News from the Middle East

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Yet a regular old truck driver is capable of it.

I don't know how old you are, but you are hardly regular

[scandal 951]

Why should Palestinians bear the burden of Jews receiving reparations from other countries?

There was a regional conflict. We are now looking for a regional comprehensive solution.

Look, we can triangulate this: have Yemen and Iraq (the two countries with the largest pre-1948 Jewish populations who abandoned property) send $X to Israel to compensate those people for their losses. Then have Israel send $Y to the Palestinians dispossessed in 1948. Or, if $X>$Y, have Yemen/Iraq send compensate the Palestinians directly for the full balance $Y. Or if $X<$Y, then let Yemen/Iraq send $X to the Palestinians and Israel should make up the remaining $Y-$X.

Since Yemen is a poor basketcase country and Iraq for the time being isn't much better (until perhaps they get some oil revenue), it's probably Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States that need to step up here in the quest of a true regional comprehensive solution.

[luckytxn 2,264]

I don't know how old you are, but you are hardly regular

Regular now but a few months ago.................

[luckytxn 2,264]

There was a regional conflict. We are now looking for a regional comprehensive solution.

Look, we can triangulate this: have Yemen and Iraq (the two countries with the largest pre-1948 Jewish populations who abandoned property) send $X to Israel to compensate those people for their losses. Then have Israel send $Y to the Palestinians dispossessed in 1948. Or, if $X>$Y, have Yemen/Iraq send compensate the Palestinians directly for the full balance $Y. Or if $X<$Y, then let Yemen/Iraq send $X to the Palestinians and Israel should make up the remaining $Y-$X.

Since Yemen is a poor basketcase country and Iraq for the time being isn't much better (until perhaps they get some oil revenue), it's probably Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States that need to step up here in the quest of a true regional comprehensive solution.

So pretty much no deal unless all the Arab states come and pay Jews what they want?

No talk to Palestinians?

Edited September 20, 2011 by luckytxn

[scandal 951]

Back to topic ...

Why does finding peace in that part of the world feel so hopeless?

Why would a man like this be a target of violence?

A pious man, a religious man of faith, a man of peace, a statesman who was pursuing a better future for his countrymen.

Who would want to end the life of such a man?

Why would a society tolerate extremists who do such things in their midst? Sanction them, fund them, harbor them?

Where is the tolerance -- never mind between Christian and Muslim, Muslim and Jew, Arab and Israeli, Afghan and American --- never mind that --- where is the tolerance for different political points of view between Muslim countrymen in the same nation?? I am despondent when I see such senseless things.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/afghanistan/story/2011-09-20/afghan-former-president-slain/50477270/1

Slain Afghan ex-president sought peace

KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) – Former Afghan President Burhanuddin Rabbani sought to bridge Afghanistan's divide, but instead ended up one of the conflict's many victims. The former leader, fighter and finally peace envoy, whose shifting fortunes and loyalties matched the complexity of his splintered nation, was assassinated by a suicide bomber on Tuesday. He was about 70 years old.

The assassination marked another dark chapter in a war that the U.S.-led coalition is preparing to exit, with international troops set to leave Afghanistan by 2014. For the past year, Rabbani had been in charge of a government peace council that tried to facilitate contacts with Taliban insurgents. But the council failed to make headway as warring sides and disparate groups maneuvered for an edge in the long-running conflict.

Rabbani was assassinated Tuesday by a suicide bomber concealing explosives in his turban, a tactic that has been used with lethal effect against other Afghan officials.

[scandal 951]

So pretty much no deal unless all the Arab states come and pay Jews what they want?

No talk to Palestinians?

I did not say that.

I, personally, believe we should go into negotiations with no preconceived notions, with everything on the table, with no preconditions. We should do it. Now. Right now.

For that matter, that's precisely what the Israeli government stance is, the Netanyahu government stance. He's invited Abbas repeatedly to sit down to talks immediately, even prior to the UN voting later this week. Put it all on the table.

The Abbas stance has been no negotiations until Israel stops creating new settlements. I wish Bibi would stop building settlements, but I can't tell Abbas and the PA when and how to negotiate. Fair enough, that's their right. But it also means no talks, by the choice of the PA.

Now as to a deal, let's talk and see what comes out. Your wording is troubling to me. It brings up the old stereotypes of Jews as money-oriented. I said that I feel Jews evicted from their homes should be compensated. I also said I feel Palestinians evicted should be compensated. Why are you twisting that even handled language to make it sound like Jews want to be paid off for a deal when that's not what I said at all?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I definitely respect scandal's opinions regarding Israel, he certainly is not a hawk but instead has a moderate view based on the facts on the ground, yet in many threads I feel he gets treated as if he is an extremist or something.

Sousuke, I'm the only Palestinian posting on this board. Scandal refuses to respond to my questions or comments because he says I'm a terrorist. He denounced me as a terrorist simply because I disagreed with him.

He's certainly free to decide who he wishes to respond to and who not, but, I'm also free to take that as prejudice and a signal that he isn't interested in engaging someone who has a direct stake by virtue of her displaced resident ancestors; someone who demands the right of return. At the same time, he attempts authority by claiming his ties to the region via his immigrant family. I fail to see how he wants an honest outcome or an honest debate if he is so sensitive that a mere disagreement cuts off all discussion.

So, if I consider him to be an extremist and a coward, this is why.

[luckytxn 2,264]

I did not say that.

I, personally, believe we should go into negotiations with no preconceived notions, with everything on the table, with no preconditions. We should do it. Now. Right now.

For that matter, that's precisely what the Israeli government stance is, the Netanyahu government stance. He's invited Abbas repeatedly to sit down to talks immediately, even prior to the UN voting later this week. Put it all on the table.

The Abbas stance has been no negotiations until Israel stops creating new settlements. I wish Bibi would stop building settlements, but I can't tell Abbas and the PA when and how to negotiate. Fair enough, that's their right. But it also means no talks, by the choice of the PA.

Now as to a deal, let's talk and see what comes out. Your wording is troubling to me. It brings up the old stereotypes of Jews as money-oriented. I said that I feel Jews evicted from their homes should be compensated. I also said I feel Palestinians evicted should be compensated. Why are you twisting that even handled language to make it sound like Jews want to be paid off for a deal when that's not what I said at all?

Never meant that or even thought of it that way but if you feel like I am the type of person that would stoop that low then I will ask no more questions. Just was curious was all.

[scandal 951]

Never meant that or even thought of it that way but if you feel like I am the type of person that would stoop that low then I will ask no more questions. Just was curious was all.

If you did not intend that, that's fine. I'm sorry for misinterpreting. I said that I found your choice of words "troubling". Meaning, I was looking for you to clarify, which you've done.

As to how low you might stoop in a debate, LuckyTxn, oh I know very well.

You'll stoop low enough to refer to people like me, Democrats who support our elected President, as "Socialists", "sheep", "morons", "idiots" and "stupid". You know how to use invective and rhetoric just fine, when it suits you. I'm glad to see you clean up your act here, and it's nice to have a civil conversation with you. But don't think I've forgotten the uncivil language you and others use.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

If you did not intend that, that's fine. I'm sorry for misinterpreting. I said that I found your choice of words "troubling". Meaning, I was looking for you to clarify, which you've done.

As to how low you might stoop in a debate, LuckyTxn, oh I know very well.

You'll stoop low enough to refer to people like me, Democrats who support our elected President, as "Socialists", "sheep", "morons", "idiots" and "stupid". You know how to use invective and rhetoric just fine, when it suits you. I'm glad to see you clean up your act here, and it's nice to have a civil conversation with you. But don't think I've forgotten the uncivil language you and others use.

You misinterpret a lot. Gee, why don't you put luckytxn on your ignore, too? He seems to qualify about as much as I did.

Well, except, he's not an Ay-rab like I am.

Edited September 20, 2011 by Sofiyya

[luckytxn 2,264]

If you did not intend that, that's fine. I'm sorry for misinterpreting. I said that I found your choice of words "troubling". Meaning, I was looking for you to clarify, which you've done.

As to how low you might stoop in a debate, LuckyTxn, oh I know very well.

You'll stoop low enough to refer to people like me, Democrats who support our elected President, as "Socialists", "sheep", "morons", "idiots" and "stupid". You know how to use invective and rhetoric just fine, when it suits you. I'm glad to see you clean up your act here, and it's nice to have a civil conversation with you. But don't think I've forgotten the uncivil language you and others use.

Since you can't separate the topics then no need to go on. Thanks for answering what few things you have. Nice to hear your side.

[웃 910]

Sousuke, I'm the only Palestinian posting on this board. Scandal refuses to respond to my questions or comments because he says I'm a terrorist. He denounced me as a terrorist simply because I disagreed with him.

He's certainly free to decide who he wishes to respond to and who not, but, I'm also free to take that as prejudice and a signal that he isn't interested in engaging someone who has a direct stake by virtue of her displaced resident ancestors; someone who demands the right of return. At the same time, he attempts authority by claiming his ties to the region via his immigrant family. I fail to see how he wants an honest outcome or an honest debate if he is so sensitive that a mere disagreement cuts off all discussion.

So, if I consider him to be an extremist and a coward, this is why.

My ancestors lost their land in Poland. They were either shot dead on the spot or taken to concentration camps for insane periods of time, tortured, starved, and incinerated.

I have the paperwork on my grandfathers 2-story home but I don't think it is possible to get it back. I tried years ago to contact a lawyer but I think after so many decades it's a lost cause.

For a while I was under the impression that my grandpa 'only' spent a few months, maybe 6 tops in a concentration camp. When I asked him - and he told me it was 2 years I was shocked. He didn't hold a grudge. Was a very happy "camper". Why you so mad?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I didn't start a thread to complain about what people post about. That's the guy you should be asking why he's so mad that he feels a need to try to control the interests, beliefs and comments of P&R posters via passive-aggressive means.

I am one of millions who assert a right to land still in dispute. I'm sorry about your ancestors, but the two situations are not analogous.

My ancestors lost their land in Poland. They were either shot dead on the spot or taken to concentration camps for insane periods of time, tortured, starved, and incinerated.

I have the paperwork on my grandfathers 2-story home but I don't think it is possible to get it back. I tried years ago to contact a lawyer but I think after so many decades it's a lost cause.

For a while I was under the impression that my grandpa 'only' spent a few months, maybe 6 tops in a concentration camp. When I asked him - and he told me it was 2 years I was shocked. He didn't hold a grudge. Was a very happy "camper". Why you so mad?

[luckytxn 2,264]

You misinterpret a lot. Gee, why don't you put luckytxn on your ignore, too? He seems to qualify about as much as I did.

Well, except, he's not an Ay-rab like I am.

Guess you asked too many questions too.

I just honestly wanted his views. At least you and WoM are patient enough to help me undrstand. Thanks.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Guess you asked too many questions too.

I just honestly wanted his views. At least you and WoM are patient enough to help me undrstand. Thanks.

Anytime, bro. Anytime. Knowledge is power.