help with mama

[sunandmoon 450]

I thought there was a boat in this deal that is still forthcoming.

maybe MIL and FIL blew that deal due to misappropriation of funds. or maybe FIL wanted an upgrade from a pump boat...

http://sulit.com.ph/3672781

[Dan and Judy 614]

Geez. Yer makin' it too easy Darren! Drama 101. Did I forget to mention I was up on two counts of capital murder with aggravating circumstances in Idaho?

I once took out a mailbox with my volkswagon, but I aint telling which state cuz they're still lookin for me.

[Dan and Judy 614]

I once took out a mailbox with my volkswagon, but I aint telling which state cuz they're still lookin for me.

30 years on the lam. One step ahead of the feds. Ha Ha Ha, they'll never take me alive!! Ha Ha Ha

[rlogan 2,036]

maybe MIL and FIL blew that deal due to misappropriation of funds. or maybe FIL wanted an upgrade from a pump boat...

http://sulit.com.ph/3672781

Beauty. Mindanao is fished out close to the bigger cities, and further out there are some areas that were dynamite fished. That hull shape, but on smaller scale, can get you out to the grounds where tuna and other big money fish are, but without high operating and maintenance costs. Kind of exciting to think about. For me anyway. Picking fish off a gillnet is a lot of fun. Honest work too. I'd operate out of West Palawan. Plenty of fish and not many people. Other than Chinese, Vietnamese, and Philippine Navy ships threatening each other over the Spratleys.

We just have a little one for family fish, not to market. No engine. Skid Row budget boat.

[hoody 8]

we never seem to hear Gretchen's side of the story

[Crashed~N2~Me 970]

one post removed for taking a quote of a member and then editing the quote to make a personal insult towards that member.

A thread full of "personal insult" posts.

It's alarming to think how bad things could get without a deputy like you to keep the peace and order.

Keep up the "eh s'ok" work. 'Cause IMO, You're doing a "C+" job!

Edited September 28, 2011 by Crashed~N2~Me

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

What would be wrong with Gretchen getting a little part time job to earn enough money to send back home? That wouldn't hurt your future family and it would give her some pride.

I don't think you should be calling yourself an expert on how to run household finances. You clearly aren't very good at it yourself or you wouldn't be broke for three weeks after coming home. That really is no kind of "lesson" for her.

I don't think you realize what a double standard you are exhibiting to her. It's OK for you to blow the bankroll, but not her family back home.

Gotta walk the talk or you look foolish, you know.

[rlogan 2,036]

Because that would empower her?

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Because that would empower her?

Does your wife work outside the home? I think it's good for a woman to make at least some financial contribution to the household. It's especially good for her state of mind. I've been a stay at home mom. I quite liked it. I was able to keep my house clean and I cooked the way I like. I was home for my son when he got home from school. It really was great.

But I also had a home-based business (a successful one at that) and that kept me from going nuts. There's only so much mopping and wiping and dusting and diapering you can do in a day. And the loneliness - yikes. Even Moms who are active at their children's schools don't get enough varied socialization if the only other women they know are just like them.

I don't think it's "un-traditional" at all for a woman to go earn a little bit of money. Women have taken in laundry, baked, mended, and cleaned other peoples houses for centuries in order to help make ends meet.

So what if the women in Gretchen's village don't work. Isn't it part of the "problem" in the village that people are poor? The way out of poverty is to work. I think if Darren really wanted Gretchen to move beyond what he calls her "tribalism" then he'd encourage her to move into at least some form of feudalism.

*edited for spelling*

Edited September 30, 2011 by Rebecca Jo

[I_Am_That_I_Am 46]

TOTALLY AGREE!!! and Darren, man! YOU'RE STILL TALKING?!!!

a lot has been said here already. if it's me, i would run and hide. i'd be soooo embarrased... yikes!

NEVER TRUST a guy who TALKS TOO MUCH...

darren likes to give so much information bcoz he likes the attention that is given to him by all the members who posted here... same as in the village too he liked the attention that was given to him by the village thats why he loose out of control in spending his money. its already sickening hearing about the MIL issues now he is pulling out the ex issues... Its a never ending drama... you can almost make a tele novela out of your dramatics.

[sunandmoon 450]

This thread was been going for well over a week... here's a recap of Darren's posts...

ok, new post. Sorry so long but hopefully the more information, less torment from others. How to deal with mama in law? told her and the family: "akin sya ngyon" (she is mine now. Gretchen is extremely happy I said this. It seems to have really improved our relationship. i told Gretchen "your parents no longer control you. I do. We are not married yet in vows, but you live with me here. In my heart, we are already married.")

I really truly very very very very much respect the parents of mahal ko.

mama is holding a grudge against others from the village here in the USA because they are not helping out the village. mama does not want her daughter associating with them. mama does not understand if mama cuts off her daughter from them, her daughter may not succeed in adjustment to USA. She does not seem to understand USA too much. the others helped out their family. They could barely afford to do that and right now have lost much. mama seems to want to really "run the village since she is president of the chapel". I told the brother I am trying to be nice. mama does not want to make me upset. (I haven't told Gretchen or her parents yet, but those same people mama does not want her daughter to associate with will be the witnesses for the wedding here in the USA. the same people mama does not want Gretchen seeing will confirm the marriage and help Gretchen to stay here. mama is messing with Gretchen's future and in turn mama's own future.)

(But when I hear mama trying to influence things on her daughter, who no longer lives at home, she had better start thinking who wears the pants and who wears the dresses. Also mama needs to start thinking of the "gravy train". I am focusing on here now with Gretchen. I have told papa very little money will be coming until I recover financially from the trip. Gretchen and I went shopping here tonight. Gretchen noticed the cost of food and items was much, much higher than back home. Plus, we have to go Sept 8 through Sept 29 with no paychecks. What we spent while I was there in the philippines is now affecting us here. Gretchen is learning the budget was there for a reason. the next 2 or 3 weeks will be tough, but better to teach now than later. Friends have offered to help out, but i have told them, "thanks, but helping out does not re-enforce the budget or how her parents home affects her new home. How she lives here is directly affected by the money which was spent over there.")

Also, I am going to be really putting down my foot. Seems mama was out buying paint today. I just saw things while I was there. I believe and not yet confirmed the 6,000php I gave to Gretchen in Manila went directly to mama with or without papa knowing. Mama getting her hair done right after we landed, eating lunch at the mall makes me believe that. papa may not have known since he asked me for money to go home and food. Or maybe they told Gretchen not to tell me. (they bought a new purse for Gretchen and underwear (Gretchen told them but not me which upset me) as well which makes me believe they had the 6,000 php) Either way, it has upset me and Gretchen now knows hiding things from me is a bad, bad thing. I have told Gretchen to tell me her needs and wants. Gretchen did not yet see herself as belonging to me while we were there. I hope I have finally cleared this up.

I have told the oldest brother, mama would do well and may fare better in the long run by listening to the daughter of the mom who I am friends with here. I have talked with Gretchen about this too in much length today. (I will post more on this discussion later.) Gretchen now understands fully where I am coming from.

The phrase is what Gretchen gave me. What phrase helps to understand in her village.

gretchen is not property. Gretchen is mine just like I am hers. The idea is Gretchen and I are a family unit belonging to each other. Gretchen can make her own decisions. the idea is Gretchen and I make decisions together.

As for pants and dresses. She comes from a very very province town. The saying goes in the village, if the women start wearing the pants, the men will start wearing the dresses because "someone has to wear the dresses" You may call it a 1950's mentality, but it is still something which is found in 90% of the world. America is the only country which chooses to call the mentality "old fashioned". And I ain't looking for sympathy. I am looking for input..... like johnny 5 .... input, input, innnnnpppuuuuttttt.

ok, I know some parts of what I have said are objectionable to some. I hope people understand I do not "own" or "control" Gretchen except in sense which helps her to "feel" as such in her culture. Please note the phrase I posted means more in their culture, plus establishes me as the "role" in the family for me and Gretchen. I am having to walk a very hard line between being respectful, and dealing with other issues. AS for the people at the wedding. These are the "family" they introduced me to. Stating in the beginning these people were "family". Arrangements to have them at the wedding was made a long time ago just after Gretchen and I were engaged in order to provide witnesses for the finalizing of the k-1 visa to AOS. This was before the moeny I started sending to support Gretchen each month. There was a major falling out between families after my second visit. Not sure what it was, but believe it was related to support I was sending Gretchen. Seeing what I saw my last visit. I think it was the purchasing of furniture and other items for the house in June without telling me. Just taking the money and abusing what I was sending. the "family" who they introduced me to tried to warn the mother-in-law, but mama-in-law chose to ignore them. I am not sure the whole story yet. But I am digging very very deeply now before the wedding.

this is the part I am trying to deal with the demands for money from Kanos. I learned about the "what goes in, goes out". Having been working with Gretchen on it. However, the hard part is her turning over money to her parents, thinking I just had more money to give or for to support both me and Gretchen. I am trying not to offend people on here. Nor am I trying to offend her parents. However, I know I have to start setting some ground rules on money or I will go nuts trying to make everyone happy. then when I am broke no one will understand why in the heck we cannot send any money.

I mean things started getting out of hand on the second week being there in the village. Money to get home and for food. Money for a farewell party. Money to travel back and forth from village. Money to rent a jeepney. Money for class party. Money for a church seminar. No load on phone, No load in internet smart card. The phone you bought me went to my brother. I bought this phone with money you sent me, it now is going to my mother. Mother got electric to the house in her name. Some of the clothes I took for Gretchen ended up going to other aunts and cousins in the family. It was getting tiring for me. Also, please understand I have sent 160,000php since meeting Gretchen. the money was to support Gretchen. Internet per month was only 1200 php (200php unlimited internet for 5 days, I found this out as leaving.) With the money I sent, they could have bought a boat had they saved each month. But the money was spent on other items without thought to when Gretchen was leaving. Now Gretchen is seeing the living here. Wondering why no furniture yet. buying groceries. Spending time with the kids. My work. Gretchen is happy. But I feel so bad because of how much the trip bit into finances for home here. the first week was fine. the second week, in the village. The budget went nuts. It should have been less for just the two of us. But it absolutely went crazy. The harder I tried to keep on budget the worse it got. I spent nearly 60,000 php or better the second week compared with 35,000php the first week and I did not know the 6,000php was gone until Saturday, the 17th. Talk about being shocked.

I am not trying to control. But I went on a limited budget, with some allowances for overages. But the problem is the expectations. Somehow there is this thinking the money came in, just spend it. then when she runs out for load, he will send more. No thought as to how it made me feel when I found out what had been going on. You can say all you want about culture, this, that, robbing the cradle. But I feel so much like a schmuck over all the money sent.

Please note, I am dealing with a tribal customs not todays mentality in most of the world. Everything Americans believe or hold true go out the door in this area. they are not barbaric, however, there are certain customs of a tribal nature which hold true. I am dealing with mentality of a "Kano" in their minds, plus the customs and traditions they hold to. What I am not posting is much more shocking then what I am posting. What I am learning and the translations would send most Americans into fits, tantrums, and human rights activists screaming.

This is a tribal custom. A right of passage into marriage for a girl. It is the changing of being a child into being a responsible adult. I am having to research the old tribal customs of the philippines to even understand these things myself. I am involved in many tribal customs having to be performed. I just wish I knew how to explain it. It is more closely related to native american customs then anything else I can find. But even then the customs as still different.

man, I haven't posted on the thread for a while, jsut letting it take its toll on [people winding out. Sheesh. I love mahal ko. I am happy she spent money on her family and took care of them versus spending money on herself. It shows me how important family is to her. If she cares about her parents and family that much, how much more will she care about our family we have together?

the problem is the lack of forethought. the spending without saving. Being ready for a "rainy day". there is a typhoon right now in northern Philippines. I feel sad for everyone it is affecting.

It is also affecting the village. they cannot fish. I do not have money to send them. I just got back and have to catch up again. MIL went out and spent money on paint instead of saving the money. Now the family is hurting for food, plus learning, I just cannot send money right now. No matter how much I want to, there are bills and responsibilities here now with Gretchen. (MIL had money to make it through rough times until I recovered here and MIL spent it on paint. I can't fix the "little red wagon" when I have to wait on the parts to fix "the wagon" myself.) I even told FIL it will be a few weeks before I can send money and then only 4300php a month. (it cost me including work loss a total of 740,000php for the trip) the problem is they are not and were not considering the expenses here. that money I sent to Gretchen had to be coming from somewhere. there was no thought to the fact the money might be the same amount I would spend to take care of her here in the US per month. I am now in the learning curve. MIL, and the family in the village is learning. If you take form the pocket, you are affecting something else. This time the money you took from the pocket affected their daughter in the US when we got back. I tried to explain to Gretchen how tight the budget was. The first week it worked. The second week, it did not work. I hate putting my foot down right now. But there is no better time to learn. Get through the rough weeks now versus not learning and having to repeat again down the road. Next time, Gretchen will be saying "no" much more often when she knows how it affects things back home.

hehe, geez. I do not want control. How do I know how to say it???? if I wanted control, I would run for political office and get in politics. Wanting to control to me is like wanting to tame the wind. Forget it, no fun. I absolutely hate it.

It is a good thing she spent money on the family. However, the problem was the lack of concern for us. She never said it was too much, or where the money was going to go. It was for food, and for her and I to talk. Instead of letting me know it was too much, they just used the money, then next month she was out of money again and needed more for us to continue talking. Instead of being thrifty with a little money, they went overboard with excess. Instead of thinking ahead to when I did find out. Of course I was upset and mad when I found out. She knows it upset me. It was for a good cause for the family. However, it has affected things here.

I am a contractor. I do not work. No money. I lost as much money from not working as the trip cost me. And yes I came back with $300 in my pocket, $17 in savings, and $500 overdraft in my checking account with no payday for 10 days. From Saturday to payday, we are living on $30. Now that I am working, money will start flowing again. But I will have gone 21 days without a paycheck.

AS for her working, that is not what we want. She wants children. I want her to be at home with the children. I do not want her working. To me family is important. Very important. Also, in her village no women work. It is not like the "modern" society views. Sorry, but those of you who a liberals on here. I am a traditionalist. I respect your views, please respect mine and Gretchen. her working to send money home to family does not solidify our marriage. She ends up being married to me so she can send money home to mom and dad. How is that a good thing for the marriage? Her parents are still her master, not you. In a marriage, there is a family unit. If she is serving her parents by working to send them money, How are you and her being a family?

In my own humble opinion, the parents need to be told what I told my fiancee's family. She is mine now. We will take care of you. But do not make any demands of her without ME knowing. Do not put pressure on her, come to ME. I am the head of the household. I care for her and for her family. But I will not allow them to make demands or cause her to hide things from me as has been done. I am cutting to the root of the cause. I now know you enjoyed the "excess" money I sent. I now know I sent too much money. Your house is built, you have done things. Now I am building my house with my fiancee. Once our house is built and in order then and only then will we come back to the family in the village. You have enjoyed excess. You have taken advantage. I need time to think this over with Gretchen and talk with her. my house is important. Just as your house is there. However, I am not moving to the village, nor do I intend to live in the Philippines. Gretchen does not want to live in the Philippines either. I am allergic to fruit pollen and some raw fruit. I suffered while there. Only Gretchen knows and I did not tell her until we were leaving.)

Right now, my ex is pissed over Gretchen and hauling me back to court. I have to take care of that issue now. and my ex does not even know I know yet. She thinks it is still a surprise.

Gretchen knows exactly all that is happening. I do not hide anything from her. I tell her all that is going on. She has seen my ex. But they have not spoken. I do not know how Gretchen will re-act to her. Gretchen is very very shy. But I think if you corner her, you had better watch out. I don't think Gretchen is a girl you can push around. My ex may make that mistake and find out exactly what filipinas are like. Gretchen and I make jokes about "clubs" and "husband attention getters" (rolling pins and skillet-cast iron pans) But she knows how much I love her. nothing is as important to me as she is.

My frustration is just over the cost of the trip with the little incidentals the second week of the trip, with the "unknown" issues coming back. It is like saying no is something which makes you look bad because of what has been said about you by her family. then when she comes back here, she finds out you are not rich but just living a normal good life. And food is something you have plenty of. Also working a normal 9 to 5 job is something new. You work everyday. (sometimes more) and when you say you are leaving to go somewhere, you are actually going somewhere. Village life is much more relaxed then life in the USA.....

[rlogan 2,036]

Does your wife work outside the home? I think it's good for a woman to make at least some financial contribution to the household.

We both work from home. We live in a cabin in the woods, and the idea is to maximize the time home, especially with two kids. I do consulting on the internet but have done construction too. My wife helps do things I would have to pay for. If I need to do meetings or focus groups or presentations you always need someone else doing registration or recording or whatever. So she does that kind of thing, and she gets whatever I would have to pay. But her highest value is in home production. Not just the kids and running the house, but we have a lot of homesteader-type work we do. Wood harvesting is top of the list because we heat with it, along with snow removal in the winter, and in summer we have a system of trails we maintain. Don't laugh but her cruising of Craigslist is worth a fortune. A $1,000.00 plow truck for example - the plow alone was worth more than that! Four-wheelers and snowmachines, construction materials like free plywood, 110 gallons of heating fuel for $2.74 a gallon plus the two 55 gallon drums - some incredible scores. A free piano - beat that. Anything she produces like that is essentially untaxed income.

She gets what we call "salary" for whatever she does. About to score $500, the bounty on the $1,000.00 four wheeler. I think she pulled it off tonight. She gets a modest amount monthly too.

I'm a retired professor so we're home schooling. Bussing the kids anywhere is a huge negative for many years down the road.

Even Moms who are active at their children's schools don't get enough varied socialization if the only other women they know are just like them.

I imagine so. We are happy as clams with the two of us and the kids all day.

I don't think it's "un-traditional" at all for a woman to go earn a little bit of money. Women have taken in laundry, baked, mended, and cleaned other peoples houses for centuries in order to help make ends meet.

Couldn't agree more. They also welded at airplane assembly plants in world wars and led men into battle on occasion.

So what if the women in Gretchen's village don't work. Isn't it part of the "problem" in the village that people are poor? The way out of poverty is to work. I think if Darren really wanted Gretchen to move beyond what he calls her "tribalism" then he'd encourage her to move into at least some form of feudalism.

*edited for spelling*

I see. Oh dear. I must not have made it clear I was joking around with the job empowering Gretchen. Of course it would and it would be good for her. Mine was studying accounting in college, and was going to continue on when she came here but two kids later we are loving the work-at-home thing in a pristine, quiet place with nature all around us.

[crazykuya73 16]

I guess I should consider myself very lucky. My future-in-laws doesn't expect me to pay them and they told me, "Just love her with your heart". I done that and alot more. I was upfront and honest with her parents. I told them I'm not rich and don't drive a fancy car, but "I love your daughter more than all the money in the world". I even asked her father for her hand in their Visayan dialect. I still continue to learn to show them I respect them and their culture. I told them whatever money I send them, its up to them how they spend it or save. They didn't have to feel obligated to me or anything else. I told them to live their life the way they want.

You seem to act like you're the expert of the filipino culture ? My fiancee has read your thread and her thoughts of your knowledge of the filipino culture.. Well.. One word summed it up.. CLUELESS ! I read most of your threads, including this one and one previous about your last trip there. So many things should be kept to yourself and not for the whole world to know. This is a free country and you can post whatever comes to your mind, but think long and hard before you do.

I have two filipina aunts (by marriage) and both of them were already here when my uncles married them. I learned some about the culture from them and if you think you are going the be "Amo" (boss) of your future wife, you better think again !

I sent them the links to see your comments for themselves and they had some choice words... Loser and IDIOT were the nicest ones I heard.

Do yourself a favor ? If you truly love your lady.. Keep the personal stuff to yourself and you won't be subjected to all the backlash.

[Fandango 1,439]

I am absolutely gobsmacked reading this thread. I also have reached my max # of +1s about 3/4 of the way through.

Darren, I'm going to take what everyone's said here one step further. I think what you've done to this poor girl should be criminal. You lured her here under extremely false pretenses. You yanked her away from everything she knows into a life she wasn't expecting. You got to play the hero man, and I'm sure you lapped up all the accolades and feeling like a big shot while you were doing it. You spent more than you have, yet you blame them for not telling you it was 'too much'. #######.

Gretchen's mother holds grudges with her family when they don't send money. Have you given any thought to whether or not 'mama' will hold a grudge against her as well? For your own selfish needs, you are systematically destroying a young girl's life. It's awful. You threw 'all this money' ($4k is a pittance imo) around, and now have her firmly away from her parents, on foreign soil...she's young, impressionable, shy...and you've brought her home to a man more than twice her age, who's broke, with no way to get money home to her family AS PROMISED, you're creating a domestic situation with her extended family/'mama' which you have no business being a part of, you've reneged on promises you've made to her family, and you won't even LET her work to send it herself.

Did you honestly kid yourself to believe that Gretchen's feelings for you had absolutely nothing to do with a financial benefit? To what extent is unknown, but don't fool yourself to think it had no effect whatsoever.

How the hell does any grown adult spend all this money, take time off from work, for an unnecessary trip to play big shot, when you have less than $20 in the bank?????? YOU want to teach HER about budgeting? Who's going to teach YOU?

Then you talk of having kids with her! Lock her down nice and tight, eh? Btw, why is your ex bringing you back into court? Presumably, you and the ex have children together and you're not meeting your financial obligations? omG please tell me I'm wrong on this inference. Please tell me your kids didn't go without so you can play big shot and buy a child bride and bring her into poverty.

I'm not even going to get into the 'I control you' bollocks because I am literally sick to my stomach.

You've completely pulled off the bait n switch. van with the 'free candy' sign has wilted broccoli inside. I hope when the time comes, Gretchen pulls off a successful VAWA.

Edited October 2, 2011 by Anita Cocktail

[crazykuya73 16]

Anita,

You have pretty much summed up what we have been feeling on reading this thread and past threads too. My fiancee is in Manila with her daughter getting their physical today as I'm typing this comment. Much as I love to be there with them, I would just be in the way and out more money than I want to spend. I don't have alot of it anyway ! I knew from the begining not to make advance plans until it was a sure thing ! Common sense !

It's obvious he doesn't have a clue about the filipino culture. Tribalism ? My aunts had a field day reading his comments on this thread and wondered what planet he came from ? His mind must be in the 18th or 19th century.. Totally clueless and a jerk too. The age difference is entirely up to the people involved.. It's their business and if they truly love each other,it shouldn't matter. The comments said about "control" should've never been said.. Darren.. Google "Filipino culture" and if you read carefully, it doesn't say anything about CONTROL or OWNING your spouse. Read the part of TODAY.. The 21st century of the filipino cuture as it is now !

Your lady will be "American-ized" sooner or later and you might as well be ready for it. She eventually get tired of you controlling her and disrespecting her family. You both want children ? Cool ! More income for her when she hooks you up for child support. If you think that filipinas don't believe in divorce ? You need to read some threads on here and quit blabbing about your pathetic life.

Edited October 2, 2011 by crazykuya73