To the negative nancies out there

[KrisandJennie 35]

im just gonna pretend this topic was never posted.

what people fail to realize is that this process is hard and brutal,people are not nice to you because you have a fiance over seas.

if you think the ###### you take on here is hard,i suggest you just flat out withdraw your petition and move to your fiancee's home country,because 1) you cant be strong enough for your fiance/ee when he or she gets here and help him/her deal with the cultural shock 2) youre going to have to deal with uscis and go through this for the next 5 to 10 years.

im sorry life isnt all rainbows and peaches and cotton candy

And you would be one of the people I'm talking about!! Not once did I say I'm not strong enough. To jump to withdrawing my petition is so far-fetched, it's ridiculous! "I'm gonna pretend this topic was never posted" yet you just had to comment on it, right?? And with NEGATIVE comments, nonetheless. I never even said it happened to me, in fact, it hasn't (until you came along), all I said was when people post concerns on here, why do people (like YOU) decide to put other people down and be a major DBAG?!?!

[KrisandJennie 35]

harsh reality of life

im sorry if i come off as a ######,but seriously,this isnt the first time people have posted stuff like this,just because the advice people give them is not what they wanna hear,just like jim said

Once again, it's not the advice I'm talking about!! It's comments like "I'm sorry life isn't all rainbows and cotton candy". Not ONCE did I say it was or it should be. I know this process is hard. All I'm saying is why do people have to be DBAGS about things. You can give advice advice without being a jerk. Or well, most of us can anyways. Apparently you're an exception. If you're not going to say anything constructive, keep your mouth shut. I'm a very strong woman and my fiance and I ahve become even stronger since starting this process. I will never crumble under the pressure of this process b/c I love him too much. I don't take very kindly to people overreacting when someone has a simple question. And I'm very sick and tired of people like you who seem to think you're better than everyone else. Get off your high horse.

[KrisandJennie 35]

I learned long ago that when something is written down (email, forum post etc) then it can and will come across in the worst possible context. While I try to be helpful and constructive, there are times as Jim points out that the OP is looking for a specific answer. i.e. someone to tell them that what they are doing is right when it is obviously wrong and often fraudulent. I can't begin to count the number of posts where the person spends so much energy trying to convince the folks on VJ that what they are doing/trying to do is ok even if questionably legal from an immigration standpoint, or why their relationship is legitimate, or why their spouse/fiancee is evil/an angel. It is hard to maintain patience then and I try to resort to the "you don't have to convince the people on VJ, you have to convince the VO/USCIS/CBP/Judge etc.

When people make mistakes and that is entirely understandable. It is a stressful process.When people do things that a short perusal of the forums would show them is a bad idea (i.e. set a date for an elaborate wedding before they even submit a petition) that is silly but people are people. When people try to shortcut the system, it isn't understandable. When they then cry "woe is me" when it doesn't work, I have no sympathy for them. When people commit fraud, try to scam the system or take advantage of another person, whether it is the immigrant or the petitioner then I have no patience, no sympathy and no problem with myself or someone else saying what they think of that person.

I totally agree with you. But when someone's first response to another person's question is a RUDE comment, making that person feel stupid or small, that is unacceptable to me. No one has any clue what is going on in someone else's mind so maybe they posed the question wrong or whatever. We're supposed to have patience throughout this process yet it seems there are some people on here that don't have patience for others period. If not, don't come on this site at all. Some people are obviously on here to be on their high horse and try to make others as miserable as they are. Really can't be bothered with people that and they have no place here in my opinion.

[KrisandJennie 35]

You are trying to create an arguement over something that simply isnt true or doesnt happen.. Please point out a single question by a newbie that was met with harrasment.. It doesnt exist.. It simply doesnt happen the way you depicted it... And it's a poor attempt to to make a point.. Sorry, but nobody with a question has been harrased or bullied..

When you attempt to do something against all the advice on VJ, or the Instructions on the USCIS Forms, or against the instructions on the Website, then the outcome is simply something nobody can predict.. Those instructions are there for a reason.. when people feel they dont apply to them, you can bet that VJ'rs may get a little cynical..

I have seen it time and time again. It happens all the time. Maybe you're just not seeing it. It's never actually happened to me (until this post) but I've seen it too many times and had to say something. I'm not saying don't give advice. If someone is about to do something fraudulent or stupid then absolutely point them in the right direction. But comments like "life isn't rainbows and cotton candy" isn't helpful and it's just plain rude. That's all I'm saying. Overall, this site is amazing and I have had a lot of help on here in the beginning of the process, but more and more I'm finding responses from certain people to be inappropriate and unnecessary.

[KrisandJennie 35]

I simply don't agree with the assesment that anyone is being harsh or rude.. And the point is about the lack of sympathy from the Agencies, is they also dont care about your ability to follow instructions, if you make a mistake, regardless of you abiltiy to understand or whatever barriers, you will either have major delays, RFE's or even possibly a denial..

My suggestion is that when you say people are being rude, please stop making generalizations.. Nobody is being rude!

How is this a generalization? I have said most people on here are great and very helpful, but SOME are rude. How is that a generalization?

[Ready to do it 101]

Just as you state that posts are unacceptable to you, you do not like people's comments, and you feel like people need to get off their high horse etc some folks might not like YOU telling them what is acceptable and what is not or telling them to get off their high horse. People can post what they want. If you don't like it, then ignore. In fact I think they have more right to post what the truly feel is an accurate response (regardless of how rude it may come across to you) than you have in telling them not to be rude or that their posts are unacceptable etc. Do you understand this? People comment and give advice and it may come across as rude... but it is an answer and advise. Your post is simply stating that someone is a jerk in their response or advice. Their post is needed to the thread; your post is not (assuming your post is simply "what a jerk or why make a rude comment, etc.") People can tactfully post or they can post their thoughts in a blunt manner. It's not for you to decide how people should post. Does that make sense to you?

I totally agree with you. But when someone's first response to another person's question is a RUDE comment, making that person feel stupid or small, that is unacceptable to me. No one has any clue what is going on in someone else's mind so maybe they posed the question wrong or whatever. We're supposed to have patience throughout this process yet it seems there are some people on here that don't have patience for others period. If not, don't come on this site at all. Some people are obviously on here to be on their high horse and try to make others as miserable as they are. Really can't be bothered with people that and they have no place here in my opinion.

[KrisandJennie 35]

Just as you state that posts are unacceptable to you, you do not like people's comments, and you feel like people need to get off their high horse etc some folks might not like YOU telling them what is acceptable and what is not or telling them to get off their high horse. People can post what they want. If you don't like it, then ignore. In fact I think they have more right to post what the truly feel is an accurate response (regardless of how rude it may come across to you) than you have in telling them not to be rude or that their posts are unacceptable etc. Do you understand this? People comment and give advice and it may come across as rude... but it is an answer and advise. Your post is simply stating that someone is a jerk in their response or advice. Their post is needed to the thread; your post is not (assuming your post is simply "what a jerk or why make a rude comment, etc.") People can tactfully post or they can post their thoughts in a blunt manner. It's not for you to decide how people should post. Does that make sense to you?

I do understand, absolutely. But as you stated, I can say whatever I want as well and if someone is being a jerk, I have every right to say so. But there is also no reason why anyone should make comments to try to make someone else feel stupid. I don't understand that. Everyone deserves respect and SOMETIMES, it is clearly not given here. Everyone has a right to state their opinion or facts but to attack someone in a demeaning manner is just not necessary. I'm sure if you were belittled, you wouldn't exactly take it lying down, would you? Despite another poster's comments, while this site is here so people can get facts, it is here for support as well. We're all going through the same process so why is it so hard for some people to remember that and simply be supportive? I don't think anyone is asking for people to hold their hand, just trying to get helpful advice. And frankly, some people may not know how to look for the information elsewhere so a comment like "read the guides" isn't helpful. And some people, like me, may read the guides and just want confirmation to back that up. My fiance and I were given VERY wrong information from USCIS that may have gotten him banned had we followed through with their advice so we posed the question here and got the CORRECT information. So all I'm saying is that maybe some of the more rude people could either just state the facts or not say anything at all. That was my only point. No reason for anyone to be rude or belittling to anyone else. Understand?

[Ready to do it 101]

I think "attacks" as you have put it are few and far between. "Attacks" probably are against the TOS, and I think the mods do a good job in regulating what is an attack and what is not. I take plenty of stuff lying down. Go read some of my posts. I think the function of the way the US govt uses the military is absolutely deploring. I think anyone that picks up a gun and kills another human being is a murderer, regardless of whether or not a government such as ours is requiring folks to do so in over a zillion countries. Yes, I believe anyone in the military that has killed another human being is a murderer and will be answering to the man upstairs one day... thus the reason the military is made up of mainly folks who wouldn't afford the opporunity to get a college degree without it. i.e. I don't have any friends that are chomping at the bit to go kill someone or go get killed. For a govt to ask people to do so is an outrage. Then again, they get paid for it so I have no compassion over any military person asking for any sort of benefits. It's a job, they get paid... no other benefits should be extended at the taxpayer expense. You don't think I hear flack about that? I hear it all the time, but it comes with having the views that I have. I can have an educated conversation with someone with comments going both ways. Occasionally, actually more than occasionally, I see posts that are completely outraged with my views and I'm told what an idiot I am, etc. I don't get my panties wad up in a bunch over it. I read and move on.

Regarding the comments of "Read the guides," that is what folks are supposed to say. If the info has already been posted, the only way a newbie will learn is by learning to use the search function. Does that comment need to be made on every post? Of course not. But the posts that are asked over and over and over and that are as basic as "How do go through the K-1 process or what do I need to send to start the K-1 process," deserve an answer of Read the Guides.

I do understand, absolutely. But as you stated, I can say whatever I want as well and if someone is being a jerk, I have every right to say so. But there is also no reason why anyone should make comments to try to make someone else feel stupid. I don't understand that. Everyone deserves respect and SOMETIMES, it is clearly not given here. Everyone has a right to state their opinion or facts but to attack someone in a demeaning manner is just not necessary. I'm sure if you were belittled, you wouldn't exactly take it lying down, would you? Despite another poster's comments, while this site is here so people can get facts, it is here for support as well. We're all going through the same process so why is it so hard for some people to remember that and simply be supportive? I don't think anyone is asking for people to hold their hand, just trying to get helpful advice. And frankly, some people may not know how to look for the information elsewhere so a comment like "read the guides" isn't helpful. And some people, like me, may read the guides and just want confirmation to back that up. My fiance and I were given VERY wrong information from USCIS that may have gotten him banned had we followed through with their advice so we posed the question here and got the CORRECT information. So all I'm saying is that maybe some of the more rude people could either just state the facts or not say anything at all. That was my only point. No reason for anyone to be rude or belittling to anyone else. Understand?

Edited September 28, 2011 by Ready to do it

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Weighing in here based upon my own experiences as a moderator . . .

Yes, there are a lot of people who respond to questions they have read many times or people who are new or people whose comprehension isn't at their level with rude, dismissive and condescending comments. It does happen and it happens regularly.

Where this discussion here is starting to 'heat' up is involving a difference in understanding. Some are saying that it is alright to straighten out those who have misunderstandings, are asking 'noobie' questions or who obviously haven't done any sort of research in whatever way you feel is appropriate. Others are saying it doesn't cost anything to respond to those types of situations politely without becoming sarcastic or impatient or rude.

It is appropriate to provide the right information even if it isn't what someone wants to hear. It is appropriate to direct someone to resources that can provide them with information; it is appropriate to let someone else know that their choice of actions isn't the best - or even legal - approach. It is not appropriate to be rude, condescending or sarcastic when doing so. It is not 'what' is being said that is the problem - it is 'how' it is being said.

Visa Journey is supposed to be a supportive environment. Support comes in many different ways and people require different degrees and types of support. For some, just having access to the information resources is all of the 'support' they need. Others need to 'hold hands' as they manouver through paperwork they have never faced before in their lives. If you don't need the type of support someone else does, you still don't have the right to tell them they shouldn't be 'needy'. Count yourself lucky that you have the personal resources and experiences that allow you to do this more independently. Not everyone does - and that holds true regardless of education, culture, ethnicity, age and gender. There is no one size fits all.

There are always compassionate and caring ways to inform someone that they have got something wrong, that the processes involved are emotionally demanding and draining, that their attitude isn't helping them, etc. Attacking or insulting someone does not help them in anyway - all it does is give the poster a sense of selfish gratification that 'they 'got' something over on someone else. This isn't a competition nor is it a race. This is a life's journey that some of us are taking and each journey is as unique as the individuals involved. That alone deserves your respect, if not your compassion.

So, I will reiterate the advice/warning I often leave in threads that have been reported for inappropriate comments as well as TOS violating comments: If you are not able to respond in a way that is supportive, constructive and useful to the OP, then please do not respond at all. It only takes a conscious decision to be supportive and a little bit of careful forethought in choosing words to change a rude and unhelpful comment into a supportive and helpful one while providing the same information or advice.

Edited September 28, 2011 by Kathryn41

[KrisandJennie 35]

Weighing in here based upon my own experiences as a moderator . . .

Yes, there are a lot of people who respond to questions they have read many times or people who are new or people whose comprehension isn't at their level with rude, dismissive and condescending comments. It does happen and it happens regularly.

Where this discussion here is starting to 'heat' up is involving a difference in understanding. Some are saying that it is alright to straighten out those who have misunderstandings, are asking 'noobie' questions or who obviously haven't done any sort of research in whatever way you feel is appropriate. Others are saying it doesn't cost anything to respond to those types of situations politely without becoming sarcastic or impatient or rude.

It is appropriate to provide the right information even if it isn't what someone wants to hear. It is appropriate to direct someone to resources that can provide them with information; it is appropriate to let someone else know that their choice of actions isn't the best - or even legal - approach. It is not appropriate to be rude, condescending or sarcastic when doing so. It is not 'what' is being said that is the problem - it is 'how' it is being said.

Visa Journey is supposed to be a supportive environment. Support comes in many different ways and people require different degrees and types of support. For some, just having access to the information resources is all of the 'support' they need. Others need to 'hold hands' as they manouver through paperwork they have never faced before in their lives. If you don't need the type of support someone else does, you still don't have the right to tell them they shouldn't be 'needy'. Count yourself lucky that you have the personal resources and experiences that allow you to do this more independently. Not everyone does - and that holds true regardless of education, culture, ethnicity, age and gender. There is no one size fits all.

There are always compassionate and caring ways to inform someone that they have got something wrong, that the processes involved are emotionally demanding and draining, that their attitude isn't helping them, etc. Attacking or insulting someone does not help them in anyway - all it does is give the poster a sense of selfish gratification that 'they 'got' something over on someone else. This isn't a competition nor is it a race. This is a life's journey that some of us are taking and each journey is as unique as the individuals involved. That alone deserves your respect, if not your compassion.

So, I will reiterate the advice/warning I often leave in threads that have been reported for inappropriate comments as well as TOS violating comments: If you are not able to respond in a way that is supportive, constructive and useful to the OP, then please do not respond at all. It only takes a conscious decision to be supportive and a little bit of careful forethought in choosing words to change a rude and unhelpful comment into a supportive and helpful one while providing the same information or advice.

Thank you. That was all I was trying to say. People can get their point across without being rude. Thanks again.

[TiklingGuy 211]

I think "attacks" as you have put it are few and far between. "Attacks" probably are against the TOS, and I think the mods do a good job in regulating what is an attack and what is not. I take plenty of stuff lying down. Go read some of my posts. I think the function of the way the US govt uses the military is absolutely deploring. I think anyone that picks up a gun and kills another human being is a murderer, regardless of whether or not a government such as ours is requiring folks to do so in over a zillion countries. Yes, I believe anyone in the military that has killed another human being is a murderer and will be answering to the man upstairs one day... thus the reason the military is made up of mainly folks who wouldn't afford the opporunity to get a college degree without it. i.e. I don't have any friends that are chomping at the bit to go kill someone or go get killed. For a govt to ask people to do so is an outrage. Then again, they get paid for it so I have no compassion over any military person asking for any sort of benefits. It's a job, they get paid... no other benefits should be extended at the taxpayer expense. You don't think I hear flack about that? I hear it all the time, but it comes with having the views that I have. I can have an educated conversation with someone with comments going both ways. Occasionally, actually more than occasionally, I see posts that are completely outraged with my views and I'm told what an idiot I am, etc. I don't get my panties wad up in a bunch over it. I read and move on.

Regarding the comments of "Read the guides," that is what folks are supposed to say. If the info has already been posted, the only way a newbie will learn is by learning to use the search function. Does that comment need to be made on every post? Of course not. But the posts that are asked over and over and over and that are as basic as "How do go through the K-1 process or what do I need to send to start the K-1 process," deserve an answer of Read the Guides.

So if a Marine kills an enemy who is trying to steal your freedom and way of life, he is a Murderer? Wow!! Damn all those baby killers huh!!! I really wish you had even a fraction of a clue what sacrifices were made in order for you to even have the freedom to open your trap and speak.

[Robert&Karen 264]

Anyone who kills another is a murderer? Even if a gun is pointed at you, you would rather accept your fate and die than defend yourself?

[kennym 275]

So if a Marine kills an enemy who is trying to steal your freedom and way of life, he is a Murderer? Wow!! Damn all those baby killers huh!!! I really wish you had even a fraction of a clue what sacrifices were made in order for you to even have the freedom to open your trap and speak.

Edited September 28, 2011 by kennym

[kennym 275]

I think "attacks" as you have put it are few and far between. "Attacks" probably are against the TOS, and I think the mods do a good job in regulating what is an attack and what is not. I take plenty of stuff lying down. Go read some of my posts. I think the function of the way the US govt uses the military is absolutely deploring. I think anyone that picks up a gun and kills another human being is a murderer, regardless of whether or not a government such as ours is requiring folks to do so in over a zillion countries. Yes, I believe anyone in the military that has killed another human being is a murderer and will be answering to the man upstairs one day... thus the reason the military is made up of mainly folks who wouldn't afford the opporunity to get a college degree without it. i.e. I don't have any friends that are chomping at the bit to go kill someone or go get killed. For a govt to ask people to do so is an outrage. Then again, they get paid for it so I have no compassion over any military person asking for any sort of benefits. It's a job, they get paid... no other benefits should be extended at the taxpayer expense. You don't think I hear flack about that? I hear it all the time, but it comes with having the views that I have. I can have an educated conversation with someone with comments going both ways. Occasionally, actually more than occasionally, I see posts that are completely outraged with my views and I'm told what an idiot I am, etc. I don't get my panties wad up in a bunch over it. I read and move on.

Regarding the comments of "Read the guides," that is what folks are supposed to say. If the info has already been posted, the only way a newbie will learn is by learning to use the search function. Does that comment need to be made on every post? Of course not. But the posts that are asked over and over and over and that are as basic as "How do go through the K-1 process or what do I need to send to start the K-1 process," deserve an answer of Read the Guides.

Quiet extreme view for someone who benefits from the freedoms that others have fought for...

Thankfully we have plenty of brave souls fighting for our freedom and our country's security..

I do however, agree with some of the comments you made.. Not sure where these other comments (regarding military and Murder) came from what they have to do with the subject, if anything other than BS ... Very odd.. But thankfully, in this country, people have fought and died for your right to make such ridiculous comments..

Very perplexing...

-50 points

Edited September 28, 2011 by kennym

[Ready to do it 101]

Absolutely!

Anyone who kills another is a murderer? Even if a gun is pointed at you, you would rather accept your fate and die than defend yourself?