Fact Check: Obama Says Rich Pay Lower Tax Rate Then Middle Class.

[slim 1,525]

Isn't that what the fair tax is? A 40% national sales tax?

If you make $50,000 a year you make $50,000 a year --- no taxes come out..

But for every $1 you spend 40 cents comes out*!!!

*I believe the rate is 34% but that doesn't include sales tax so I just call it 40%

That's one form of a fair tax.

Another is everyone would pay the same percentage of their income.

[mawilson 2,133]

That's gonna be tough. We're gonna have to bring in about $7,500 bucks per person so I'm looking at a $30,000 tax bill just for the feds.

A bit more than that ($11,666 per person) if we want to balance the budget this year.

[slim 1,525]

A bit more than that ($11,666 per person) if we want to balance the budget this year.

If you think about it, that's not really that much.

Until you consider that over 40 million people wouldn't pay squat.

[mawilson 2,133]

If you think about it, that's not really that much.

Until you consider that over 40 million people wouldn't pay squat.

I know! If every person in America paid $11,000 in taxes, we could raise almost 3.5 trillion dollars in tax revenue.

[slim 1,525]

I know! If every person in America paid $11,000 in taxes, we could raise almost 3.5 trillion dollars in tax revenue.

And that would balance the budget.

[PantomimeGoose 59]

In 2009, 14.3% of Americans were living below the poverty level. If you add to that the number of people who would not be able to survive on an income of $15,000-$30,000/year (I believe around 13 million households) if the government were to take the 'reasonable sum' of $11,000 per person, what you would have is a whole lot of starving rioters, who by the by would have no money to spend on the products and services that make executives rich.

[Golden Gate 530]

Not everyone is meant to do the same thing. What would we do with even more Subways? Aren't there enough? We all have our calling in life. I am a teacher. I am happy with what I make and what I get to do. However, I don't see why rich people are complaining when their taxes have reduced significantly over the years and they are still sitting pretty in this. To me, that smacks of greed and yes, if they want people to continue to buy their subs, there better be jobs for people to afford going to subway to eat. I don't go their often, because I can make a lot more at home for less. You can keep creating subways, but you have to have customers to buy your product. The reality is this. Where are the jobs that will give people a standard of living they can afford to buy a house? What I want to know is what happened to the jobs, if these people are supposedly creating them. As a society, how can we all live on jobs that pay minimum wage.

My two brothers and my sister bought a franchise. It's called Sona Medspa. Maybe you have heard of it. They ended up opting out of the franchise, because they had to pay too much back to the company, and made their medspa independent. Unfortunately, in this market, people couldn't afford to go get such services, because many people lost their jobs, their houses, and have no extra money. So, their business tanked, and my brother is still facing the music, because he tried to save the business by putting in his own money, so he can't declare bankruptcy. I am not sure that small business ventures are even going to work at this time. That is what the governor of Michigan is trying to encourage. How many small businesses actually survive and how many fail? How can a small business compete with a large one?

There is something truly fishy with this economy and to me, the tremendous gap in wealth between most of us and the few of us is telling.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Golden Gate

[Miss smarty pants 84]

if our poor people truly lived in rubbish bins I wouldn't be worried about them paying their fair share. What I don't like is PAYING those people to sit around smoking weed and reproducing all day.

[mawilson 2,133]

However, I don't see why rich people are complaining when their taxes have reduced significantly over the years and they are still sitting pretty in this.

The middle class had their taxes reduced significantly as well.

Rich people are complaining because somehow they are supposed to pay for everyone.

"Shared sacrifice" means EVERYONE paying more - the poor, the middle and, yes, the rich.

[Golden Gate 530]

The middle class had their taxes reduced significantly as well.

Rich people are complaining because somehow they are supposed to pay for everyone.

"Shared sacrifice" means EVERYONE paying more - the poor, the middle and, yes, the rich.

Yes, but how do you pay more tax when you only have enough money to pay rent, pay bills, eat at home and get to work? How does that person pay more taxes?

[mawilson 2,133]

Yes, but how do you pay more tax when you only have enough money to pay rent, pay bills, eat at home and get to work? How does that person pay more taxes?

How did they pay more taxes before the Bush tax cuts went into effect?

Whatever your bills are, you can always find a way to cut at least 10 percent.

Even the poorest of the poor have TVs and cell phones.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

How did they pay more taxes before the Bush tax cuts went into effect?

Whatever your bills are, you can always find a way to cut at least 10 percent.

Even the poorest of the poor have TVs and cell phones.

Despite the tax cuts, I've read the average income for the middle class has actually regressed nearly 7% in the last decade.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Sousuke

[PantomimeGoose 59]

Statistics or facts to the effect that "Whatever your bills are, you can always find a way to cut at least 10 percent"?

My favorite new GOP meme: "The poor are so frivolous with their flashy televisions and cell phones! Don't they know they're supposed to be suffering?" How does someone in this day and age get and maintain a job without having a phone of some kind? Not all cells are expensive high-tech gadgets, and most of the cost associated actually comes from "capitalist" companies locking you into a contract with draconian penalties for leaving it (as opposed to the more common pay-as-you-go schemes Europe favors). A number of people were actually sent into bankrupting overdraft when they attempted to leave DirectTV, after DirectTV enacted a small-print clause that automatically drained up to a thousand dollars from their bank accounts. DirectTV is now in a class action. AT&T is in a similar lawsuit for advertising one price for cell phone service and then charging twice that "just because". When people try to budget, do the right thing, and maybe stop a service if their budget changes, so-called capitalists are sure to seize the opportunity to kick them back down to the gutter they may well be trying to climb up out of. It is a little ridiculous to blame the poor for their poverty simply because it could be a little more abject than it is.

A great quote from Elizabeth Warren (S Mass):

"I hear all this, you know, 'Well, this is class warfare, this is whatever,'" Warren said. "No. There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own -- nobody.

"You built a factory out there? Good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police-forces and fire-forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory -- and hire someone to protect against this -- because of the work the rest of us did.

"Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea. God bless -- keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is, you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along."1

[slim 1,525]

In 2009, 14.3% of Americans were living below the poverty level. If you add to that the number of people who would not be able to survive on an income of $15,000-$30,000/year (I believe around 13 million households) if the government were to take the 'reasonable sum' of $11,000 per person, what you would have is a whole lot of starving rioters, who by the by would have no money to spend on the products and services that make executives rich.

Those "starving rioters" would figure it out.

The big reason some people are "poor" in this country is because they're paid to be that way. Stop paying them to be poor and they'll figure out how to get by on their own. As for actual starving rioters, there's a real simple cure for that as well. Feed 'em lead!

Not everyone is meant to do the same thing. What would we do with even more Subways? Aren't there enough? We all have our calling in life. I am a teacher. I am happy with what I make and what I get to do. However, I don't see why rich people are complaining when their taxes have reduced significantly over the years and they are still sitting pretty in this. To me, that smacks of greed and yes, if they want people to continue to buy their subs, there better be jobs for people to afford going to subway to eat. I don't go their often, because I can make a lot more at home for less. You can keep creating subways, but you have to have customers to buy your product. The reality is this. Where are the jobs that will give people a standard of living they can afford to buy a house? What I want to know is what happened to the jobs, if these people are supposedly creating them. As a society, how can we all live on jobs that pay minimum wage.

My two brothers and my sister bought a franchise. It's called Sona Medspa. Maybe you have heard of it. They ended up opting out of the franchise, because they had to pay too much back to the company, and made their medspa independent. Unfortunately, in this market, people couldn't afford to go get such services, because many people lost their jobs, their houses, and have no extra money. So, their business tanked, and my brother is still facing the music, because he tried to save the business by putting in his own money, so he can't declare bankruptcy. I am not sure that small business ventures are even going to work at this time. That is what the governor of Michigan is trying to encourage. How many small businesses actually survive and how many fail? How can a small business compete with a large one?

There is something truly fishy with this economy and to me, the tremendous gap in wealth between most of us and the few of us is telling.

Why do you feel that you're entitled to someone else's money?

Yes, but how do you pay more tax when you only have enough money to pay rent, pay bills, eat at home and get to work? How does that person pay more taxes?

Who cares.

If they're not making enough money to pay their "fair share" then they need to figure out how to do so. The problem is we make exceptions for people who can't figure it out and then penalize the ones who can because, for some reason, we feel like they should be sharing with the rest of us and "it's not fair" that they have all that money and we don't.

Statistics or facts to the effect that "Whatever your bills are, you can always find a way to cut at least 10 percent"?

My favorite new GOP meme: "The poor are so frivolous with their flashy televisions and cell phones! Don't they know they're supposed to be suffering?" How does someone in this day and age get and maintain a job without having a phone of some kind? Not all cells are expensive high-tech gadgets, and most of the cost associated actually comes from "capitalist" companies locking you into a contract with draconian penalties for leaving it (as opposed to the more common pay-as-you-go schemes Europe favors). A number of people were actually sent into bankrupting overdraft when they attempted to leave DirectTV, after DirectTV enacted a small-print clause that automatically drained up to a thousand dollars from their bank accounts. DirectTV is now in a class action. AT&T is in a similar lawsuit for advertising one price for cell phone service and then charging twice that "just because". When people try to budget, do the right thing, and maybe stop a service if their budget changes, so-called capitalists are sure to seize the opportunity to kick them back down to the gutter they may well be trying to climb up out of. It is a little ridiculous to blame the poor for their poverty simply because it could be a little more abject than it is.

A great quote from Elizabeth Warren (S Mass):

"I hear all this, you know, 'Well, this is class warfare, this is whatever,'" Warren said. "No. There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own -- nobody.

"You built a factory out there? Good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police-forces and fire-forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory -- and hire someone to protect against this -- because of the work the rest of us did.

"Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea. God bless -- keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is, you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along."1

You're not rich, are you?

[PantomimeGoose 59]

Can you provide a factual explanation of your claim that "the big reason that people are poor in this country is they're paid to be poor"? About 4.4 million Americans (1.4% of the total population) were receiving welfare in 2010, and about 40 million (11% of the population) were receiving food stamps. You really think that that small swathe of the population is what's dragging us down, and that it's their laziness that's doing it?

And why in heavens name do you think rioters would be eating your lead rather than the other way around? More pressingly, why do you think "massacre" is a better way to deal with poverty and riots than preventative economic measures?

"You're not rich" is not an argument. Try making one.