicide clinic would be all "yeah, let them kill themselves, woot!"

What I think you don't comprehend is discussing an abstract concept in generalities without putting specifics to it and naysaying it. Extrapolating information that isn't there to negate the overall concept, out of hand. One person above even called it a suicide (prevention) clinic, meaning that the goal would be preventing it, but I'm assuming with a clear understanding of ALL of the ramifications of the issue.

I didn't even say I was in favor of such a thing (and I can tell you that I doubt at this point in its history I'd trust the US government to administer anything close to it with any sort of effienciency). And since it's not likely to be a legalized entity in my lifetime, I'm also not going to spend any more time arguing this mythology with you.

[Cassie 8]

Those of you who are pushing adoption as the alternative are not seeing the big picture. First of all, you are saying that some woman (who could be carrying a baby that will only live 6 months after birth due to genetic disease, or carrying a baby that is addicted to crack, or carrying a baby that poses a giant risk to her health, or carrying a baby that is a product of rape) should be a giant incubator for 40 weeks.

Yes, and that's wrong! Here's how I see it from my own perspective. I take two medications, three times daily to control a disorder that I will have for life. Six pills a day. My condition is VERY WELL managed by these drugs and I remain not only healthy but safe. To remove myself from these medications would be dangerous to my health. But here's the catch, both of these drugs are known to cause serious birth defects. And because I've researched being pregnant in with my condition (many years ago when I DID think I might want children), I know that just by being pregnant, I can put myself, not to mention a fetus' life at risk.

Now consider the hypothetical situation....I become pregnant, through a fault of a birth control method. Afterall NO birth control is 100% except abstinence. So what do I do? Well, like scores of women monthly, I've had a few scares in my life, the late cycle, the days of panic-mode. I've done my abortion research and know the procedures/risks/success rate. I would fully expect to receive more than adequate counselling and information at a clinic were this to be my choice. And if I had to make it, I would, if the option were still legal and available. But if it weren't, and I were forced to carry a life to term for someone else to adopt, because I don't want a child anyway, can any of the anti-abortion folks guarantee that the child that I deliver, with a high probablity of having serious birth defects, would be desirable to not only them, but to someone else to adopt? Why should I have to put myself and a fetus' life at risk?

I am in the same position as you, Frances -- I take medication that is known to cause serious birth defects. However, if we decide we want children, I have the option to switch to another safer blood thinner, and then proceed. Right now, we aren't planning on having children of our own, but we might in the future, or try to adopt. The discussions that hubby and I have had over "what happens if I get pregnant by mistake in the meantime" have been interesting to say the least, and I still do not know what I would do in that situation.

[Sister Fracas 5]

Yes, and that's wrong! Here's how I see it from my own perspective. I take two medications, three times daily to control a disorder that I will have for life. Six pills a day. My condition is VERY WELL managed by these drugs and I remain not only healthy but safe. To remove myself from these medications would be dangerous to my health. But here's the catch, both of these drugs are known to cause serious birth defects. And because I've researched being pregnant in with my condition (many years ago when I DID think I might want children), I know that just by being pregnant, I can put myself, not to mention a fetus' life at risk.

Now consider the hypothetical situation....I become pregnant, through a fault of a birth control method. Afterall NO birth control is 100% except abstinence. So what do I do? Well, like scores of women monthly, I've had a few scares in my life, the late cycle, the days of panic-mode. I've done my abortion research and know the procedures/risks/success rate. I would fully expect to receive more than adequate counselling and information at a clinic were this to be my choice. And if I had to make it, I would, if the option were still legal and available. But if it weren't, and I were forced to carry a life to term for someone else to adopt, because I don't want a child anyway, can any of the anti-abortion folks guarantee that the child that I deliver, with a high probablity of having serious birth defects, would be desirable to not only them, but to someone else to adopt? Why should I have to put myself and a fetus' life at risk?

I am in the same position as you, Frances -- I take medication that is known to cause serious birth defects. However, if we decide we want children, I have the option to switch to another safer blood thinner, and then proceed. Right now, we aren't planning on having children of our own, but we might in the future, or try to adopt. The discussions that hubby and I have had over "what happens if I get pregnant by mistake in the meantime" have been interesting to say the least, and I still do not know what I would do in that situation.

I'm sure they ARE interesting... I don't for a minute believe that the majority of women who go through these decisions do so lightly...

Good thing you can change meds if you DO plan on becoming pregnant.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The discussions that hubby and I have had over "what happens if I get pregnant by mistake in the meantime" have been interesting to say the least, and I still do not know what I would do in that situation.

I'm sure they ARE interesting... I don't for a minute believe that the majority of women who go through these decisions do so lightly...

Oh, but if you were to believe the "pro-life" crowd's propaganda, the majority of women practically make it a sport to go and have abortions. Hell, it sometimes sounds as if they have competitions as to who gets to abort, excuse me, violently murder the most babies in a lifetime. That's why the "pro-life" crowd is calling so loudly for big governemt to come in and make decisions for these sick elements of our society since they are, quite obviously, too careless and irresponsible to make any such decision for themselves. Of course, they are not too irresponsible and careless to be the breeding machine producing babies for potential parents willing to adopt. That is, if it happens to be a desirable baby. Otherwise, it just gets piled on with the rest of them undesirables...