Surprise visits by immigration.

[TBoneTX 45,289]

The previous poster's assumption is not "simple." If the agents can't gain access to the premises, they're where they started -- they lack the same information that they showed up to try to gain. If lack of access to the dwelling is enough for "denial," then they would have denied the case without going to the hassle of showing up in the first place.

It's one thing to assist law-enforcement officers (LEOs) or Federal agents (Feds) in catching criminals by giving information, but watch out when they start asking about your activities. If a LEO or a Fed asks to search your property, all sorts of warning bells should go off. There is never any real advantage to a consented search. Always, always refuse consent.

"Negotiating" with LEOs or Feds during an unexpected contact is fruitless. Common sense tells you that asking to verify their identities while they wait outside your door won't pan out. Their supervisor will not be on duty at 4 a.m. or 6 a.m., and probably not at 7 a.m., either. You have the utter right to not answer the door at all, or to say matter-of-factly through the closed door "We don't open the door for anyone at this hour," or "We don't open the door for anyone at this hour. Please leave your business card in the door and we'll be in touch during business hours."

"Why not let me search if you're innocent and have nothing to hide?" a LEO or Fed may taunt. Repeat: "It's nothing personal, sir; we don't open the door for anyone at this hour."

The powers of a LEO or a Fed at this stage are nearly zero. If you disengage, there's nothing that he can do without the required "reasonable articulable suspicion" for detention or "probable cause" for arrest. By voluntarily talking, or (far worse) consenting to a search, you might somehow give the LEO or Fed grounds for detention, arrest, or denial of a benefit -- even though you're completely innocent of any crime. This goes against the peculiarly American grain of innocent openness, but you absolutely must learn when and how to shut up! You could "confess" to something you had no idea was a crime -- or the agents can find something in "plain view" that they can use to concoct your guilt.

LEOs and Feds are allowed to lie to you. Their expressed wish to enter your home could be for what they say or absolutely anything else.

There's NO advantage to answering questions about yourself during a contact like this. Ever. Offer/answer nothing -- ever! Even though the LEO or Fed can ask you anything, you do NOT have to answer. Disengage. LEOs and Feds are used to roll-over wimps or mouthy smartasses. Being polite and taking charge goes a long way. This is the best policy during any such contact.

[Robert&Karen 264]

TBoneTX, if feds show up for criminal matter they will likely have a warrant, so that point is moot. But if an investigator needs to be sure the immigrant lives where reported, what better that a surprise check? What good would it do to come back in 24 hours when in that time you could have set the pace up to look perfect?

What about my fiance's embassy interview, when they asked her whee I worked, what my middle name is, and what color my eyes are? he could easily refused to answer on the basis that the answers could be used against her. And if she was lying, the answers would indeed be used against her to deny the visa.

I think the difference is that WE contacted THEM first by completing the I-129f. The feds would never know I even existed had it not been for me asking of the government. Think of all the questions you answered. Where did you meet? Do you plan to get married? When? Will you have the funds to support the new family size?And on and on we go. They have already asked a hundred questions which we run around in a flurry to answer to their satisfaction. If they send me an RFE to reply to or knock at my door to get the same evidence, well it is all the same to me.

If they want something from me, they get it, since it is I who asked them for help in the first place.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

Amen.

If that works for you, do it!

But if it backfires, please don't complain to us.

[newlyweds2010 208]

TBoneTX, if feds show up for criminal matter they will likely have a warrant, so that point is moot. But if an investigator needs to be sure the immigrant lives where reported, what better that a surprise check? What good would it do to come back in 24 hours when in that time you could have set the pace up to look perfect?

What about my fiance's embassy interview, when they asked her whee I worked, what my middle name is, and what color my eyes are? he could easily refused to answer on the basis that the answers could be used against her. And if she was lying, the answers would indeed be used against her to deny the visa.

I think the difference is that WE contacted THEM first by completing the I-129f. The feds would never know I even existed had it not been for me asking of the government. Think of all the questions you answered. Where did you meet? Do you plan to get married? When? Will you have the funds to support the new family size?And on and on we go. They have already asked a hundred questions which we run around in a flurry to answer to their satisfaction. If they send me an RFE to reply to or knock at my door to get the same evidence, well it is all the same to me.

If they want something from me, they get it, since it is I who asked them for help in the first place.

Thank you

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

TBone is correct. If you give any law enforcement officer permission to enter and search your home then they can use anything they find against you, even if it has nothing to do with the primary reason they came. On the other hand, if they get a warrant then they can only look specifically for what is listed on the warrant, and can't use anything unrelated against you.

In practical terms, that means if they had a warrant to search your home for evidence of cohabitation then it would state specifically what they're allowed to look for. Laundry, closets, bathroom cabinets, etc. It would likely NOT allow them to look through your personal files or browse through your computer. On the other hand, if you consent to search then they can look at anything they want. Play a little online poker? You're busted. Got pics of your kids playing in the bathtub naked? Busted. Keep a little "wacky tobacky" for special occasions? Busted again.

Everyone has to decide for themselves how much they're willing to put up with from the US government. Where you choose to set the bar determines at what point you stop cooperating and start fighting back. I decided before I sent the fiancee visa petition how far I would allow things to go. I and my wife would refuse to answer any overly embarrassing or demeaning questions. I and my wife would refuse to submit to a Stokes interview. I and my wife would refuse to submit to a home inspection. I can live with an immigration benefit being denied because we refuse to cooperate. If they cross the line and the visa is refused then I would file again, and repeat until we eventually got the visa. If the green card was denied without prejudice then I'd file again. If it was denied with prejudice then I'd take them to court. You can't get around the law, but the law doesn't specifically give them the authority to use these tactics, and the law doesn't require you to submit to them. Those tactics are a matter of policy, and policy can be challenged in court.

You should also realize that if they come to your home then your case is already in serious trouble. If you allow them to search then it's far from guaranteed that they'll change their minds and decide to approve the green card regardless of what they find, and you're taking a risk that they'll find a reason to deny you anyway, or worse - bring criminal charges against you. They are not your friends, and they are not trying to help you. Don't give up your rights because you're afraid they'll deny a benefit you asked for. Stand your ground. If they deny you then appeal. If that fails then take them to court.

[newlyweds2010 208]

TBone is correct. If you give any law enforcement officer permission to enter and search your home then they can use anything they find against you, even if it has nothing to do with the primary reason they came. On the other hand, if they get a warrant then they can only look specifically for what is listed on the warrant, and can't use anything unrelated against you.

In practical terms, that means if they had a warrant to search your home for evidence of cohabitation then it would state specifically what they're allowed to look for. Laundry, closets, bathroom cabinets, etc. It would likely NOT allow them to look through your personal files or browse through your computer. On the other hand, if you consent to search then they can look at anything they want. Play a little online poker? You're busted. Got pics of your kids playing in the bathtub naked? Busted. Keep a little "wacky tobacky" for special occasions? Busted again.

Everyone has to decide for themselves how much they're willing to put up with from the US government. Where you choose to set the bar determines at what point you stop cooperating and start fighting back. I decided before I sent the fiancee visa petition how far I would allow things to go. I and my wife would refuse to answer any overly embarrassing or demeaning questions. I and my wife would refuse to submit to a Stokes interview. I and my wife would refuse to submit to a home inspection. I can live with an immigration benefit being denied because we refuse to cooperate. If they cross the line and the visa is refused then I would file again, and repeat until we eventually got the visa. If the green card was denied without prejudice then I'd file again. If it was denied with prejudice then I'd take them to court. You can't get around the law, but the law doesn't specifically give them the authority to use these tactics, and the law doesn't require you to submit to them. Those tactics are a matter of policy, and policy can be challenged in court.

You should also realize that if they come to your home then your case is already in serious trouble. If you allow them to search then it's far from guaranteed that they'll change their minds and decide to approve the green card regardless of what they find, and you're taking a risk that they'll find a reason to deny you anyway, or worse - bring criminal charges against you. They are not your friends, and they are not trying to help you. Don't give up your rights because you're afraid they'll deny a benefit you asked for. Stand your ground. If they deny you then appeal. If that fails then take them to court.

I don't know, I think that there is a certain difference between an investigation for criminal activity, and an investigation to verify the legitimacy of the statements made by a person to request that the Government grants him or her a benefit. Then, of course, if someone grows weed in the living room or hosts dog fights in the backyard, he or she better not let anybody in, be it the FBI or even the building manager.

[TBoneTX 45,289]

I don't know, I think that there is a certain difference between an investigation for criminal activity, and an investigation to verify the legitimacy of the statements made by a person to request that the Government grants him or her a benefit. Then, of course, if someone grows weed in the living room or hosts dog fights in the backyard, he or she better not let anybody in, be it the FBI or even the building manager.

The point is that even if you're not growing weed or hosting dogfights, you don't know WHAT they're going to find, or what they'll claim that they found. Federal agents and LEOs who request entry to your premises are NOT your friends, are NOT working on your behalf, and DON'T have to tell you the truth.

[Robert&Karen 264]

The point is that even if you're not growing weed or hosting dogfights, you don't know WHAT they're going to find, or what they'll claim that they found. Federal agents and LEOs who request entry to your premises are NOT your friends, are NOT working on your behalf, and DON'T have to tell you the truth.

Your GC case worker may have sent the investigator out to verify things. They report back with their findings. if they report "Sponsor would not let me in the house, unable to verify Beneficiary's location." Then bang, no GC.

[TBoneTX 45,289]

Your GC case worker may have sent the investigator out to verify things.

You said it yourself: "may." Your hopeful speculation is only part of the specter of possibilities. You don't, can't, and won't know what their motive is, regardless of what you'd like to think or what they say to think. It isn't guaranteed that their interests and yours will match. Accordingly, following one of the several previously suggested deflective techniques is almost certainly more prudent than ever letting any Fed or LEO into your house.

Equally feasible is that once you let them in, they'll immediately separate you and subject you to an unexpected Stokes interview.

As was stated above, do as you wish in such a situation, but don't come back here whining if you courted your own disaster.

[SuperDuper! 230]

They are just doing spot checks. If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. Listen carefully, answer their questions courteously, and send them on their way. You will pass their muster, and get a gold star in your file.

[newlyweds2010 208]

maybe it would be interesting to read the testimony of VJ members who denied entry and sent them to f. themselves, and still got approved. If such a thing happened, then I will change my mind.

[newlyweds2010 208]

The point is that even if you're not growing weed or hosting dogfights, you don't know WHAT they're going to find, or what they'll claim that they found. Federal agents and LEOs who request entry to your premises are NOT your friends, are NOT working on your behalf, and DON'T have to tell you the truth.

What I am saying is: YOU applied to obtain a benefit from the US government, YOU made certain statements on which the decision whether this benefit should be given to you or not is based, YOU have not proven with enough certainty that your request is legit, and when they come to check because they have doubts about the veracity of your statements, YOU send them away. what do you think they should think?

[TBoneTX 45,289]

No one has refuted this --

You should also realize that if they come to your home then your case is already in serious trouble. If you allow them to search then it's far from guaranteed that they'll change their minds and decide to approve the green card regardless of what they find, and you're taking a risk that they'll find a reason to deny you anyway, or worse - bring criminal charges against you. They are not your friends, and they are not trying to help you. Don't give up your rights because you're afraid they'll deny a benefit you asked for. Stand your ground. If they deny you then appeal. If that fails then take them to court.

-- except with very fervent wishful thinking. Takers, anyone?

[ryna 132]

For an analogy, you want in your son's room to see what he is up to. He has the door locked and says you have to accuse him of something, and then only look for that one thing. Yea right! You walk, in when you darned well please and look all over the place. You get mad if he has pot or porn, but care very little if he has unfinished homework, in relation. You are not out to "get" him, you want to make sure everything is on the up and up."

Bad analogy.

He is your minor child and living within your property. He has no Constitutional protections from YOU.

I, a U.S. Citizen, DO however have constitutional protections against unannounced visits from Federal (State and local, for that matter) agents as I am neither on parole nor probation for having been convicted of a crime.

Maybe it's a question of country of origin and/or length of time one has lived in the U.S., but I can't believe that anyone would be so quick to allow themselves to be treated like a convicted criminal in allowing the government to violate the sanctity of your home because it's what "they" want.

Edited September 25, 2011 by ryna

[DaveE 178]

For an analogy, you want in your son's room to see what he is up to. He has the door locked and says you have to accuse him of something, and then only look for that one thing. Yea right! You walk, in when you darned well please and look all over the place. You get mad if he has pot or porn, but care very little if he has unfinished homework, in relation. You are not out to "get" him, you want to make sure everything is on the up and up."

Bad analogy.

He is your minor child and living within your property. He has no Constitutional protections from YOU.

I, a U.S. Citizen, DO however have constitutional protections against unannounced visits from Federal (State and local, for that matter) agents as I am neither on parole nor probation for having been convicted of a crime.

Maybe it's a question of country of origin and/or length of time one has lived in the U.S., but I can't believe that anyone would be so quick to allow themselves to be treated like a convicted criminal in allowing the government to violate the sanctity of your home because it's what "they" want.

Lets see. I was born in the United States. I am a thirty year military veteran; two tours in Vietnam, one gulf war, and now retired, so I don't think it is a question of origin.

When you filled out the 129F or I485, the instructions on both forms tell you what you can expect. "The Department of Homeland Security has right to verify any information you submit to establish eligiblity for the immigration benefits you are seeking at any time. Our legal right to verify this information is in 8 U.S.C 1103, 1155, 1184, and 8 CFR parts 103, 204, 205, and 214." To not quote the entire thing, here is the applicable sentence. " Agency verification methods may include unannounced physical site inspections of residences and places of employment; and interviews".

So, they tell you up front they might do this. It should have been a topic of discussion between the couple before the process is started, Each couple should have decided up front how they would handle this eventuality.

Of course you have the absolute right to not let them in, or even talk to them.

However in my case they would be welcomed in. I refuse to treat my government like my enemy. If that time ever comes I will leave this country and and move with my wife to the Philippines. I live my life based on my experience. I have had home interviews many many times for security clearance issues, (and still do). I have also been interviewed by Defense Investigation Service at their office, and once in a coffee shop. I had a Federal Firearms Licence and the was inspected hundreds of times.

I am an avid 2nd amendment guy, but I don't concealed carry every day. Some days I choose not to exercise that right.

We have lots of DUI checkpoints here in Georgia. When stopped they always ask "have you been drinking today?" I have the right to not answer, but invariably I do. I choose not to exercise my right in that instance.

If USCIS knocked on my door. I would let them in and offer them coffee. I could tell them no, but I would attempt to facilitate their information gathering. WHY - because this is what my wife and decided prior to starting this process. Because I, or anyone else choose not to exercise their 4th amendment right in that instance does not make me less a citizen than you. We don't surrender anything. We have the ability to exercise that right at any time.

Bottom line is to make up your own mind. Be prepared the make the choice and live with the consequences. To call someone less of a citizen, or a smartass, or a wimp because their choice is not yours is silly, and in itself unamerican