help with mama

[rlogan 2,036]

You've completely pulled off the bait n switch. van with the 'free candy' sign has wilted broccoli inside.

Too funny. But sad.

Not just with her, but us too. Because in the beginning I had the impression someone was rolling in money - great job; helping everyone else out...

By reading the whole thread where the most recent information has been revealed (partly) it looks about as bad as you framed it: not even making the obligations with a prior marriage? We don't know, but it looks a lot more likely than it did in the beginning.

I hope when the time comes, Gretchen pulls off a successful VAWA.

Who knows what the full story is, or the other side of the story or whatever. The one thing not to do is underestimate Gretchen.

[AmyWrites 593]

Sounds to me like you wanted to get a 19 year old near-slave, and to do so you tried to impress her with money and gifts and so on, therefore getting her family on board with shipping her off to a foreign country while she still hasn't had time to mold her own life, and that now you're shocked it's backfired.

She's 19. Chances are, regardless of where she's from, she will NOT have the same ideas of "budgeting" as you do (but if you're broke and spent so much money, I guess you don't either?). It also means that her mother's influence over her will still be very strong, and that will only increase as she needs help on things only a mother would know (raising children and so on).

Maybe us liberals, as you self-righteously put it, don't 100% agree with a traditional man works, wife stays at home scenario. But your fellow conservatives would agree that it's better that she works, therefore making your family more money, getting rid of debt, and not ever becoming a burden of the state? Maybe you could both learn to manage your money.

Again, she's 19. She doesn't know what she wants, she only knows what everyone else in her "tribe" (personally I'd never marry a man who insinuated my people were less civilized and more barbaric than his but I'm sure she doesn't know you think this way) and you expect of her. If you have any love and respect for her, you'd let her work a bit, be a housewife for a bit, etc. Let her see what SHE wants, because if she gets pressured into something and realizes she hates it and feels trapped, neither of you will be happy.

[Laser1 63]

Again, she's 19. She doesn't know what she wants, ...

With due respect, I think that there are other factors more significant here than age: Education, wealth/income, family environment, and personality are some. The main concern is that Gretchen has freedom to grow and make decisions. That would still be important if she was 40.

Edited October 3, 2011 by Laser1

[spikedog 2]

I have read this and other threads and it makes me very anxious. Our time is getting short and I would love to be with my girl at her interview and bring her home, but I can't spare the money. As much as it bothers me to be away from her, she will have to go it alone for her interview and travel to her POE. She's a big girl (31), so I think she can handle it.

One of my rules about my journey is that it was to be funded only from cash. No credit cards or borrowing involved. I had to draw the line some places and it lead to a few discussion during our journey. When I was visiting, we did very modest things, but we enjoyed ourselves. I did stay at her parent's with her and paid a little "rent" and bought food to defray the costs. My girl (and her family) know(s) that I am not rich and want us to be stable financially when she gets here.

I hope everything works out for G&D in the end.

God Bless,

jim

[dirtsquirter 7]

Wait until Gretchen grows up...

[Fandango 1,439]

Who knows what the full story is, or the other side of the story or whatever. The one thing not to do is underestimate Gretchen.

I hope I have. I am mostly just sad for this young woman.

[Fandango 1,439]

Sounds to me like you wanted to get a 19 year old near-slave, and to do so you tried to impress her with money and gifts and so on, therefore getting her family on board with shipping her off to a foreign country while she still hasn't had time to mold her own life, and that now you're shocked it's backfired.

She's 19. Chances are, regardless of where she's from, she will NOT have the same ideas of "budgeting" as you do (but if you're broke and spent so much money, I guess you don't either?). It also means that her mother's influence over her will still be very strong, and that will only increase as she needs help on things only a mother would know (raising children and so on).

Maybe us liberals, as you self-righteously put it, don't 100% agree with a traditional man works, wife stays at home scenario. But your fellow conservatives would agree that it's better that she works, therefore making your family more money, getting rid of debt, and not ever becoming a burden of the state? Maybe you could both learn to manage your money.

Again, she's 19. She doesn't know what she wants, she only knows what everyone else in her "tribe" (personally I'd never marry a man who insinuated my people were less civilized and more barbaric than his but I'm sure she doesn't know you think this way) and you expect of her. If you have any love and respect for her, you'd let her work a bit, be a housewife for a bit, etc. Let her see what SHE wants, because if she gets pressured into something and realizes she hates it and feels trapped, neither of you will be happy.

I'll go one further. I am conservative leaning. I believe it's right for a woman to stay home with the kids, if financially possible. Actually, in this economic climate, I believe in one parent - be that the father or the mother - staying home with the child. I believe that it's unfortunate that parents mostly have to make child care arrangements so soon after giving birth, and mostly miss the little milestones and miss being the biggest influence in a child's life. I believe that tending the home/caring for the children is equally as important (if not more so) as going out to work; and if you are part of a strong team, one should stay home while the other goes out to work. Division of labor, you know. Don't get me wrong, I work part-time and am self employed, so most of my work is now done from the home, and I do love having a diversion from my child at times. My work though, is partially my identity. I like my job. Sometimes I miss being able to do it full time. But we had a child, and he is more important than anything else. He is my child; I am the one who is going to raise him everyday. Not my parents, not day care. Luckily, it's financially feasible for my husband and I to do so.

Saying all that, even though this is what I believe, I would never ever ever be ok with staying home while living check to check. It's not a strong financial plan. It's also quite unwise. And tbh, if there are no kids in the home, I feel having a 'housewife' is superfluous, and goes back to what I see as a control situation. IMO, the best way for any immigrant to acclimate to his/her new environment would be a part time job, where not only is there a financial benefit; it would help the immigrant - in this case, Gretchen - have extra cash to send home (as previously PROMISED), but also to help her grow and thrive as a young woman in her new homeland. Where she can make friends, be social, and develop outside interests other than just waiting for Darren while holding his slippers and a martini. I will be the first one to admit that I am speculating from limited information, but I feel confident in my assumptions from all I have read from Darren. My assumption is, he wants that CONTROL he spoke of earlier. I think he's afraid that now that she's in 'the promised land', she will either get 'Americanized' by realizing what she signed on for, or she will develop interests which don't include him. So she's the bird in the gilded cage right now. Which makes me very sad for both of them, actually.

[thekfc 26]

When I first went to the PI I gave my wife's nieces MP3 players. The older nephews (in their 20's) told me what about us? They already got stuff but they also wanted an MP3 player. I look them straight in the face & told them that I do not buy gifts for or give gifts to males.

Me & my wife had a talk and we agreed on the following (my wife was more than relieved that I brought it up):

We will send gift when we deem required & not when they want it.

We will send gifts we think that they need & not what they want.

We have only sent birthday gifts for the younger ones (under 19)- 18th birthday is very important for the girls.

When we send items (balikbayan boxes), we label some items as to who gets what.

We send the BB to her sister (who is a no nonsense lady) and she distributes as needed.

The only time we have sent money was for her mother's birthday (her father is decease).

My wife have been here since February of this year & the only request that we have had so far are:

1. New cell phone for the one of her niece (I initiated that request - her current cell is being held up by tape & I always kid her about it) .

2. Vitamin E lotion.

3. A new watch.

4. A new pair of shoes for graduation for one of the nieces - we will sent a pair for all the kids.

5. A tool kit for her brother who takes care of the family farms.

6. A laptop for one of the nephews in college (he actually saved up and wanted to send us the money to buy a good one for him but we will suprise for x-mas.

My wife is the youngest and she have 4 sisters & 2 brothers - they all work along with the some of the husbands/wifes, so we do not have most of the dramas that others have. Plus in the beginning I told my wife that I was "poor".

The only people in her family that I am weary about are the brother-in-laws. I asked my wife what if her BIL made some requests. Her response was "they were surviving before I came along so they should continue to survive as if I am not there".

Right now, we have 5 balikbayan boxes getting ready to send.

[rlogan 2,036]

I'll go one further. I am conservative leaning. I believe it's right for a woman to stay home with the kids, if financially possible. Actually, in this economic climate, I believe in one parent - be that the father or the mother - staying home with the child. I believe that it's unfortunate that parents mostly have to make child care arrangements so soon after giving birth, and mostly miss the little milestones and miss being the biggest influence in a child's life. I believe that tending the home/caring for the children is equally as important (if not more so) as going out to work; and if you are part of a strong team, one should stay home while the other goes out to work. Division of labor, you know.

This is so true! My God, just to work from here: commuting cost, extra insurance, child care cost, the taxes on the money earned - there isn't enough gain in working unless she were a trial lawyer or surgeon. We see people killing themselves doing just that, and they are so cranky with stress.

Saying all that, even though this is what I believe, I would never ever ever be ok with staying home while living check to check. It's not a strong financial plan.

It's living in terror if you ask me. I felt that terror when my own lovely teen and family pulled manipulative stunts with me for money, and we had to deal with it before marriage. It was just in the beginning, we worked through it, and it's over.

[BJZags 17]

This is so true! My God, just to work from here: commuting cost, extra insurance, child care cost, the taxes on the money earned - there isn't enough gain in working unless she were a trial lawyer or surgeon. We see people killing themselves doing just that, and they are so cranky with stress.

Unless the child care provider is working a minimum wage job, this statement is about the craziest thing I've heard. What extra insurance? Lot of the child care cost is written-off at the end of the year. I'm guessing most dual-income families wouldn't see their tax-rate increase.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

I'll go one further. I am conservative leaning. I believe it's right for a woman to stay home with the kids, if financially possible. Actually, in this economic climate, I believe in one parent - be that the father or the mother - staying home with the child. I believe that it's unfortunate that parents mostly have to make child care arrangements so soon after giving birth, and mostly miss the little milestones and miss being the biggest influence in a child's life. I believe that tending the home/caring for the children is equally as important (if not more so) as going out to work; and if you are part of a strong team, one should stay home while the other goes out to work. Division of labor, you know. Don't get me wrong, I work part-time and am self employed, so most of my work is now done from the home, and I do love having a diversion from my child at times. My work though, is partially my identity. I like my job. Sometimes I miss being able to do it full time. But we had a child, and he is more important than anything else. He is my child; I am the one who is going to raise him everyday. Not my parents, not day care. Luckily, it's financially feasible for my husband and I to do so.

Saying all that, even though this is what I believe, I would never ever ever be ok with staying home while living check to check. It's not a strong financial plan. It's also quite unwise. And tbh, if there are no kids in the home, I feel having a 'housewife' is superfluous, and goes back to what I see as a control situation. IMO, the best way for any immigrant to acclimate to his/her new environment would be a part time job, where not only is there a financial benefit; it would help the immigrant - in this case, Gretchen - have extra cash to send home (as previously PROMISED), but also to help her grow and thrive as a young woman in her new homeland. Where she can make friends, be social, and develop outside interests other than just waiting for Darren while holding his slippers and a martini. I will be the first one to admit that I am speculating from limited information, but I feel confident in my assumptions from all I have read from Darren. My assumption is, he wants that CONTROL he spoke of earlier. I think he's afraid that now that she's in 'the promised land', she will either get 'Americanized' by realizing what she signed on for, or she will develop interests which don't include him. So she's the bird in the gilded cage right now. Which makes me very sad for both of them, actually.

You didn't help your case by saying you love taking care of the baby, but you miss your work life.

[Fandango 1,439]

You didn't help your case by saying you love taking care of the baby, but you miss your work life.

What case is that? It is what it is. Both are true statements, and I don't believe I'm unique in feeling this way.

Glad it somehow amused you, though.

People are multidimensional, you know that, right?

Edited October 4, 2011 by Anita Cocktail

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

People are multidimensional, you know that, right?

Not in Darren's world, they aren't.

[rlogan 2,036]

Unless the child care provider is working a minimum wage job, this statement is about the craziest thing I've heard. What extra insurance? Lot of the child care cost is written-off at the end of the year. I'm guessing most dual-income families wouldn't see their tax-rate increase.

That's because you have no idea what living in a cabin in the woods of interior Alaska is like, nor our tax situation, nor the educational program for the children.

We drive less than 5,000 miles a year. It would take four times that much just commuting to work, which would by federal mileage cost estimate add on the order of ten thousand dollars a year to expenses. Alaska at fifty below zero is way more expensive than the US averages. You have to keep your car heated, which adds over a hundred a month right there six months a year. To earn that much would require more like fifteen thousand pre-tax accounting for payroll tax and the income tax. It would also shift us into a higher tax bracket at a higher marginal income tax rate, because it is on top of my income.

We'd have to insure another vehicle, we would have to quintuple the annual mileage, which would add to the premium. Alaska is about the highest cost state to insure vehicles. I would also have to strongly consider life insurance because commuting every day on icy roads with one-ton moose crossing regularly is dangerous enough with these kids depending on her. There's going to be accidents, absolute fact. We see as many as five cars off the road on a bad day going in. I go off. We carry chains, shovels, have winches, and people stop to help you. But you have no idea what we're up against. After forty below zero, we don't move. No machines, no vehicles - it's just too hard on them and way too dangerous if you break down.

It is more expensive for everything in town - eating especially. The daycare charges are not the only cost. The transportation back and forth - now add that time on top of my wife's commute, plus the milage, and the kids will get sick far more often being exposed to every bug going on in town, so our medical costs are going to increase. We're talking on the order of twenty thousand a year she would have to earn for us to break even, and the family would lose her for over fifty hours a week including the commute. So what if she makes twice that - it isn't worth the wage slavery.

But being stupid about money isn't even close to what's really important.

My first son is not even two years old and he almost has the entire phonetic alphabet down already. He has a huge vocabulary. He was standing upright, holding himself with his arms at two months old. Walking around the house holding on to our hands by three months old. The second one is way behind him physically but he simply blossomed later and is taking off like a rocket ship now. The older boy can do pull-ups and has been working on wrestling and striking skills. They both pound on the piano.

By not working, it freed us up to read the best peer-reviewed literature on advanced childhood development, so that's what we (she) does. For example Phil Zelazo at the McGill institute and Karen Adolph at New York University. We follow their work closely and incredibly they were gracious enough to correspond with us, sending us a lot of other pertinent peer-reviewed publications. Dr. Zelazo reviewed video we sent him and commented - can you imagine how stupid it would be by comparison to have our children in the hands of day-care flunkies? I don't know how far ahead of the pack these kids are going to be, but my brother and his wife started way later than we did. Both top flight academicians and they homeschooled. Their son went to college on a full academic scholarship, double majored early, and is now working making megabucks in computer engineering. A world class performance pianist too. I am not saying we can do that, but we have good reason to have high expectations if we follow a good program.

They are not exceptional children. Above average but not special. They are in an exceptional program. If my wife had to commute to work every day and we did daycare - we would give up that future. So tell me I'm crazy now. Crazy like a fox maybe.

[Fandango 1,439]

Not in Darren's world, they aren't.

And that has what to do with you lolling at what I said?

Seriously, I'm all ears as to what point you were initially trying to make.

RLogan - I'm really interested to hear where the best source is for some of these publications. If you'd like to send me a few links to what you think are the most helpful articles you've read, I'd really be appreciative!