U.S. Citizenship

[Gypsyangel 11]

Having said all of that, I believe that citizenship is a deeper responsibility. I don't think anyone should go into it with the mindset of, "Oh well, I can just go back to Canada if I have to..." You really DO swear an oath to defend the United States, and you really ought to take the meaning of citizenship to heart.

Thanks to everyone for your comments. I think Wyatt's comment above reflects how I feel. I take U.S. citizenship seriously. As well, I take my Canadian citzenship seriously. My window to apply just opened, so my plan is to move forward with this in January. It feels funny, but I made a commitment to living here and there's no point to half-***ing it.

btw, visiting Toronto this week. Good to get my Canada fix, but it's also good to go back home. I will always be Canadian, no matter what the U.S. recognizes. But it doesn't mean I can't be American too.

[john_and_marlene 162]

When it comes to estate taxes, married couples in which one spouse is a resident non-citizen are treated differently than married couples where both spouses are U.S. citizens. Generally, assets that pass between spouses at the first death are free from estate taxes due to the Unlimited Marital Deduction, no matter how large the estate.

However, where the surviving spouse is a resident non-citizen, the Unlimited Marital Deduction is not automatically available. Although the government allows all taxpayers to pass a certain amount of assets at death estate tax-free, called the Applicable Exclusion Amount (“AEA”), estate taxes will be due on amounts in excess of the AEA (currently $2,000,000.00) unless proper estate planning is in place.

http://prudentplanning.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/estate-planning-and-the-non-citizen-spouse/

[AlinaH 38]

Hey so I just wanted to let you know what my interviewing officer told me today. I've always been unsure about whether or not I'd apply for citizenship and so I asked him if in the oath they make you renounce your Canadian Citizenship. He said, "No we can't and won't ever take that away from you. We just only recognize you as American, but you can have as many other citizenships as you want. As long as when you come into the States, you use your American passport."

So I know I've heard that all along, but I thought it was kind of interesting hearing it from the immigration officer.

[Canadian/American 3]

Hi,

My time to apply for U.S. Citizenship is coming up in November and while I've always planned to do it, but I'm getting a little antsy about it for some reason. I'm 99% sure I'm going to go for it, but I feel like I'm doing this without a lot of information.

Is there a resource that anyone can point me to? I did search this site, but maybe I missed something.

Also, I wondered about those of you who have decided to forgo citizenship, why did you make that choice?

Kathryn41's great post (below) from about 1.5 years ago, is a great overall summary where she mentions the benefits of becoming a U.S. citizen outweigh the libabilities (at least for now). I wondered if anyone would be interested in making a list of pros and cons based on everyone's experience and knowledge. I started off with pretty much everything I know ... pretty thin ... LOL. Does anyone have anything they'd like to add?

Becoming a U.S. Citizen

Pros:

• freedom to live in either the U.S. or Canada without residency requirements
• Assume I would get social security type benefits from both countries, if I have contributed in both countries

Cons:

• Once a U.S. Citizen, always will be taxed by the U.S. (though there is a waiver of some sort - not sure what the waiver does)
• Have to 'denounce' your allegiance to Canada (though Canada doesn't recognize this)

There is something not mentioned in this forum anywhere that I've seen. Has anyone else run into it?

When you come in on a K1 visa, your new spouse has to take full financial responsibility for you. There is a good reason for this! You have not built up any benefits in the US so if something happened to you then you would have no Social Security or Medicare! When you get citizenship, this financial responsibility is waived and that person is no longer responsible, even though you may not have built up enough credits yet for SS!!!!!

The premise you might all be going on is that you will stay married and your spouse would look after you if something happened, but what if you got divorced? That's what almost happened to a friend of mine on a K1 Visa. She was about to get her citizenship and had a weird feeling about it. She waited and then she had to leave her husband. Now he is trying to force her in the divorce to become a citizen so he doesn't have to be financially responsible!

Interesting! Has anyone else heard of that? It was her lawyer that told her that until she made something like 24 credits towards SS he will have to support her if something happened. She has an ok job and supports herself but if she was to get ill or disabled she would be stuck!

[Kimbear 53]

There is something not mentioned in this forum anywhere that I've seen. Has anyone else run into it?

When you come in on a K1 visa, your new spouse has to take full financial responsibility for you. There is a good reason for this! You have not built up any benefits in the US so if something happened to you then you would have no Social Security or Medicare! When you get citizenship, this financial responsibility is waived and that person is no longer responsible, even though you may not have built up enough credits yet for SS!!!!!

The premise you might all be going on is that you will stay married and your spouse would look after you if something happened, but what if you got divorced? That's what almost happened to a friend of mine on a K1 Visa. She was about to get her citizenship and had a weird feeling about it. She waited and then she had to leave her husband. Now he is trying to force her in the divorce to become a citizen so he doesn't have to be financially responsible!

Interesting! Has anyone else heard of that? It was her lawyer that told her that until she made something like 24 credits towards SS he will have to support her if something happened. She has an ok job and supports herself but if she was to get ill or disabled she would be stuck!

The K1 grants you a conditional green card when you process AOS yes. Which is why you do ROC (removal of condions) prior to naturalizing, ROC removes his finanical responsibility for you. During this time you can build up benefits by working as soon as you get your EAD or Green card whichever comes first. I have only been here a year and a half, and i have built up medicare and social security so i have no idea why you are under the impression we dont earn our own benefits.

It sounds to me like your friend never processsed her ROC.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Kimbear

[Ontarkie 14,226]

The K1 grants you a conditional green card when you process AOS yes. Which is why you do ROC (removal of condions) prior to naturalizing, ROC removes his finanical responsibility for you. During this time you can build up benefits by working as soon as you get your EAD or Green card whichever comes first. I have only been here a year and a half, and i have built up medicare and social security so i have no idea why you are under the impression we dont earn our own benefits.

It sounds to me like your friend never processsed her ROC.

I just wanted to point out this part, not sure if you meant it the way I read it but ROC does not remove the affidavit of support. It's in affect till death, naturalization or abandonment of the green card/going back to their Country.

[Kimbear 53]

Yeah i didn't mean it the way it read. As for the ssa part well immigrant or not all us residents are governed by the same rule which is stated on the i-864 here under who this form does not apply to:

Any intending immigrant who has earned or can be credited with 40 qualifying quarters (credits) of work in the United States.

and on the SSA site:Qualifying for Social Security.

Workers do not automatically qualify for Social Security retirement benefits. Instead, they must work and pay a minimum level of Social Security taxes for at least 40 quarters during their working lives. These 40 quarters do not have to be consecutive. Currently, workers earn a credit for each three-month period in which they earn at least $900. Once they have worked and paid Social Security taxes for the required 40 quarters, they are fully qualified to receive Social Security retirement benefits. If workers have paid Social Security taxes for a certain number of quarters in the recent past,[1] they are also qualified to receive disability benefits and to have survivors benefits paid to their spouses and to their children who are under the age of 18.

Also alot of people get Medicare and MEDICAID mixed up. One is a stare emergency program the other is Federal. The i-864 specifically notes that "medicaid" is a means tested benefit just like food stamps etc. and is available at all ages, again Medicaire is for retired people.

What assistance programs are not considered means tested public benefit programs?

The following types of assistance are not considered means tested public benefits and do not have to be repaid.

• Emergency Medicaid
• School lunches
• Immunizations and treatment for communicable diseases
• Student assistance to attend colleges and institutions of higher learning
• Some kinds of foster care or adoption assistance
• Job training programs
• Head start
• Short-term, non-cash emergency relief
  The only reason i can think the lawyer is mentioning these is that "friend" is and older person? Either way both of these issues are only for people 65 and older.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Kimbear

[Canadian/American 3]

Yeah i didn't mean it the way it read. As for the ssa part well immigrant or not all us residents are governed by the same rule which is stated on the i-864 here under who this form does not apply to:

Any intending immigrant who has earned or can be credited with 40 qualifying quarters (credits) of work in the United States.

and on the SSA site:Qualifying for Social Security.

Workers do not automatically qualify for Social Security retirement benefits. Instead, they must work and pay a minimum level of Social Security taxes for at least 40 quarters during their working lives. These 40 quarters do not have to be consecutive. Currently, workers earn a credit for each three-month period in which they earn at least $900. Once they have worked and paid Social Security taxes for the required 40 quarters, they are fully qualified to receive Social Security retirement benefits. If workers have paid Social Security taxes for a certain number of quarters in the recent past,[1] they are also qualified to receive disability benefits and to have survivors benefits paid to their spouses and to their children who are under the age of 18.

Also alot of people get Medicare and MEDICAID mixed up. One is a stare emergency program the other is Federal. The i-864 specifically notes that "medicaid" is a means tested benefit just like food stamps etc. and is available at all ages, again Medicaire is for retired people.

The only reason i can think the lawyer is mentioning these is that "friend" is and older person? Either way both of these issues are only for people 65 and older.

It is the Social Security benefit that she hasn't built up credits for yet (and none of us have yet I'm guessing!). And no, the affidavit is good for your lifetime or until you become a citizen or until you marry again or return to your country and blow your Permanent residence or you earn enough of your own credits! I would say it's not a good idea to become a citizen until you have the SS credits you required.

And I am 52 so while I don't need medicare I will sooner than I think about it, as just yesterday I was 20..... :-)

[Kimbear 53]

It is the Social Security benefit that she hasn't built up credits for yet (and none of us have yet I'm guessing!). And no, the affidavit is good for your lifetime or until you become a citizen or until you marry again or return to your country and blow your Permanent residence or you earn enough of your own credits! I would say it's not a good idea to become a citizen until you have the SS credits you required.

And I am 52 so while I don't need medicare I will sooner than I think about it, as just yesterday I was 20..... :-)

usually 40 quarters iirc is about 10 years. from what the different websites say.

It is the Social Security benefit that she hasn't built up credits for yet (and none of us have yet I'm guessing!). And no, the affidavit is good for your lifetime or until you become a citizen or until you marry again or return to your country and blow your Permanent residence or you earn enough of your own credits! I would say it's not a good idea to become a citizen until you have the SS credits you required.

And I am 52 so while I don't need medicare I will sooner than I think about it, as just yesterday I was 20..... :-)

I dont believe in this. I'm not going to keep my husband hostage lol. Whether hes my EX or not. I dont think its right but that's just my 0.02$

[Canadian/American 3]

I dont believe in this. I'm not going to keep my husband hostage lol. Whether hes my EX or not. I dont think its right but that's just my 0.02$

It's not the way it is, hostage! The thing is, they did not give up everything to travel to another country. There is a reason why the US government has the support form to begin with. And having been divorced once, I know that your ideas change when a person is your Ex, radically usually, but this is normal. I just wanted to point this out as an issue if you become a citizen, not make a judgment on if a person does it or not. I don't believe it is negative if you don't. Either does the US government or they wouldn't make the US citizen responsible for a person they are displacing from another country who has no benefits in this country.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Actually, the reason the US government requires a financial sponsor for an immigrant has nothing to do with the immigrant having given up everything in their own country to move here, and everything to do with preventing the new arrival using resources paid for by US taxpayers to which they have not yet contributed. It is the 'user pay' mind set. Once the immigrant has contributed sufficient resources on their own behalf (and when you are married you can count your spouse's contributions for 20 of those 40 quarters of qualifying employment as long as you are still married) they are allowed to receive tax-payer based benefits if otherwise eligible. Until they have sufficient investment in the US system on their own, their financial sponsor is expected to ensure they do not take advantage of tax-based benefits. If they do, then the US government can send the bill to the sponsor for reimbursement. That is why they make sure the sponsor or co-sponsor are financially 'able' to support an immigrant - because the US government won't.

When someone becomes a US citizen, then they are eligible for all benefits a US citizen is eligible. Medicare and SS pensions, however, are still going to be employment based whether the individual is a US citizen or not. There are US citizens who for one reason or another are not eligible to receive medicare and Social Security as well, although most people usually qualify on their own (since they need to work to survive) or through a spouse, who has been working while they are not.

This should not be a factor in deciding whether or not to become a US citizen.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Kathryn41