help with mama

[Tahoma 2,292]

Its funny that so many of you are attacking him because of their age difference, saying he is robbing the cradle because she has no life experience. I joined this site (after just visiting the Philippines) I made the comment here, how shocked I was that there were so many older men (50yrs old) with such young girls(18-20yrs old)in Manila and that it turned my stomach. They had no life experience what so ever and now there is some American throwing money around luring them in. I was telling my fiance while we visited manila that there is no way that this would be acceptable in the states. Wow did I get attacked after posting my comment, saying I was insulting half of the VJ community and the comments just kept coming until I just laughed them off and didn't give a response to fuel the fire. Now its OK for you to do the same to Darren, because he doing the same thing that I was describing and your seeing the reality of it unfold here. Yes, I know there is a lot more to this story then just age, but man you love to mention it. lol

Of the posters in this thread who commented on the age difference, which ones attacked you in the other thread for commenting on age differences?

OH and btw, everyone who is a drama queen cares....they want to criticize your every move now. Don't feed the sharks!!! lol

Is there something wrong with pointing out poor behavior, hypocrisy, stereotyping, denial, or misinformation?

[Tahoma 2,292]

Sorry...double post.

Edited October 6, 2011 by Tahoma

[fil01 16]

I think the thing people are missing here. Is HOW to deal with Filipinos and in-laws. That was the question. And I gave information to help. I do not know everything. And dealing with Filipino in-laws and family is something very new to me. The trip cost me a lot. Then to come back home, and have to hire a lawyer to deal with my ex again for child support and parenting time. Plus I am transitioning to management from technical. Gretchen knows and is with me. We are working out things together.

I could tell you the conversation, but who really cares?? all I can tell you is I am taking care of the fmaily here in the USA first. then the family in the philippines second. Everyone wants to say how little experience she has. The problem is the teaching in the schools. the teaching of finanaces. those are not taught in the school or at home there. Have it, spend it. Not a way to live well. Need money, or have no money, get a loan or credit to make it through until you again. Be in debt. You have to focus on how to get ahead. Saving money is something most americans do naturally. We learn at a yoong age. It is a difference in culture. I am dealing with curtural issues. the american idea and the filipino idea. All I have to do is work through it.

I see that you are still in denial about your control issue. The only information you gave everyone was a clinic on how not to deal with inlaws. You've been trying to micromanage everything and then wondering why it doesn't work. Also, you've completely ignored some excellent advice from Filipinos and from others who commented on this issue.

You're also still acting the hypocrite by criticizing your inlaws about money matters when you yourself are the biggest offender. However, when this was previously pointed out to you, you simply ignored it. I'm sure you'll do the same thing this time.

And, once again, you are stereotyping Filipinos with your comment about their spending habits. To make matters worse, you're trying to come across as an expert on why it happens. How do you know what is taught in Filipino schools or what is taught at home in the Philippines? Of course, the answer is *you don't*.

Edited October 6, 2011 by fil01

[rlogan 2,036]

Its funny that so many of you are attacking him because of their age difference, saying he is robbing the cradle because she has no life experience. I joined this site (after just visiting the Philippines) I made the comment here, how shocked I was that there were so many older men (50yrs old) with such young girls(18-20yrs old)in Manila and that it turned my stomach. They had no life experience what so ever and now there is some American throwing money around luring them in. I was telling my fiance while we visited manila that there is no way that this would be acceptable in the states. Wow did I get attacked after posting my comment, saying I was insulting half of the VJ community and the comments just kept coming until I just laughed them off and didn't give a response to fuel the fire. Now its OK for you to do the same to Darren, because he doing the same thing that I was describing and your seeing the reality of it unfold here. Yes, I know there is a lot more to this story then just age, but man you love to mention it. lol

Hi Edrotar. I certainly have empathy for being the target of manipulation by people who just want to put you down and shame you out of jealousy, spite, or because they are just mean people. An age difference presents an opportunity for nasty people to attack.

People try to pretend the girl is a child. See how you selected the word "cradle" there. Look how you called it "luring" the girl too. She's a child victim. Pffft.

We also hear sometimes how the girl is nothing but a prostitute. Or a scammer luring the feeble old fool with her body. Also pffft to that.

All of this rubbish. Gretchen is an adult, and adults have rights. Same with Darren. We even have the right to be stupid. I exercise that right from time to time.

Darren,

Just get your finances together, set an amount you can afford to send back to help Gretchen's family. Hopefully you will come to your senses and let her either get a job or go to school to better herself. Once she is able to send her own money home she will feel like she is doing her part by helping her family back home without burdening you. As far as Gretchen goes dealing with her family back home, if she loves you then she will stay and if she doesn't love you enough then she will wish to be back home and take this a learning mistake. I really hope that doesn't happen, and you two can be the family both of you are dreaming of. I guess the slams against you are of your own doing and I'm hope you will never allow sharks in the water too feed off you again.

Actually there have been some helpful things said late in this thread, and this is one of them.

People are understandably caught up in the drama here. Some top flight stuff with incendiary language about tribalism, control to the point of pseudo-slavery, etc. So no reason to lock horns with people who are weary of the bizarre and hypocritical. One of the dis-services ignorance does is broadcast to others a misimpression about filippino culture. It is actually more diverse than US culture, and there are still tribes (eg Palawan, but even on Luzon over by Pinitubo too); an extremely conservative muslim culture (eg Minadnao and the Autonomous Region of Muslim Mindanao (ARMM)) and then of course modern metropolitan melting-pots (eg Cebu or Dumaguete) and you cannot make generalizations. NPA goons in the mountains of Kalinga province, MILF, Abu-Sayyef, blowing up Superferrys and all - there is a lot to know about in the Philippines of grave consequence.

When you have someone claiming extensive cultural knowledge and is representing things wrong, people get pretty hot about that. So I certainly empathize with that too.

[rlogan 2,036]

If you're focused on caring for your family in the U.S., how is your ex taking you to court over child support?

While this seems inconsistent in isolation, it is consistent when seen as a modus operandi.

[gretchen_darren 67]

geez, I was not saying all filipinos, not most filipinos. I was talking about her family and their village. ONLY. Nothing else and nowhere else. I have no idea how it could have been read otherwise.

Control. I have no idea how people got that. I have stated over and over and over. I want no control. I want to be the leader of my family.

As for the $20 issue, I stated I only had that until PAYDAY. Not that I was broke. I am working. and getting paid. Heck, I paid a $750 electric bill, dish network bill, phone bill, and bought food. What I was saying is, the trip cost me more then expected in unexpected expenses. I gave her $200 and it disappeared. Plus the party for leaving and renting a jeepney for her family to say goodbye at the airport. The first week, we did extremely well. Very well. The second week, it all went to hell in a hndabasket. It was not me trying to control anything but my budget. I knew I would need money back home. I do not have the luxury of paid time off like other people. So the trip cost me double.

The problem in other things is I sent her money to take care of her. I sent too much money, but I was never told it was too much. I was never told it was excessive. the family got used to me supporting her MIL did not think about when her daughter came to america to live and the money train would stop since I no longer need to support the daughter there. MIL went to buy paint for the house. right after that, there was flooding in the vilalge including their home. There was nothing I could do. I was still recovering here from the trip. I jsut had to look at Gretchen and say I wished she had paid attention to the weather. they had money to spend on hair, on paint, on furniture. Right now my focus is you here. I wish I could help, but you know htey had money to make it through this had they been patient. I told your dad I would not be sending money for a while. In truth, I sent them 160,000 php. If they had saved just some of it, they could have bought one or two or three boats by now.

As for my ex. She just wants money. she wants more child support. She wants to know where my money is. As long as I own the current home she left, my ex will try to financially ruin me. Just a fact a life. My ex is bitter and mean. She filed to take me back to court this year the day after my birthday. Happy birthday from you are going back to court again. I guess I know what my birthday present from my ex will be each year now. A filing going back to court for more child support, looking at my income, and trying to take the children away from me. the children wanat more time with me. The children llike Gretchen which makes my ex mad. Yes, they knew of the ex and the support. I have been dealing with Gretchen over my ex. I knew what I was coming home to. I jsut did not know how excessive things were in the money I was sending there. Now I know. Yes, I am upset. But nothing I can do now. I sent what I would have spent on her here. I do not regret what I sent. I do however, regret, they never told me what the extra money was spent on or how they spent it on things instead of tyring to help themselves step up in life to earn better income. It is the motivation I see. this is what is disturbing me the most. If the family really wanted to earn more, they could have put aside some money from what I sent and bought a boat, or other things. Instead the money was spent for things which improved their life, but still made them dependant on me. Trains do not always run, and are not always on the same time all of the time. This is what was come to be expected of me. No thought for tomorrow when the daughter left, just living for today. Now the daughter has left, and they arerealizing I know now what was going on. How much they put everything in jeporady, and how disgruntled I am. Not everyone is like that, not everyone lives that way. It is just I know now, and am taking my time in the marriage part of the visa now. Watching and learning. Yes, I love her. But I have already been through some hard times in my life. I am trying to be wiser. Attack me if you must, saying I am a control freak. But when you see things, and things hiddne, then being told there are "Spys" and people wanting to undermine the relationship, and then you find out what was going on??? how would you react??? Would you be as forgiving if you sent a lot of money and then find out it was way too excessive, and then find out, just a fraction of what you sent would have worked for the time you were apart. I sent her 70 times what her dad makes in a year or better. And I have no idea if they have the money or anything to show for it. It is not hte control, but the over indulgence in me just sending money when they needed which bothered me the most. No though of to my sacrifice here in order to keep on talking to her. that is why I am asking for advice. I am mad, upset, and quite frankly teed off. but I am trying to make it work. I found out just before I got there the 3rd time to bring her to the USA. You want to attack me and call me things. saying I am a control freak. just imagine how would feel finding out they are not asking for any amount of money, but fidnding out you were sending so much money and they di dnto do anything to help you out.

[Dan and Judy 614]

Right now, my ex is pissed over Gretchen and hauling me back to court. I have to take care of that issue now. and my ex does not even know I know yet. She thinks it is still a surprise.

Then to come back home, and have to hire a lawyer to deal with my ex again for child support and parenting time.

That's what Darren said about the ex wife, It could easily mean the ex is mad that she left him enough crumbs to go and get himself a cute young wife. And she doesn't want that cute young wife to have anything to do with her kids. So she's going for more money and trying to cut off visitation. as opposed to Darren being 6 months behind on child support

Edited October 7, 2011 by Dan and Judy

[Dan and Judy 614]

Ok I see Darren clarified the situation just before my post. working and posting at the same time is fun

[sunandmoon 450]

Dareen, the sooner you can accept you are the biggest contributing factor to the financial mess with the inlaws, the better off you'll be...

[Laser1 63]

MIL went to buy paint for the house. right after that, there was flooding in the vilalge including their home. There was nothing I could do. I was still recovering here from the trip. I jsut had to look at Gretchen and say I wished she had paid attention to the weather.

That is really your MIL and FIL's issue, not your's. The flooding would have happened anyway, even if you had never met them. You did not help or hurt them, so it is just water under the bridge. The house paint should be treated as a nice gift from you that they can see every day and enjoy.

[Loolie 56]

i dont think this is more on money issues anymore, i think its more of the trust issue now bcoz gretchen didnt tell him the truth. Gretchen secretly gave the money to the mother and whatever. Thats why he is trying to be the leader of the family bcoz he wants to know that gretchen wont do that anymore, which is not impossible to happen again bcoz blood is thicker than water. Everything that happened was both your fault (darren and gretchen). You just need to accept it and move on. I know its hard to accept that the one you love and her family made you look stupid ah but hey atleast you got gretchen now. She's yours now and its payback time?? oops... hehehhehe

Edited October 7, 2011 by bmtrrbt

[Crashed~N2~Me 970]

Control. I have no idea how people got that. I have stated over and over and over. I want no control.

Please see your OP. You wrote...

i told Gretchen "your parents no longer control you. I do.

The first week, we did extremely well. Very well. The second week, it all went to hell in a hndabasket. It was not me trying to control anything but my budget.

This is the second time you stated trouble began in week 2. Please expound.

The problem in other things is I sent her money to take care of her. I sent too much money, but I was never told it was too much. I was never told it was excessive.

How did you decide how much to send?

I jsut had to look at Gretchen and say I wished she had paid attention to the weather.

Did you say that with a straight face? I bet that was accepted well.

I jsut did not know how excessive things were in the money I was sending there. Now I know. Yes, I am upset. But nothing I can do now. I sent what I would have spent on her here. I do not regret what I sent. I do however, regret, they never told me what the extra money was spent on or how they spent it on things instead of tyring to help themselves step up in life to earn better income. It is the motivation I see. this is what is disturbing me the most. If the family really wanted to earn more, they could have put aside some money from what I sent and bought a boat, or other things. Instead the money was spent for things which improved their life, but still made them dependant on me. Trains do not always run, and are not always on the same time all of the time. This is what was come to be expected of me. No thought for tomorrow when the daughter left, just living for today. Now the daughter has left, and they arerealizing I know now what was going on. How much they put everything in jeporady, and how disgruntled I am. Not everyone is like that, not everyone lives that way. It is just I know now, and am taking my time in the marriage part of the visa now. Watching and learning. Yes, I love her. But I have already been through some hard times in my life. I am trying to be wiser. Attack me if you must, saying I am a control freak. But when you see things, and things hiddne, then being told there are "Spys" and people wanting to undermine the relationship, and then you find out what was going on??? how would you react??? Would you be as forgiving if you sent a lot of money and then find out it was way too excessive, and then find out, just a fraction of what you sent would have worked for the time you were apart. I sent her 70 times what her dad makes in a year or better. And I have no idea if they have the money or anything to show for it. It is not hte control, but the over indulgence in me just sending money when they needed which bothered me the most. No though of to my sacrifice here in order to keep on talking to her. that is why I am asking for advice. I am mad, upset, and quite frankly teed off. but I am trying to make it work. I found out just before I got there the 3rd time to bring her to the USA. You want to attack me and call me things. saying I am a control freak. just imagine how would feel finding out they are not asking for any amount of money, but fidnding out you were sending so much money and they di dnto do anything to help you out.

I started bolding specific sentences to make a point but...the whole paragraph can be used.

Darren, I think you should stop trying to control other people and focus on controlling yourself. Read what you wrote. Can't you see? Your frustration stems from your inability to control your fiancee and your new family. It has also made you a victim of manipulation and deceit. When you decide to stop expecting to or trying to control other people...you will be free from regret and resentment. Set your (healthy) boundries. Consult your fiancee and decide what you 2 will and won't do. (if) The others don't like it. Flip 'em the bird (figuratively speaking) and move on.

It is just I know now, and am taking my time in the marriage part of the visa

Sooo... she's really hassling you about the money... huh?

Edited October 7, 2011 by Crashed~N2~Me

[Moomin 292]

Hei Darren(and Gretchen),

The minute you give anybody money or a funny hat they'll probably say thank you and decide for themselves what to do with it, and unless you specifically tell them "here's for school/the flood/put the hat on your head" then you can't make them pay for your actions. Either stop giving them money or tell them specifically what they need to spend it on but that is control which you claim not to want. It's not their fault that they weren't born as mind readers, and that they're not on the same page as you. It takes time and effort - the same with your future wife for her to adapt to the American culture and not to you alone.

I have no idea how it could have been read otherwise.

--

Control. I have no idea how people got that. I have stated over and over and over. I want no control. I want to be the leader of my family.

--

I gave her $200 and it disappeared.

--

I sent too much money, but I was never told it was too much. I was never told it was excessive.

[Tahoma 2,292]

geez, I was not saying all filipinos, not most filipinos. I was talking about her family and their village. ONLY. Nothing else and nowhere else. I have no idea how it could have been read otherwise.

Dr. Jekyll, meet Mr. Hyde:

The problem is the teaching in the schools. the teaching of finanaces. those are not taught in the school or at home there. Have it, spend it. Not a way to live well. Need money, or have no money, get a loan or credit to make it through until you again. Be in debt. You have to focus on how to get ahead. Saving money is something most americans do naturally. We learn at a yoong age. It is a difference in culture. I am dealing with curtural issues. the american idea and the filipino idea.

[Crashed~N2~Me 970]

Dr. Jekyll, meet Mr. Hyde:

He certainly does a lot of backtracking and double talk.