Israeli census

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Wonder what the census would have looked at if the Jews hadn't evicted and would not allow the natives back to their homes and land.

Sounds like you know about the nifkadim nohahim, like me.

[luckytxn 2,265]

Sounds like you know about the nifkadim nohahim, like me.

May have read about it. Or was it the history channel?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I don't think I've ever seen the term used in popular media

May have read about it. Or was it the history channel?

[luckytxn 2,265]

I don't think I've ever seen the term used in popular media

Neither have I. Must have read it somewhere then.

Never will hear it in the popular media.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

...the novel citizenship category of "present absentees" (nifkadim nohahim), persons present at the time but considered absent for the purpose of the law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_land_and_property_laws#The_.27Absentees_Property_Law.27

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Thanks for posting the link. Here's another useful link.

My family is nifkadim nohahim. Our property was taken for the express purpose of bringing in and settling Jewish immigrants. When the port city of Haifa, where several family members lived, was taken in battle by the Haganah, the property and homes of all the British and Arab residents, were seized and the dispossessed forced to leave the city. The port of Haifa was was already within the boundaries of the proposed state of Israel, but, in order to expel the inhabitants, the city was invaded.

Taking the port and the surrounding properties was essential to the Zionist plan to import hundreds of thousands more foreign Jews by ship to the new state. The stolen real estate from the internally displaced Arabs was given to new settlers. No financial remuneration was offered to us for our property or possessions. In 1951, this practice was codified and the internally displaced Arabs were given limited Israeli citizenship; property rights were denied to them.

Apartheid was codified and hollow claims of equality and democracy continued to be issued by the Israeli government. I'll bet that most Israelis aren't aware of this history, which still excuses discrimination against Arab citizens in housing and property transactions today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_land_and_property_laws#The_.27Absentees_Property_Law.27

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Thanks for posting the link. Here's another useful link.

My family is nifkadim nohahim. Our property was taken for the express purpose of bringing in and settling Jewish immigrants. When the port city of Haifa, where several family members lived, was taken in battle by the Haganah, the property and homes of all the British and Arab residents, were seized and the dispossessed forced to leave the city. The port of Haifa was was already within the boundaries of the proposed state of Israel, but, in order to expel the inhabitants, the city was invaded.

Taking the port and the surrounding properties was essential to the Zionist plan to import hundreds of thousands more foreign Jews by ship to the new state. The stolen real estate from the internally displaced Arabs was given to new settlers. No financial remuneration was offered to us for our property or possessions. In 1951, this practice was codified and the internally displaced Arabs were given limited Israeli citizenship; property rights were denied to them.

Apartheid was codified and hollow claims of equality and democracy continued to be issued by the Israeli government. I'll bet that most Israelis aren't aware of this history, which still excuses discrimination against Arab citizens in housing and property transactions today.

I watched an interesting panel last night on C-SPAN2. While the conclusions tended be be more Pro-Israeli, one panelist did offer an interesting observation: While almost all General Assembly resolutions are overwhelmingly reaffirmed annually, they all being are vetoed by a single vote in the Security Council.

ETA: He did offer another observation: The US tends to throw its friends under the bus, from the Shah of Iran, to the President of Egypt.

How close did Obama come to doing the same thing 18 months ago, and should Israel be worried?

Edited September 28, 2011 by Crusty Old Perv

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Now for the rest:

The ongoing settlement movement is indeed a dagger directed at the heart of the 2 state solution. I oppose the settler movement and the Israeli government stance that perpetuate this policy. I also know full well that hardliners on the Palestinian side, those who vow ongoing hostility to Israel regardless of any territorial compromise, have no interest in a two state solution either. They are a every bit as much a cancer eating away at the prospects of a two state solution.

Being a supporter of a two-state solution is a lonely place to stand. There are nothing but hard line views on all sides and dim prospects for the hard compromises needed for a lasting permanent solution. Nonetheless, I stand in that place, calling for reason, for compromise, for recognition of the legitimate national goals of TWO peoples, the legitimate territorial demands of TWO peoples, and a call for the end to violence and bloodshed.

In all of your diatribes I have yet to hear you speak for this center, for compromise, for acknowledgment of the legitimate rights of BOTH peoples, and condemnation of the wrongs committed by extremists no matter their stake in the dispute. You speak for only one side, you attack only one side, you offer no solutions, you have no interest in a peaceful outcome for all in the region. The only goal that matters to you is a triumphant victory of Palestinian nationalism at the expense of any other aspiration of any other stakeholder. As you wish. You and others like you perpetuate the conflict. There are Palestinians who really quest for peace and reconciliation. They are few, much fewer than are needed to turn the tide, but they exist. You are not one of them.

I don’t think you pay very close attention to what I actually write because you can’t even paraphrase my posts accurately.

Anyway, talk about a diatribe. Here you come with yet another self-aggrandizing, self-righteous promo for yourself about how incredibly reasonable your own opinion is - while someone who doesn’t happen to agree with you is the most outrageously unreasonable, insufferable trouble-maker that anyone could imagine.

In post after post, you personally attack me, railing that I am some kind of extremist or someone who doesn’t want “peace and reconciliation,” and on and on and on with your incessant emo-raging. All because I have the temerity to cite international law, link historical and official documents in response to hasbara and other erroneous claims - and most of all because I reject the mythology that a gang of mostly illegal immigrant European Jews had the right to forcibly wrest Palestine from its native inhabitants, driving most of them out and preventing them from returning to their homes, so that foreign Jews could seize their property and replace them with an artificially-created ethnocracy.

So again, I really don't give a rat’s azz what you think of me (and much less what you think of yourself.)

The international community has repeatedly condemned, censured, deplored and criticized Israel’s occupation and settlements for a reason - not because they’re one-sided or have some irrational hatred of Jews, but because what Israel is doing is illegal and is also the direct cause for the continuation of the conflict.

The PA since Arafat has repeatedly agreed to officially cede any claim to the additional territory that Israel seized in 1947-1949 (in violation of international law) in return for a fully sovereign Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza on the pre-1967 armistice lines. It has also agreed to mutually-negotiated minor adjustments to that border. This has been the basis of every agreement signed between the two parties since 1993.

This is a huge concession. This is the land the Palestinians have already agreed to give up for peace (shown in pink):

But that’s still not enough for Israel. It wants more:

The fact is: the Israeli government doesn’t want a 2-state solution - it wants as much Palestinian land as it can grab with as few native inhabitants on it as possible - and it wants to make a Palestinian state impossible. Netanyahu was even recorded on video bragging openly about how he flim-flammed the U.S. government in order to cheat the Oslo agreement (in Hebrew; if you don't see English subtitles, click CC in the lower right corner):

His latest game is to insist on “no preconditions” - which is a transparent ploy to insist on his precondition of completely trashing all previous agreements (after the PA upheld its end of the bargain) so that Israel might continue expanding the settlements and moving more and more of its population onto Palestinian land, while delaying and stalling any “final agreement” until there is no Palestine left to negotiate over. Netanyahu and his ideologues obviously believe that Israel is entitled to rule over the Palestinian people forever - even though the only alternatives to a 2-state solution are either 1.) more ethnic cleansing, 2.) a bi-national single-state democracy, or 3.) permanent Apartheid.

But keep venting your rage at me, even though it’s the Israeli government that has turned the entire “peace process” into a complete fraud and the whole world knows it - as was acknowledged in glaring clarity at the U.N. last week as Abbas got huge cheers and a standing ovation, while Netanyahu could only get applause from his own advisors and a small group of Jewish activists.

Edited September 30, 2011 by wife_of_mahmoud

[Sofiyya 1,687]

For some, it's all about ego. I don't think scandal knows enough about the subject to stick to it rather than complain about it and anyone who disagrees with him.

Now for the rest:

I don’t think you pay very close attention to what I actually write because you can’t even paraphrase my posts accurately.

Anyway, talk about a diatribe. Here you come with yet another self-aggrandizing, self-righteous promo for yourself about how incredibly reasonable your own opinion is - while someone who doesn’t happen to agree with you is the most outrageously unreasonable, insufferable trouble-maker that anyone could imagine.

In post after post, you personally attack me, railing that I am some kind of extremist or someone who doesn’t want “peace and reconciliation,” and on and on and on with your incessant emo-raging. All because I have the temerity to cite international law, link historical and official documents in response to hasbara and other erroneous claims - and most of all because I reject the mythology that a gang of mostly illegal immigrant European Jews had the right to forcibly wrest Palestine from its native inhabitants, driving most of them out and preventing them from returning to their homes, so that foreign Jews could seize their property and replace them with an artificially-created ethnocracy.

So again, I really don't give a rat’s azz what you think of me (and much less what you think of yourself.)

The international community has repeatedly condemned, censured, deplored and criticized Israel’s occupation and settlements for a reason - not because they’re one-sided or have some irrational hatred of Jews, but because what Israel is doing is illegal and is also the direct cause for the continuation of the conflict.

The PA since Arafat has repeatedly agreed to officially cede any claim to the additional territory that Israel seized in 1947-1949 (in violation of international law) in return for a fully sovereign Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza on the pre-1967 armistice lines. It has also agreed to mutually-negotiated minor adjustments to that border. This has been the basis of every agreement signed between the two parties since 1993.

This is a huge concession. This is the land the Palestinians have already agreed to give up for peace (shown in pink):

But that’s still not enough for Israel. It wants more:

The fact is: the Israeli government doesn’t want a 2-state solution - it wants as much Palestinian land as it can grab with as few native inhabitants on it as possible - and it wants to make a Palestinian state impossible. Netanyahu was even recorded on video bragging openly about how he flim-flammed the U.S. government in order to cheat the Oslo agreement (in Hebrew; if you don't see English subtitles, click CC in the lower right corner):

His latest game is to insist on “no preconditions” - which is a transparent ploy to insist on his precondition of completely trashing all previous agreements (after the PA upheld its end of the bargain) so that Israel might continue expanding the settlements and moving more and more of its population onto Palestinian land, while delaying and stalling any “final agreement” until there is no Palestine left to negotiate over. Netanyahu and his ideologues obviously believe that Israel is entitled to rule over the Palestinian people forever - even though the only alternatives to a 2-state solution are either 1.) more ethnic cleansing, 2.) a bi-national single-state democracy, or 3.) permanent Apartheid.

But keep venting your rage at me, even though it’s the Israeli government that has turned the entire “peace process” into a complete fraud and the whole world knows it - as was acknowledged in glaring clarity at the U.N. last week as Abbas got huge cheers and a standing ovation, while Netanyahu could only get applause from his own advisors and a small group of Jewish activists.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I know what you're referring to; you and I were both very bad back then, and I won't repeat it. We've moved past that, insha'allah. WoM has heart, smarts, tenaciousness and a true passion for our cause. She's an honorary Palestinian, imo. But, no, I'm usually the lonely Arab on this little planet.

I appreciate that, Sofiyya

For the umpteenth time everybody, I'm an American, born and raised, not of any Arab heritage that I know of (except there are some Spaniards wayyyyy back on the family tree who we suspect were Moors due to their names )

My husband is Palestinian, born and raised in the West Bank. I have been there many times, both before and after knowing him - in fact, I met him there. Not that I need to post a resume.