Damned if he does. Damned if he Doesn't.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

sad, but true.

-------

http://stompmud.com/2011/09/damned-if-he-does-damned-if-he-doesnt/

While we are staunch critics of Obama just like any other politician in Washington, this cartoon pretty much sums up the way everyone treats this Presiden; damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t.

President Obama can’t seem to win with Republicans of course, but even with his own party it’s a no win situation as well. He’s either not doing enough, or doing too little too late.

In a harsh and cynical political environment, it’s a wonder that anyone would want to be President this day and age. The criticism one faces in the office is often times in abundance and over the top. That’s not to say the President doesn’t deserve a lot of criticism. Let’s be honest; he deserves quite a bit. At the same time though, when a new policy or proposal comes to light, an informed citizen and voter will take time to read those proposals and see exactly where he is coming from. Only then can you make an appropriate decision on his actions. While his summary may irritate you, you never know what the actual legislation might bring and why it’s being put into place.

The point is: Give the President and members of congress hell, but only do it after you know what you’re giving them hell about. Yelling and screaming about something you don’t know about yet only makes you look like the fool you accuse them of being.

[Captain Oates 911]

Makes me yearn for the good old BBC.

What a load of guff

The British Parliamentary System is much better - you elect a semi dictator for 5 years and then kick him out at the end if you don't like it

The American system is not suitable for the modern world and everything is mired in inaction and bickering

It's no way to run a railroad

I am sick of it now and losing interest - Mr O has the finest words ever spoken - and can't do a damn thing. The opposition has the nastiest words since the Nazis and they cant do much either.

Result ? Nothing.

[mawilson 2,133]

Result ? Nothing.

Sometimes nothing is the best result.

[Captain Oates 911]

Sometimes nothing is the best result.

That is true - but 'nothing' would have meant we couldn't have gay marines and that would have been a tragedy

..and 'nothing' is no good to the unemployed

I always start from 'nothing' as the default position nowadays and follow that with 'the middle course' - and it seems to work

But when Aneurin Bevan took on the doctors and the drug companies and created the National Heath Service, only a massive battle could yield results.

Nothing of that scale is possible in the US - not since Medicare and Social Security was founded anyway.

No great social achievements are possible with the American form of government and they usually drag their heels into a tepid form of what other governments achieve

Examples ?

Abolition of Slavery - UK first, US followed

Votes for women - UK first, US followed

World war 1 and 2 - UK first, US followed

Gays in the military - UK first, US followed

State Pensions - UK first, US followed

Universal Heath Care ? UK first in 1947, US still agonizing over whether to let its citizens be bankrupted

Color integrated Army units ? UK never had segregated, US caught up after ww2

Capital Punishment ? Abolished in the UK 50 years ago - still under debate in the US. No European countries will extradite capital cases to the US because of it.

etc etc

The US needs a decisive form of government that will let it evolve at a faster pace instead of having to trail in the slipstream of the UK.

Edited September 21, 2011 by Alan the Red

[Obama 2012 1,714]

That is true - but 'nothing' would have meant we couldn't have gay marines and that would have been a tragedy

..and 'nothing' is no good to the unemployed

I always start from 'nothing' as the default position nowadays and follow that with 'the middle course' - and it seems to work

But when Aneurin Bevan took on the doctors and the drug companies and created the National Heath Service, only a massive battle could yield results.

Nothing of that scale is possible in the US - not since Medicare and Social Security was founded anyway.

No great social achievements are possible with the American form of government and they usually drag their heels into a tepid form of what other governments achieve

Examples ?

Abolition of Slavery - UK first, US followed

Votes for women - UK first, US followed

World war 1 and 2 - UK first, US followed

Gays in the military - UK first, US followed

State Pensions - UK first, US followed

Universal Heath Care ? UK first in 1947, US still agonizing over whether to let its citizens be bankrupted

Color integrated Army units ? UK never had segregated, US caught up after ww2

Capital Punishment ? Abolished in the UK 50 years ago - still under debate in the US. No European countries will extradite capital cases to the US because of it.

etc etc

The US needs a decisive form of government that will let it evolve at a faster pace instead of having to trail in the slipstream of the UK.

The US isn't the UK, nor should it be.

Your examples in the first part of your post are interesting because had 'nothing' been done to begin with, neither one of those things would be an issue.

[Captain Oates 911]

The US isn't the UK, nor should it be.

Your examples in the first part of your post are interesting because had 'nothing' been done to begin with, neither one of those things would be an issue.

If the US shouldn't be the UK, why do they keep changing societal laws to be the same as the UK ?

Do you disagree with any of the changes I listed above, and which ones would you repeal ?

Even the Fed Common law is the same as the UK - 'innocent until proved guilty beyond a reasonable doubt' etc etc etc

The US IS the UK in all the fundamentals of their basic law and how they have changed the organisation of society's laws in the last 110 years

Americans are kidding themselves if they think they are different, and deserve to be, and always will be different - because every step of their society's development has been pioneered in the UK - and that is a fact !

Name ONE important societal step the US has taken that has been emulated elsewhere - there isn't one - but I have listed lots of European advances that the US has much later grudgingly adopted

Americans are no different to anyone else, because they too get sick and poor and old and get picked on because of their race or gender etc. The answers to these problems are the answers that have been found elsewhere and it's only the American delusion that they are immune from all these problems that is holding them back

[Obama 2012 1,714]

If the US shouldn't be the UK, why do they keep changing societal laws to be the same as the UK ?

Do you disagree with any of the changes I listed above, and which ones would you repeal ?

State Pensions - UK first, US followed ---- shouldn't have followed.

World War I & II ---- sure as hell shouldn't have followed.

Universal Health Care ---- Definitely should not follow. Cost is the problem, yet. Government has done nothing to address this and has only added to the cost over the years.

Capital Punishment ------ should not follow.

[Captain Oates 911]

State Pensions - UK first, US followed ---- shouldn't have followed.

World War I & II ---- sure as hell shouldn't have followed.

Universal Health Care ---- Definitely should not follow. Cost is the problem, yet. Government has done nothing to address this and has only added to the cost over the years.

Capital Punishment ------ should not follow.

I will just pick one of those - world war 2

What you are saying is that the US should not have entered the war against Japan after Pearl Harbor ? and they should not have opposed Hitler ?

Your views on those two are very much in the minority in the USA

[Obama 2012 1,714]

I will just pick one of those - world war 2

What you are saying is that the US should not have entered the war against Japan after Pearl Harbor ? and they should not have opposed Hitler ?

Your views on those two are very much in the minority in the USA

Pearl Harbor was a result of US actions against Japan. Not saying we deserved it, but we weren't exactly innocent. We cut off supplies/trade with Japan and they retaliated. That's not to say we shouldn't have fought them. We did and that's fine.

As far as Germany goes, it wasn't our fight. Germany got mad at us for helping the allies and butting into something that frankly wasn't any of our business. They did declare war on us first, but there again our actions led to a reaction.

[mawilson 2,133]

Abolition of Slavery - UK first, US followed

Votes for women - UK first, US followed

World war 1 and 2 - UK first, US followed

Gays in the military - UK first, US followed

State Pensions - UK first, US followed

Universal Heath Care ? UK first in 1947, US still agonizing over whether to let its citizens be bankrupted

Color integrated Army units ? UK never had segregated, US caught up after ww2

Capital Punishment ? Abolished in the UK 50 years ago - still under debate in the US. No European countries will extradite capital cases to the US because of it.

That's all true, but

Electric guitar - US first, UK followed

Color TV - US first, UK followed

Zipper - US first, UK followed

Personal Computer - US first, UK followed

Internet - US first, UK followed

Credit Cards (Diners Club, Amex, Visa, Mastercard) - US first, UK followed

Automatic transmission - US first, UK still lagging behind

Edited September 21, 2011 by mawilson

[Captain Oates 911]

I actually agree with your analysis on health care and that the problem is the criminally oppressive prices of US health care suppliers and drug companies.

They should be crushed (guess who is protecting them), and then the way would be open to universal health care

That would cause a massive jobs boost and competitive advantage as the US healthcare on-cost would drop from 17% to 7% as it is in other evolved countries AND the health level of the US population would rise

When they asked Aneurin Bevan how he overcome the strike threats of the doctors, he said " I stuffed their mouths with gold"

He then scaled them back later after they had agreed to join in.

I don't regard US doctors as doctors - they are cynical thieves with nothing other than a monetary interest in their patients. In Europe the doctors are actually incentivized to care a damn about their patients as people

----- with money not being an issue.

as Bevan said 'The spectacle afforded us by the US is of technological brilliance and social blindness"

Edited September 21, 2011 by Alan the Red

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

I love playing the US didn't enter WW2 scenarios.

Here is my take:

Germany would be no more by the late 1940s (say 1948)

Europe and parts of the middle east would be part of a soviet empire and superpower No 1. (In 2011 there would still be a USSR)

Britain would have sued for peace and gone neutral probably hanging on to elements of the Empire.

Japan would be a massive empire controlling the pacific and south pacific along with Korea, China etc and Superpower No. 2

The US would not be a military super power but would be an economic one still.

Effectively you would have two great powers dominating the world, a third economic power, and then the remnants of the British Empire.

Edited September 21, 2011 by Sousuke

[Captain Oates 911]

I love playing the US didn't enter WW2 scenarios.

Here is my take:

Germany would be no more by the late 1940s (say 1948)

Europe and parts of the middle east would be part of a soviet empire and superpower No 1. (In 2011 there would still be a USSR)

Britain would have sued for peace and gone neutral probably hanging on to elements of the Empire.

Japan would be a massive empire controlling the pacific and south pacific along with Korea, China etc and Superpower No. 2

The US would not be a military super power but would be an economic one still.

Effectively you would have two great powers dominating the world, a third economic power, and then the remnants of the British Empire.

I agree with all of that

Of course the Americans think they won ww2 when they (and the UK) were just part of a mopping up operation in far western Europe after the soviet union had broken the germans at stalingrad and Moscow and leningrad and kursk and had shoved them all the way back to germany and crushed Berlin (at a cost of 250,000 dead) - and at a cost of 20 million Russian soldiers/civilans dead - while the Americans were trading nylons for sex in Italy and the Poles were doing the fighting in Holland and Ostfriesland and monte casino

ssshhh don't tell them - you know they get peevish about facts like that

Edited September 21, 2011 by Alan the Red