How about this?!!!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I told Alla about Alla's marksmanship prowess and she is impressed and surprised and I may have sparked a similar interest. We'll see how it goes thru the winter and spring. We can shoot 25 and 50 yard .22 targets in our yard. I'll let all know on her progress.

What M1A did you use Gary? I guess SA, Geneseo?

Springfield Armory. It is an NM model. Walnut stock, fiberglass handguard, unmodified except for the sling and it is an evil "pre-ban" with a bayonet lug! I bought it in 1992. I realize such things may cause me to become a criminal but so far I have handled the temptation and have not bayoneted anyone.

The variations of the M1A now are amazing, though for me I am not interested in any others, When I bought mine you had a choice of standard, NM and the M21 sniper version and that was it.

[slim 1,525]

with a bayonet lug! I bought it in 1992. I realize such things may cause me to become a criminal but so far I have handled the temptation and have not bayoneted anyone.

I bought a British Brown Bess Long Land version of the tower musket a few weeks ago and finally got my bayonet in the mail. 18" of triangular steel. Huzzah!!!

First thing my wife did was hold it up to my neck and ask, "Is it real?"

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I bought a British Brown Bess Long Land version of the tower musket a few weeks ago and finally got my bayonet in the mail. 18" of triangular steel. Huzzah!!!

First thing my wife did was hold it up to my neck and ask, "Is it real?"

Yep, she is a RUB woman.

I had a collection of US military rifles at one time, going all the way back to the civil war, but certainly not all the civil war rifles, I am not sure you COULD collect all the rifles used in the civil war. I had an 1863 Springfield with a bayonet similar to the one you describe and it was like a pole for vaulting!

The Brown Bess is even bigger. Have you tried shooting it? They are notoriously inaccurate.

[slim 1,525]

1863 Springfield with a bayonet similar to the one you describe and it was like a pole for vaulting!

I was at the gun shop yesterday to FINALLY pick up my Para P-14 and the guy added, "While you have an active NICS check... do you want to buy something else?" He steered me toward the Mosins and I almost bit. I don't have one yet, and that's the point. $99 rifles are too easy to buy. And with ammo so cheap the last thing I need is to stack another caliber and make. But, then again, those are great investment pieces for SHTF (not to mention a helluva rifle) and would be great to pass out or trade. Probably not this year, but once I have a place lined up I'll probably buy one (or five!) a month.

Anyway, back to topic....... we were talking about the long bayonets on the Mosins and he pointed out they were designed at a time when mounted cavalry was still on horseback so you wanted "a pike" just in case the cavalry charged your way. I knew bayonet charges were still big at that time but I'd never really considered standing down a cavalry charge and yep, I'd like a pike in that instance.

There's something to be said for a rifle that gives you a six foot spear while simultaneously offering a club to smash things with. Oh, and lets not forget about it's accuracy either!

The Brown Bess is even bigger. Have you tried shooting it? They are notoriously inaccurate.

I haven't shot this one because I bought it as a "non-firing repro" so I need to clean it up a little and drill the touch hole. It is built to shooting specs, just manufactured that way so they don't have to worry about customs and shipping regulations, etc. (Made in India.)

A reenactor I know let me shoot his Charleville and at about 20 yards, I missed the target completely but did hit the cardboard backer. Minute of man @ 20 yards. Awesome! Definitely reinforces the concept that these were to break up the lines and the bayonet was the real weapon. Something about a whole line of .69 caliber balls coming at me just doesn't make me want to stand there and fight. It gives me all that much more respect for the boys who did.

We talked about it a little this weekend at Appleseed. One guy said he didn't think he'd want to stand there either. But, it was "state of the art technology" in those days and they probably thought it was the best thing since sliced bread. If they had sliced bread, of course.

I'm trying to decide if I want to mold .73s or even .74s to keep 'em really tight. I may end up doing .69s for speed, just like the redcoats. I'm still amazed how they got off three rounds per minute.

As much as I like the new rifles, the old ones are just as intriguing and can definitely challenge any marksman.

[baron555 934]

AIM has nice Mosins for $79 so that quoted price is high! You'll love 'em Slim, they kick like a mule.

Bayonets are not for cutting, the blade should not be sharp.....they are for thrusting and stabbing.

The pike style is actually not very strong, the tips can break easily, thus the flat blade became more in vogue.

[slim 1,525]

AIM has nice Mosins for $79 so that quoted price is high! You'll love 'em Slim, they kick like a mule.

AIM also charges tax and $15 for a background check/processing fee if I buy from them. If not, I'll have to tack on shipping and a $20 FFL transfer fee so the $99 isn't looking all that bad. The problem we run into around here is AIM is only about 30 minutes away so whenever we buy or sell something everyone compares to AIM's prices. "Yes, but you forgot about tax, shipping, transfers, etc."

They do have nice Mosins and wonderful deals on ammo, accessories, etc., but like everything else in the shooting world, you never pay list price. There are always fees of some type. Even the gun show charges to get in. FTF transfers are best, but then you have to factor in your time, driving, etc.

Mosin is a great rifle and someday, once I've checked everything else off my list, I'll probably own a dozen of them.

Bayonets are not for cutting, the blade should not be sharp.....they are for thrusting and stabbing.

The bayonet I have for my Bess isn't sharpened.... but it's pretty sharp. The tip comes to a nice point and would, no doubt, run through just about anything someone's wearing, including kevlar.

The pike style is actually not very strong, the tips can break easily, thus the flat blade became more in vogue.

Nowhere near as intimidating though. I think of AK bayonets and I'm pretty sure I could Louisville Slugger my M-16 and still have a few inches to spare.

Since we're on the subject, has anyone put a bayonet on their pistol? Have you guys seen those crazy things?

[baron555 934]

Have you guys seen those crazy things?

What's the point? Handguns are for close range work and I'd use that instead.....having said that, doesn't everyone have a belt hung Spyderco blade that can be opened with one hand?

I have a bunch and a special "slasher" type that police frequently carry.

[slim 1,525]

What's the point? Handguns are for close range work and I'd use that instead.....having said that, doesn't everyone have a belt hung Spyderco blade that can be opened with one hand?

I have a bunch and a special "slasher" type that police frequently carry.

You guys are going to gasp a little... but I don't carry a pocket knife of any type.

When I'm at work, I carry a folding utility knife. When I'm out at the range I carry my Leatherman and a Buck 652. Other than that, I really don't have one except when I slide my credit card companion in my wallet.

[visaveteran1 33]

The Remington 870 pump was, is still, and will probably always be the king of the pumps. Most cops use them as well as military. The Remington receiver is made from a solid block of steel...so I don't think it sounds "tinny" compared to any other shotgun. Winchester has pretty much gotten out of the home defense style shotgun, so I wouldn't be sending anyone to buy one.

We all love the sound of the racking of a round...but the bad side of that is it also identifies your position. If your standing in front of your door, you might be an easy target for armed intruders. Some bad guys run, and some are hardcore and will keep coming...don't over rate the racking sound to save you. That's a myth.

I think a pistol inside the home is the best bet if you can shoot well...and if the pistol has a light on it. You shot once and one projectile goes towards the target. With a shotgun, you shot once and a bunch of projectiles goes flying...increasing the chance of hitting unintended targets or penetrating a wall. Using birdshot is controversial. Maybe you stop the bad guy, maybe you don't.

Also, in-home confrontations are often within a few feet or in your face, so a handgun is the one gun you can shot close up.

Edited December 20, 2011 by visaveteran1

[visaveteran1 33]

AIM also charges tax and $15 for a background check/processing fee if I buy from them. If not, I'll have to tack on shipping and a $20 FFL transfer fee so the $99 isn't looking all that bad. The problem we run into around here is AIM is only about 30 minutes away so whenever we buy or sell something everyone compares to AIM's prices. "Yes, but you forgot about tax, shipping, transfers, etc."

You'll have to pay tax at the gun shop too...unless $99 was out the door.

[slim 1,525]

The Remington 870 pump was, is still, and will probably always be the king of the pumps. Most cops use them as well as military. The Remington receiver is made from a solid block of steel...so I don't think it sounds "tinny" compared to any other shotgun. Winchester has pretty much gotten out of the home defense style shotgun, so I wouldn't be sending anyone to buy one.

We all love the sound of the racking of a round...but the bad side of that is it also identifies your position. If your standing in front of your door, you might be an easy target for armed intruders. Some bad guys run, and some are hardcore and will keep coming...don't over rate the racking sound to save you. That's a myth.

I think a pistol inside the home is the best bet if you can shoot well...and if the pistol has a light on it. You shot once and one projectile goes towards the target. With a shotgun, you shot once and a bunch of projectiles goes flying...increasing the chance of hitting unintended targets or penetrating a wall. Using birdshot is controversial. Maybe you stop the bad guy, maybe you don't.

Also, in-home confrontations are often within a few feet or in your face, so a handgun is the one gun you can shot close up.

I have a 500, 870 and 1300. All are great shotguns and all are plenty good enough to handle things around the house. I'd recommend any of them to anyone. I will concede the Remington is probably the most robust of the three, but that means it's also the heaviest. A little more expensive too.

As for using a gun in the house, it's a lot nicer to be able to strike someone with a club than it is with a paperweight. Buttstroke beats pistolwhip any day! And if you're going to put a light on your gun, you've already given away your position. Might as well flip on the lights. All that position stuff is nonsense anyway. Sneaking around, setting up ambushes, clearing lanes of fire - all that ####### you can read on the gun forums - does about 1% the job that flipping on a light and yelling, "I have a gun and I've called the police" will do. Anyone in your house who doesn't run when you point a shotgun at them deserves to be shot because they're not there to remove stuff from your home... they're there to cause you harm.

I believe the best home defense gun has to be a pump shotgun with a light on it. You can keep someone at a standoff distance or hit them with it if needed (non-lethal) and no matter what, you're clearly identifying your target before you shoot. With a pistol - even one with a light on it - you're closing that distance unnecessarily. Keeping them out of reach is super advantageous in a fight. With a pistol, that's extremely hard to do.

You'll have to pay tax at the gun shop too...unless $99 was out the door.

I'd have to pay tax too. However, that'd make it $107 whereas AIM would charge me the $79 + $6 tax + $15 transfer fee + my time going up there and they only offer pickup one day a week. Since I get delayed on every NICS check, that'd mean I need to make two trips. So, basically, we're talking an extra 2+ hours and about $30 in gas.

Edge = gun shop.

Although, a bulk buy would quickly negate those figures and AIM would have a great advantage. We did a big ammo buy from them earlier this year. It was awesome to pick up a pallet of ammo and not have to pay shipping. We bought, literally, a TON of ammo. Shipping would've been out of this world!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Alla went wioth me to the local gunshop, Powder Horn, last week to get some of her favorite ammo and I showed her the Moisin Nagants there, $109, thats a retail price. She was mad, "Why are Russian rifles so cheap?" They also had SKS rifles but I did not check the price on those.

[slim 1,525]

Alla went wioth me to the local gunshop, Powder Horn, last week to get some of her favorite ammo and I showed her the Moisin Nagants there, $109, thats a retail price. She was mad, "Why are Russian rifles so cheap?" They also had SKS rifles but I did not check the price on those.

SKS are now running around $300. AKs are up around $450. I know. It's crazy. The days of the $100 rifle are all but gone and the Mosin is the last one left to fill that role.

Only about 30 million to go.

[visaveteran1 33]

A shotgun, for me, poses certain problems for home defense. Where do I keep it handy in my bedroom or anywhere near me as I move around the home? It needs to be close or it's worthless. I can keep a pistol on or inside my nightstand locked and loaded or on me everywhere else. The shotgun is less easy to keep close, and will I keep it handy at all times of the day? Probably not.

From what I've read, many times the intruder(s) actually enter the bedroom or burst through the front door when the homeowner answers the door...that means a few feet to in your face. How do you wield a shotgun at that distance? Only a pistol will work at such a short distance.

The assumption is the intruder will be some distance or in a different part of the home...but what about close up and personal?

As for having a light, I think it's as much to blind the intruder as to see what's up ahead.

I like my shotgun but I see it more for sweeping the streets than a one on one scenario.

[visaveteran1 33]

The SKS is still a bargain for a semi-auto, high powered rifle. My son has a Russian model and they go quite a bit higher and are not readily available. Most ones you find now are the Yugos with that goofy grenade launcher muzzle or the Chinese versions.

My issues with the SKS are the stripper clip loading and the non-detachable, low capacity magazine. But for the money they're decent and fun to shoot.

The Mosins I've seen fired seem to have stiff or hard to cleanly rack bolts. There must be a lot of variance in their performance. There is also the hex barrel version and the round barrel version. Not sure which is preferable.