Men get put in JAIL when they can't afford to pay child support, but women get rewarded with a WELFARE CHECK.

[SMR 368]

Taking legal action is a lot different than "picking you up."

But are they going to come get him? I really doubt it.

I've never been divorced and I don't think you have either, Slim. Telling people to lawyer up and go back to court isn't reasonable if, as they say, the courts aren't treating them fairly and the lawyers are just taking the money and losing anyways. Would you give the same advice to Dred Scott? Did he just need to get a better lawyer?

Like I said, I don't have personal experience in this matter and, to be honest, don't personally know many people that do (none that I have discussed it with). But what I find telling about this thread is that there are half a dozen or more men relating stories of ridiculous decisions given to them or men they know personally. Naturally, we've only got half the story and this is all anecdotal. But if this was really a case of bad stuff happens in divorce court in a gender neutral and transparent way, I would expect to see some stories of women who had been screwed over in ridiculous ways in divorce court for alimony and child support. There would be men who were living it up with a new honey while the ex worked two jobs to support them.

So where are these women and the people that know them? Again it's all anecdotal. But if you can't come up with an anecdotal counter example that is saying something.

[slim 1,530]

I am not a betting man so I wouldn't bet on it. Besides it could come back to haunt me if I decide to apply for citizenship. I think that question comes up somewhere.

You're Canadian? That changes everything! Forget what I said. Of course Canada can come after you.

My apologies for assuming you were a USC in NY. As a LPR your rights (especially with Canada) are considerably different. Get that blue passport then tell her to stuff it!

Sorry Slim. Disagreed. Been there done that. They do not go after HER. She still recieves goverment help and they totally know she is deliquent when she left years ago. I just don't give a ####### anymore and neither does goverment. If the man did this, He is screwed.

If you been there, share that! I been there and don't give a rats #### anymore.

Is that why there's a woman's picture on the most wanted poster at my post office?

I realize the majority of child support cases are against men but it does happen to women too. Disproportionately, sure. But, it is out there.

I've never been divorced and I don't think you have either, Slim. Telling people to lawyer up and go back to court isn't reasonable if, as they say, the courts aren't treating them fairly and the lawyers are just taking the money and losing anyways. Would you give the same advice to Dred Scott? Did he just need to get a better lawyer?

All too often I hear "I got screwed" but you don't hear the whole story about, "I couldn't afford to keep paying the attorney so we just settled on it so I could get it behind me."

I've yet to hear of a brilliant legal defense when it comes to divorce. What I've seen time and again is a man going to court once (maybe twice) and "she took me for everything." It's also worth noting that most women plan for several months before they get divorced (including involving the attorney) and most men either catch a criminal charge or get "surprised" by the whole thing.

Dred Scott wasn't a USC. And if you think about it, his case worked. He lost the case but he won his freedom in the end.

Like I said, I don't have personal experience in this matter and, to be honest, don't personally know many people that do (none that I have discussed it with). But what I find telling about this thread is that there are half a dozen or more men relating stories of ridiculous decisions given to them or men they know personally. Naturally, we've only got half the story and this is all anecdotal. But if this was really a case of bad stuff happens in divorce court in a gender neutral and transparent way, I would expect to see some stories of women who had been screwed over in ridiculous ways in divorce court for alimony and child support. There would be men who were living it up with a new honey while the ex worked two jobs to support them.

So where are these women and the people that know them? Again it's all anecdotal. But if you can't come up with an anecdotal counter example that is saying something.

I know several divorced people and to a man, the dudes mess up. The ladies are pretty good at conniving and plotting and when they're not prepared, they cry. Works every time.

There is a disparity in judgements but, for the most part, I don't see it as a bias against men, I see it as women being better prepared for court and painting the picture of the bigger need. The reason you don't see a lot of women on here talking about how their ex-husband screwed them over is because most of the women on here are intelligent and intelligent women don't get screwed over. They're conniving and they plot to get what they want. Men, on the other hand, are too busy getting drunk and sowing their wild oats to think about things like skimming $20/week off the grocery bill to pay a divorce lawyer.

That's the difference.

[kytwell 179]

Slim you're right that women are better prepared. I actually believe that there's a playbook that they all use. And they paint themselves as the ultimate victim and it gets bought hook, line and sinker 99% of the time by the courts.

[SMR 368]

All too often I hear "I got screwed" but you don't hear the whole story about, "I couldn't afford to keep paying the attorney so we just settled on it so I could get it behind me."

I've yet to hear of a brilliant legal defense when it comes to divorce. What I've seen time and again is a man going to court once (maybe twice) and "she took me for everything." It's also worth noting that most women plan for several months before they get divorced (including involving the attorney) and most men either catch a criminal charge or get "surprised" by the whole thing.

So men never initiate a divorce? And if the men "catch a criminal charge" doesn't that in itself illustrate a bias? I mean, is it really that difficult for the judge to understand that the woman has every reason to bring a false criminal accusation against the man she is divorcing? You seem to be implying that if a woman brings a criminal charge against her soon to be ex-husband, he is in a disadvantaged position, even if it's just his word against hers. That implies bias. I think you would agree that a man could not allege physical abuse from his wife to the same effect in a divorce case, regardless of his level of planning.

Dred Scott wasn't a USC. And if you think about it, his case worked. He lost the case but he won his freedom in the end.

Obviously, there are a lot of differences in the Dred Scott Case. My point is just the fallacy of assuming that a person who alleges injustice just prepared poorly and is foolish, which is essentially what you are doing.

I know several divorced people and to a man, the dudes mess up. The ladies are pretty good at conniving and plotting and when they're not prepared, they cry. Works every time.

And you think this would work for a man, assuming he planned, etc.? I don't think a guy crying in court would get anywhere. That is already an admission of the bias of the courts.

There is a disparity in judgements but, for the most part, I don't see it as a bias against men, I see it as women being better prepared for court and painting the picture of the bigger need. The reason you don't see a lot of women on here talking about how their ex-husband screwed them over is because most of the women on here are intelligent and intelligent women don't get screwed over. They're conniving and they plot to get what they want. Men, on the other hand, are too busy getting drunk and sowing their wild oats to think about things like skimming $20/week off the grocery bill to pay a divorce lawyer.

That's the difference.

So men don't plan? Don't consider the future of their families, finances, and options? They're all just drunks screwing everything in sight. Maybe, on the average, women plan better. But there are lots of divorces out there. Shouldn't the man be winning sometimes? I understand the women here are smart. You think the men are idiots? Maybe there is a man here on VJ that has screwed an ex-wife over in divorce court? I'm not holding my breathe. Also, $20 a week isn't going to get you much of a lawyer unless you plan this for years. (Kinda reminds me of "It's a wonderful life:" "I been saving this money for a divorce if ever I get a husband.")

As I said, I have neither data nor personal experience to say that men are disadvantaged in divorce court. But it's rather presumptive and ignorant when multiple people come to you and say that have personally experienced that screwing and you assume that they just planned badly, gave up too easily, or were just foolish.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Copying from a friends Facebook status:

‎"Men get put in JAIL when they can't afford to pay child support, but women get rewarded with a WELFARE CHECK. What a double standard. If a woman can't take care of a child without government assistance, she is just as much of a DEADBEAT as the dude she laid down with."

Do you AGREE WITH THIS GUY'S STATEMENT????

It sounds like someone repeating a common cliché without knowing the facts behind it. There are people who do the same about immigrants receiving public benefits

[slim 1,530]

Slim you're right that women are better prepared. I actually believe that there's a playbook that they all use. And they paint themselves as the ultimate victim and it gets bought hook, line and sinker 99% of the time by the courts.

Exactly. The court can only judge on what is presented to them and, more often than not, men present very little except their pay check stubs and a half-hearted, "your honor, I just tried to be a good husband" before they're given the royal pounding.

Meanwhile the wife has all types of stuff - everything from day care receipts to a doctors note detailing how she was mentally abused and under so much stress she couldn't work.

So men never initiate a divorce? And if the men "catch a criminal charge" doesn't that in itself illustrate a bias? I mean, is it really that difficult for the judge to understand that the woman has every reason to bring a false criminal accusation against the man she is divorcing? You seem to be implying that if a woman brings a criminal charge against her soon to be ex-husband, he is in a disadvantaged position, even if it's just his word against hers. That implies bias. I think you would agree that a man could not allege physical abuse from his wife to the same effect in a divorce case, regardless of his level of planning.

If a man were to claim he'd been beaten of course that doesn't matter as much because of the double standard in our society. The double standard is there in the court as well but my point is it's not as inherently biased as some are making it out to be. In my personal experience (parents, siblings, friends, etc.) the guy is almost always ill-prepared for a divorce and the wife has been planning it for quite some time.

That's not necessarily because of a double standard - it's because of the facts presented to the court. Does the man have a harder time proving things? Absolutely. But, it's not impossible because when men do initiate it, they often have overwhelming evidence too.

Obviously, there are a lot of differences in the Dred Scott Case. My point is just the fallacy of assuming that a person who alleges injustice just prepared poorly and is foolish, which is essentially what you are doing.

You still have to have a leg to stand on when you go to court. Dred Scott had zero rights in this country. None. He didn't even have the right to sue yet he tried. That's a completely different ballgame. It aint even the same sport.

And you think this would work for a man, assuming he planned, etc.? I don't think a guy crying in court would get anywhere. That is already an admission of the bias of the courts.

Crying, no. But, providing an expert witness (Private Investigator) with photographic evidence of an affair is pretty hard to beat.

So men don't plan? Don't consider the future of their families, finances, and options? They're all just drunks screwing everything in sight. Maybe, on the average, women plan better. But there are lots of divorces out there. Shouldn't the man be winning sometimes? I understand the women here are smart. You think the men are idiots? Maybe there is a man here on VJ that has screwed an ex-wife over in divorce court? I'm not holding my breathe. Also, $20 a week isn't going to get you much of a lawyer unless you plan this for years. (Kinda reminds me of "It's a wonderful life:" "I been saving this money for a divorce if ever I get a husband.")

As I said, I have neither data nor personal experience to say that men are disadvantaged in divorce court. But it's rather presumptive and ignorant when multiple people come to you and say that have personally experienced that screwing and you assume that they just planned badly, gave up too easily, or were just foolish.

In my personal experience the dudes have all been "wild and crazy in their younger days" and that could include marrying a woman who wasn't right for them. Add kids to that and once he settles down a little and has life all figured out, it's too late. However, the woman's been plotting all along how to take his @$$ to the cleaners and by the time it finally goes down, it's too late for him.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

There were no kids involved...thank god. When I caught her fcking around on me, she called 911 with a bogus story. Straight to jail no questions asked. Then come court time to see who got what...she got the new car, the house, and I got a 1982 pick up and the property we had in Washington state that had a whole two years equity, yet the house she got was less than 15 years from being paid off. I made almost twice the money she made up until that last two years yet the court didn't give two sh*ts about that. It's rigged.

And if there were kids involved it still wouldn't make it right. The courts lean one direction, and it isn't in the direction of the #######. The courts favor the ####### 90+% of the time.

I don't think your subjective experience represents the objective truth that would justify this comment.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Exactly. The court can only judge on what is presented to them and, more often than not, men present very little except their pay check stubs and a half-hearted, "your honor, I just tried to be a good husband" before they're given the royal pounding.

Meanwhile the wife has all types of stuff - everything from day care receipts to a doctors note detailing how she was mentally abused and under so much stress she couldn't work.

If a man were to claim he'd been beaten of course that doesn't matter as much because of the double standard in our society. The double standard is there in the court as well but my point is it's not as inherently biased as some are making it out to be. In my personal experience (parents, siblings, friends, etc.) the guy is almost always ill-prepared for a divorce and the wife has been planning it for quite some time.

That's not necessarily because of a double standard - it's because of the facts presented to the court. Does the man have a harder time proving things? Absolutely. But, it's not impossible because when men do initiate it, they often have overwhelming evidence too.

You still have to have a leg to stand on when you go to court. Dred Scott had zero rights in this country. None. He didn't even have the right to sue yet he tried. That's a completely different ballgame. It aint even the same sport.

Crying, no. But, providing an expert witness (Private Investigator) with photographic evidence of an affair is pretty hard to beat.

In my personal experience the dudes have all been "wild and crazy in their younger days" and that could include marrying a woman who wasn't right for them. Add kids to that and once he settles down a little and has life all figured out, it's too late. However, the woman's been plotting all along how to take his @$$ to the cleaners and by the time it finally goes down, it's too late for him.

I can't speak for others, but I provided everything my attorney asked for and still got shafted. I was present during the court hearing and I don't think there was anything more my attorney could have done to change the outcome. If the court is going to be prejudice...it is what it is. It call comes down to the judge.

[sly_wolf 199]

Exactly. The court can only judge on what is presented to them and, more often than not, men present very little except their pay check stubs and a half-hearted, "your honor, I just tried to be a good husband" before they're given the royal pounding.

Meanwhile the wife has all types of stuff - everything from day care receipts to a doctors note detailing how she was mentally abused and under so much stress she couldn't work.

for him.

The divorce courts are nothing but a sham. My wife lied in court and so did her lawyer. At the time I could not prove that her lawyer was lying but the judge caught my ex wife in her lie. The judge did nothing about it. I remember that day well and I also learned something that day .... it's ok to lie in court ..... honesty has no place in court.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

The divorce courts are nothing but a sham. My wife lied in court and so did her lawyer. At the time I could not prove that her lawyer was lying but the judge caught my ex wife in her lie. The judge did nothing about it. I remember that day well and I also learned something that day .... it's ok to lie in court ..... honesty has no place in court.

+1

I got a $500 contempt of court fine for asking the judge if she could add 2+2 or if she needed a calculator (in regards to tax returns). It's a rigged game is what it is.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

You should unfriend this person, having him on your feed is going to kill your brain cells slowly.

And someone will notice?

Whoever is the custodial parent payus child support to the non-custodial parent. Parents that do not pay can go to jail. As it should be.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

And someone will notice?

Whoever is the custodial parent payus child support to the non-custodial parent. Parents that do not pay can go to jail. As it should be.

I don't see the jails being loaded up with women who fail to pay their share of child support. So that "parents that don't pay can go to jail" is a little bit scewed imo.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I don't see the jails being loaded up with women who fail to pay their share of child support. So that "parents that don't pay can go to jail" is a little bit scewed imo.

Thats only because about 90% + of the custodial parents are women. Very few women are required to PAY child support. There are far less women that would be/could be subject to the penalty.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Thats only because about 90% + of the custodial parents are women. Very few women are required to PAY child support. There are far less women that would be/could be subject to the penalty.

Now ask yourself why so many women are granted custody.

[slim 1,530]

I can't speak for others, but I provided everything my attorney asked for and still got shafted. I was present during the court hearing and I don't think there was anything more my attorney could have done to change the outcome. If the court is going to be prejudice...it is what it is. It call comes down to the judge.

Everything your attorney asked for. Is that the same as everything the court asks for?

Also, you went in with a criminal charge. That couldn't have helped at all.

The divorce courts are nothing but a sham. My wife lied in court and so did her lawyer. At the time I could not prove that her lawyer was lying but the judge caught my ex wife in her lie. The judge did nothing about it. I remember that day well and I also learned something that day .... it's ok to lie in court ..... honesty has no place in court.

It's all about evidence presented. Regardless of what you say, the paper is what they're looking at.

I got a $500 contempt of court fine for asking the judge if she could add 2+2 or if she needed a calculator (in regards to tax returns). It's a rigged game is what it is.

Perfect example of what I'm talking about. "The guy always gets screwed over."

Well, when you walk in with a criminal charge pending, get a contempt charge in the process of the divorce proceedings... you're not going to walk out with much. I don't think you can blame all this on her.

Sure they may've been biased in part of it, but you didn't help yourself out at all either.