I-134 Affidavit of Support- Obligations of Co Signer??

[Dan & Jenni 457]

my future father in-law is more than happy to co-sponsor the I-134 and the I-1864 because he knows that if it doesnt work out between jenni and i then i will be on the first flight back to england.

tell your father that like jim says there are no obligations whatsoever in signing the I-134... and by the time it comes to signing the I-1864 which is legally binding you and your fiance will of had time to show him that your fiance wont likely ever apply for benefits because he will be wanting to work.

[eagle+eyed 8]

The I-134 isn't legally binding, in spite of what it says on the form. If your dad likes, I can show him the section of the Foreign Affairs Manual that makes this clear. The I-134 was struck down in court as unenforceable numerous times in the 1980's and 1990's. Congress amended the immigration laws in 1996, and one of the requirements was that INS (the predecessor to USCIS) come up with a legally enforceable affidavit of support. The I-864 is the result. Consulates still use the I-134 to screen for the "public charge" requirement for non-immigrant visas like the K1. They use the I-864 for immigrant visas. USCIS also uses the I-864 for adjustment of status.

If your dad signs an I-134 then he won't be legally obligated for anything whatsoever. If he signs an I-864 when your husband applies to adjust status then he WILL be legally obligated if your husband collects any means tested benefits from the government. However, you are the primary sponsor. The government will come after you first and only go after your dad if they can't squeeze the money out of you.

I would looove to see that section you speak of in the Foreign Affairs Manual! And my father would too!

Thanks everyone for all the details and responses!!

[eagle+eyed 8]

Well here I am 4 weeks later and NOA2 approved... yet NOW is the time my dad and mom want to speak up against their signatures on the I-134 and I-864. An argument lasted quite some time tonight and now I'm sitting here unsure of how to feel or what to say really...

My dad says he'll be calling immigration lawyers tomorrow to ask advice if he should sign.

My mom says a Jamaican man with 10 years of schooling (didn't finish the last 2) won't be able to find work in the U.S.

My dad says again that he doesn't want to lose his life savings over the chance of me "changing my mind" or what the F*** ever he's talking about... They both know I've never EVER planned on marrying, things have changed and I've fallen in love... Now I'm singing a tune to marriage and they're questioning everything.

I wish I could say I make enough for the guidelines. I have a son, so the head count is 3 (myself, son, finance). I am moving into a new apt this Saturday and work 40 hours a week at a steady desk job... Doing good, I'd say with 2 year schooling degree to show for.

My mom says again that they have the right to feel this is a crazy question for me to even THINK about asking them... Basically I'm rude and inconsiderate to bring these papers before them and explain the process, explain how honestly I need their signature.

My dad is always believing negatives in life come and positive is hard to find. My mom is cynical and just never really has cared much for me. Sooo now we're sitting here, when I should be so happy to have FINALLY received the NOA2 and trying not to really lose it because I don't know what the hell I do from here.

I will be in Jamaica Nov. 30th and want to have all the updated documents brought with me, including I-134. We have a month to figure out what the decision is and then get all the proofs and papers for it! I'm gonna have a meltdown. Any words of advice, knowledge... anything is much appreciated.

Also, I'm assuming I should be the sponsor and my parents should be filing as co-sponsors?

How do you explain to your parents that MILLIONS of people have their parents, friends, families sign these documents???? And their lives aren't ruined over it.

Basically I feel like they don't care how much I'm telling them this marriage is forever... they're still cynical and hold on to the what-ifs and how will it affect US?

[NigeriaorBust 4,087]

No child has the right to expect let alone demand anything from their parents once they have hit adulthood. If your parents offer then fine, if they don't then also fine. They have worked hard and have earned the right to enjoy the rewards of their hard work in any manner they please and they shouldn't feel pressured into giving one cent to their children. I am the parent of adult children and they each get very different access to the fruits of my labor, all the way from No way to me investing in their starting a business. However I would never sign an affidavit of support for any of them. If they aren't at a point where they are making the money to care for a family they aren't at the point where they should be uprooting someone from their home country and bringing them to a strange country. Your parents probably feel about the same way.

[eagle+eyed 8]

No child has the right to expect let alone demand anything from their parents once they have hit adulthood. If your parents offer then fine, if they don't then also fine. They have worked hard and have earned the right to enjoy the rewards of their hard work in any manner they please and they shouldn't feel pressured into giving one cent to their children. I am the parent of adult children and they each get very different access to the fruits of my labor, all the way from No way to me investing in their starting a business. However I would never sign an affidavit of support for any of them. If they aren't at a point where they are making the money to care for a family they aren't at the point where they should be uprooting someone from their home country and bringing them to a strange country. Your parents probably feel about the same way.

Yes understandable (though I've never demanded... but okk...)... however honestly the 125% above poverty line for 3 people in a household seems high, in my opinion. I know people making half that with more than just one kid and they do get along just fine. I have absolutely no intention of asking for any money from them-ever. Even the wedding is on me. I guess I'm looking at this differently... I can see it as a parent perspective but more than anything I'm seeing it as word given as a Yes months ago, now it's changing and I don't fully understand why because nothing else has changed... and on top of that, I don't fully understand how to best describe it to them. They're getting all kinds of information and I'm no expert on either one of the forms or the legal issues that can stem from them...

[NigeriaorBust 4,087]

Yes understandable (though I've never demanded... but okk...)... however honestly the 125% above poverty line for 3 people in a household seems high, in my opinion. I know people making half that with more than just one kid and they do get along just fine. I have absolutely no intention of asking for any money from them-ever. Even the wedding is on me. I guess I'm looking at this differently... I can see it as a parent perspective but more than anything I'm seeing it as word given as a Yes months ago, now it's changing and I don't fully understand why because nothing else has changed... and on top of that, I don't fully understand how to best describe it to them. They're getting all kinds of information and I'm no expert on either one of the forms or the legal issues that can stem from them...

You parents are probably at or nearly at the end of their intended working lives. They may have enough saved to provide for themselves and some amount of emergencies. But most parent that are old enough to be grandparents are looking forward to the time when they won't work anymore. Now you have come and asked them to co sign for something. They are worried that this may affect their ability to retire comfortably or even retire at all. Like most parents they have probably been told stories about immigrants from 3rd world places taking advantage of their spouses and their sponsors. What is you near future potential for increasing your earnings ? What does your spouse intend on doing here ? Have you sat down and tried to budget a life on what you make ? I know some parts of the country are cheaper than others but no way could you live well in southern California at 125%

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

I would looove to see that section you speak of in the Foreign Affairs Manual! And my father would too!

Thanks everyone for all the details and responses!!

I got your PM and answered your question, but just for anyone else who might want the same information:

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86988.pdf

9 FAM 40.41 N4.6-3 Use of Form I-134, Affidavit of Support (page 15):

Because INA 212(a)(4)(C

) and INA 213A require the use of Form I-864, Affidavit of Support Under Section 213A of the Act, for so many classes of immigrants, the use of Form I-134, Affidavit of Support, has been reduced considerably. Nevertheless, there still are circumstances when Form I-134 will be beneficial.

This affidavit, submitted by the applicant at your request, is not legally binding on the sponsor and should not be accorded the same weight as Form I-864.

Form I-134 should be given consideration as one form of evidence, however, in conjunction with the other forms of evidence mentioned below.

[Boiler 45,482]

It is just over $10 an hour.

Most people do not use co sponsors.

Co-sponsors do not have to be parents.

[az110965 252]

Yes understandable (though I've never demanded... but okk...)... however honestly the 125% above poverty line for 3 people in a household seems high, in my opinion. I know people making half that with more than just one kid and they do get along just fine. I have absolutely no intention of asking for any money from them-ever. Even the wedding is on me. I guess I'm looking at this differently... I can see it as a parent perspective but more than anything I'm seeing it as word given as a Yes months ago, now it's changing and I don't fully understand why because nothing else has changed... and on top of that, I don't fully understand how to best describe it to them. They're getting all kinds of information and I'm no expert on either one of the forms or the legal issues that can stem from them...

You seem like a very level headed and intelligent woman, but I respectfully have to disagree on your statement above. 125% of the poverty guidelines for 3 is about $23,000 - how on eartth could 3 people possibly exist on that?

When you first posted about this problem several weeks ago it seemed that your father was not going to be willing to sign, so my question is - what have you done since then to prepare for a contingency plan? If you plan to be in Jamaica on November 30, I advise you to grab a part time job TODAY and you'll have several pay stubs from the new job under your belt to get you over the 125% hump. Now is probably the best time to find a temporary job as most stores are gearing up for the holiday season - so you'll be able to get some extra income and be done with the 2nd job after the interview - this will at least buy you some time to prepare for the AOS income requirement - where an I-864 will be required.

I'm sorry to say that it really does sound like your parents are standing their ground on this and trying to convince / pressure them to do something they are uncomfortable can damage your relationship with them long term...

"Well here I am 4 weeks later and NOA2 approved... yet NOW is the time my dad and mom want to speak up against their signatures on the I-134 and I-864. An argument lasted quite some time tonight and now I'm sitting here unsure of how to feel or what to say really..."

Yes - it's 4 weeks later, but I believe that NOW is not when your parents spoke up against co-sponsoring - it was 4 weeks ago, and it seemed THEN that your dad had made his decision not to sign...

Edited October 31, 2011 by az110965

[eagle+eyed 8]

You parents are probably at or nearly at the end of their intended working lives. They may have enough saved to provide for themselves and some amount of emergencies. But most parent that are old enough to be grandparents are looking forward to the time when they won't work anymore. Now you have come and asked them to co sign for something. They are worried that this may affect their ability to retire comfortably or even retire at all. Like most parents they have probably been told stories about immigrants from 3rd world places taking advantage of their spouses and their sponsors. What is you near future potential for increasing your earnings ? What does your spouse intend on doing here ? Have you sat down and tried to budget a life on what you make ? I know some parts of the country are cheaper than others but no way could you live well in southern California at 125%

This is very true- my dad stated many times about the want to retire in 15 years and be able to be well off in that way...

As far as increasing my earnings, the job I'm at has a commission check on the 15th of every month that has potenial to be huge... I just started at this job in October, having left a job with more annual salary but too much drive time and overnights which I was trying to get away from.

Fiance is willing to try anything for work, with the hope of driving truck. There's a few Mexican restaurants in the area I live and have a few connections that may hire him as bus boy or something simple to start out with.

And yes I've budgeted my life. Everything is tight tight tight, with no room for extra spending otherwise it's on the credit card. My salary pisses the hell out of me, yes, due to 2 year schooling degree and ten bucks an hour to show for... However, I can honestly say that we're living just fine with having extra money to things not needed for survival- my fiance and I can talk for hours on the phone with enough money be paying that bill- EXPENSIVE!!

Jobs where I'm living at pay less per hour but with an apartment rent under $600 a month I can work with that. Money has never been something that has stressed me so, there was always a way to pinch pennies and make whatever I wanted happen to work... Now that it's not just an issue of saving but actually saving isn't enough, I'm in a whole different land with the rule on earnings for the visa... where earnings are black and white and it's either you make "enough" or don't. I can save all the money left each month and have more than someone who may make more than I do, but I plan where I put my money. Now all of that is put aside and doesn't matter what is saved from what isn't... It's how much I make per hour, per paycheck...

I got your PM and answered your question, but just for anyone else who might want the same information:

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86988.pdf

9 FAM 40.41 N4.6-3 Use of Form I-134, Affidavit of Support (page 15):

Because INA 212(a)(4)(C

) and INA 213A require the use of Form I-864, Affidavit of Support Under Section 213A of the Act, for so many classes of immigrants, the use of Form I-134, Affidavit of Support, has been reduced considerably. Nevertheless, there still are circumstances when Form I-134 will be beneficial.

This affidavit, submitted by the applicant at your request, is not legally binding on the sponsor and should not be accorded the same weight as Form I-864.

Form I-134 should be given consideration as one form of evidence, however, in conjunction with the other forms of evidence mentioned below.

THANKS!!

[eagle+eyed 8]

It is just over $10 an hour.

Most people do not use co sponsors.

Co-sponsors do not have to be parents.

With making just over ten an hour is supposed to be above the poverty line by 125%? Maybe for 2 people in the household? I've checked the site at it was $23,163 for the year and $1,930 for the month. I'd have to take home much more than I am biweekly- taxes do take out a lot each two weeks..

[Boiler 45,482]

52x40x10=?

[eagle+eyed 8]

You seem like a very level headed and intelligent woman, but I respectfully have to disagree on your statement above. 125% of the poverty guidelines for 3 is about $23,000 - how on eartth could 3 people possibly exist on that?

When you first posted about this problem several weeks ago it seemed that your father was not going to be willing to sign, so my question is - what have you done since then to prepare for a contingency plan? If you plan to be in Jamaica on November 30, I advise you to grab a part time job TODAY and you'll have several pay stubs from the new job under your belt to get you over the 125% hump. Now is probably the best time to find a temporary job as most stores are gearing up for the holiday season - so you'll be able to get some extra income and be done with the 2nd job after the interview - this will at least buy you some time to prepare for the AOS income requirement - where an I-864 will be required.

I'm sorry to say that it really does sound like your parents are standing their ground on this and trying to convince / pressure them to do something they are uncomfortable can damage your relationship with them long term...

"Well here I am 4 weeks later and NOA2 approved... yet NOW is the time my dad and mom want to speak up against their signatures on the I-134 and I-864. An argument lasted quite some time tonight and now I'm sitting here unsure of how to feel or what to say really..."

Yes - it's 4 weeks later, but I believe that NOW is not when your parents spoke up against co-sponsoring - it was 4 weeks ago, and it seemed THEN that your dad had made his decision not to sign...

I've really thought about going the part time job route for awhile actually... I speculate on how much it really would matter though, being a job I'd get say, in December and would work a few months until we file the I-864, would the officials even care to see paystubs on such a job that has lasted such a short time and possibly even temporary? WOuldn't they say it'd have to be a longer past history of working there and plans to stay there in the future to keep up the the 1,930 a month needed to be a sponsor? A part time job could easily bring in an extra $530 a month for me to make it to that $1,930 mark but my question is will they care to see temporary/short lived job experience, and would that count for sufficient sponsor salary?

With regards to my dad signing... He is understanding more by this morning how the two forms differ. The I-134 being more of a proof and not the legal binding form. That's the form he's much more comfortable with. Now, the I-864 he's questioning, and I totally understand that. It's a huge thing to ask- I get that for sure!! Though I would do it in a heartbeat for my own child, I understand they're at different point in their life than am I so it may be easier for me to just say that!

The issue with getting a second job has always been with my mom. My son goes to day care full time Mon-Fri but my mom picks him up in the evenings as I am off work late, after daycare hours close. She complains enough already and in September I was working two jobs, which only lasted three weeks due to her saying it was too much to ask of her.... watching my son, "babysitting" as she calls it. So, there's that roadblock also, which may be easily overcome with the notion that it's temporary and not a permanent schedule, I don't really know. What I do know is I'll be spending my mornings before work this week searching for a job part time that would bring in $530 extra a month- which is only a littler over $132 a week- should be easy, but again, there's the daycare issue right now... Side note, daycare lady is losing her house and in a month we may have no daycare at all... Been searching for somewhere else for the lil man to go but it's taking longer than expected!

So now I'm curious... If I make the $1,930 a month starting December, then January and possibly February when fiance may be here... Will those 3 months be suffient to be a sponsor alone? Also, the I-864 is done at the time of the green card application, correct?

[eagle+eyed 8]

52x40x10=?

That's 20,800... What does this pertain to ?

[eagle+eyed 8]

That's 20,800... What does this pertain to ?

I'm answering my own question!!

Have I been miscalculating... Do you count the actual take-home amount on your pay checks or the money earned before taxes??

I think that's obvious question now that I have it worded out... If I'm counting what I earn a month BEFORE taxes are taken out... i'm only $200 short of the $1,930 needed a month to make the sponsor!!