ethical dilemma

[doneanddusted 7]

1. First and most importantly, your child. Do you truly beleive that your child would be better off without their father? This is a very serious thing to consider. Your feelings or hurt should not become more import than the landcape you are carving for your childs life with the actions you are now considering. Whatever people do to each other, children must not suffer the consequences of their parents broken heart.

I completely agree with you here, and no, I don't believe she would be better off without him as things stand now. Separating them without a really good reason (one that a court would agree with) would be unfair to the child, and that's not where we are. I am not trying to get him deported. I do not plan to try to move her away from her father, even as far as the next town. She's enrolled in the PIAP because I just can't take a chance that he may try to take her to his non-Hague country without my consent, as remote as that chance may be. I'm doing what I can to encourage a close relationship between them. We even spend time together as a "family," though I'm watching closely to be sure his foolish personal decisions don't impact her in a negative way because I don't trust his judgment even though I'm sure he loves her. He has a 10-year card. He's here for good unless he does something really stupid, and I won't have any part in that one way or the other.

My concern is that he had mentioned trying to set his sister up with a marriage for papers, and suddenly she's apparently engaged to a friend of his here, and a distant relative at that. What I've been trying to decide is whether I should let USCIS/DOS/ICE know what little I do know so they can factor that into the investigation of his sister and/or his "future second wife" (if he goes through with that) before granting them spousal visas. If they decide there's no there there, that's fine; they will have done their job, and I will have fulfilled my obligation. Frankly, I doubt what I know will have much bearing if he petitions a wife in the future. I don't think he's sincere because he's making promises to several foreign women while continuing to play around with Americans. But infidelity doesn't automatically equal fraud. That's true in my case as well. As I said, I'll probably never know for sure.

[mmstompin 4]

Do what is right. If you have information that having withheld could be used against you, then it is best to disclose it NOW. (Your safety and freedom far more outweigh the outcome of your estranged spouses in regards to your child). I would let the authorities know what you know and believe...leave the investigation up to them. In the end, God will expose the truth!

[In a tizzy 7]

I am so sorry for all your trouble! What has been done to you will be done 10,000 times more to him after he faces his judgement day.

I would recommend contacting USCIS for potential fraud. Get all the information in writing (emails) for evidence. I have no other better advice, but to chin up and move upward.

E

[rlogan 2,036]

You seem to be prettty level-headed. It is a cost/benefit thing where you know better than we do. If a small amount of checking puts evidence of fraud into ICE's hands, well that's one thing. If you have to give up your life playing detective - forget it. You can't get wrapped up in it. You seem to be putting the daughter first so your priorities are in order.

[Fandango 1,439]

First of all, my heart goes out to you, and it must be such a painful situation to deal with.

However, I don't think you have anything really concrete to submit to ICE. You have a hearsay conversation from several months ago, and that's it. Yes, there might be a pattern with all of his siblings. But remember when you yourself were going through the process...couldn't that somehow be 'explained away'?

What concerns me most is that if you do contact USCIS/DOS/ICE, and somehow it gets back to him/his sister that someone has lodged concerns...of course they will know it's you. And if that comes to pass, the civil relationship you have with him/them for your daughter will deteriorate...and it's much better for her sake for you to be friendly with him. Because you have more control over the situation if you're friendly. Remember, keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.

Edited September 20, 2011 by Anita Cocktail

[doneanddusted 7]

You've said what I've been thinking all day, about what would happen if she was denied and a lawyer put in a FOIA request. have no real proof beyond, as you said, an old conversation and patterns within the family. I don't even know whether she'll go through with the marriage. She's very attached to her mom.

I'm going to watch and wait for now. Their surname is very uncommon here. If the government chooses to investigate, it won't be difficult, though I don't think he's kept up with his change of address. I have kept up with mine. I think they can probably learn as much without my help as they can with it, and I'll tell the truth if asked.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I'm a longtime member and consider many of you good friends, but I need some anonymity in this case. I'll try to make it brief, and I don't know whether I've put this in the right place, so organizers, please move it as appropriate.

My husband came here on a spousal visa from a "high-fraud" country. He is now a LPR, and we are no longer together. We have a young daughter. I'll probably never know for certain whether I was used for papers or not. Some things I have discovered since the split lead me to believe it's likely, and I guess it's human nature to assume certain things in certain cases. I'm moving on with my own life as best I can, and I'm well aware of the obligations of the I-864. As things are going, I don't expect to be bound by that much longer. He has siblings who moved to Europe on spousal visas after he came here, and I have my doubts about the validity of at least one of those marriages, but that's not my business; it's only relevant because there's a pattern within his family, for whatever that's worth. The previous generation seems to have done something similar, though I don't know those details, so I can only speculate.

However, I've learned some other things recently, and I don't know whether I should pass this information along or let sleeping dogs lie. My husband has talked for years about bringing his sister here, trying to get her a student visa or whatnot, but he's never attempted it. A couple years ago, before we split, he mentioned outright that he had a friend from his country now living in another state who might consider marrying her for papers. I told him that would be fraud, that it could get both the guy and his sister in a world of trouble, and that I didn't want to hear any more about any such idea. He said no more to me about it. Now I have learned that the sister is engaged to a man in the U.S. and that they'd probably move to my state once she immigrated. I am not at all sure it's the same guy or even the same state because I didn't make a detailed note of the conversation and simply can't remember. However, it rings some bells. I'm told it's not for papers, but I no longer believe I'm getting the truth about anything. I don't know whether I should notify anyone about this if they do start the process. I don't want to act out of revenge, even unconsciously. And even though we don't speak now, she and I always got along well. If it's the real deal, I don't want to be responsible for keeping her from her husband (I would be very surprised if they went for a K-1 because of tradition). But if it's fraud, then it's rippling out from my own situation, and that bothers me, and a part of me just wants those ripples to stop in their tracks. I guess my own hurt still messes with my head, so I'm coming here for some objective input since I can't be sure I'm objective.

And on a related note, I believe my soon-to-be-ex is lining up a woman (or several) back home to marry and bring here once we're divorced and he's naturalized (though he hasn't stopped "dating" all the "local talent," but maybe she'll put up with that??). Again, I don't want my revenge monster calling the shots here. I don't know whether to drop a dime to ICE on this one either, if he goes through with filing. I just want to do the right thing, whatever that is. I suppose if his history of the relationship with the new homegirl mentions exactly WHEN they met online and USCIS notices it was months before our divorce, that might garner a second look or two, so maybe that's best just left alone from my end. I just don't know. And is it even necessarily fraud if a marriage doesn't work out and one partner looks for a future spouse from his own background in hopes that he'll be happier? If I didn't know for certain that he's not even being faithful to her (or her or her...) even though he swears he loves her, I might give him the benefit of the doubt, but I don't believe love has anything to do with any of this. To be annoyingly cynical about it all, I think it's all about, "This woman can get me papers, these heathen women can show me a good time, and this woman can cook and clean just like my mommy did back home, without complaining about my extracurriculars."

I do think some of my confusion on this comes from the fact that I don't want our child exposed to this sort of narcissistic extended family who believe it's okay to use people, to use the system, if it gets you what you want. I won't try to keep her from her dad unless something drastic happens, and I know it's usually good for a child to be close to both sides of the family if possible, but if they do manage all of this, that's at least three more of his family members/in-laws in my town, and I believe they would attempt to have a strong influence on some of my parenting decisions simply because of the nature of family and other cultural elements over there. I am not at all afraid to stand up for my child's well-being as I see it, but I would sure rather not have to spend time and energy and money that are already in short supply butting heads with them if they get local on me.

I know you're only getting one side of this, and it's longer than I'd planned, but after writing all this, now I wonder if I'd be better off just saying nothing at all. It would all be hearsay, and I believe I've read many times that isn't enough to waste ICE's resources, though maybe that's more with regard to deportations rather than being allowed in in the first place. I don't think he's mentioned one word about marriage for papers in an e-mail to me. And none of the other things that I know are things that would hold up as proof; I only know because he's so darned indiscreet, and this isn't such a big town. I also don't know if he would find out I'd contacted them, and I don't want drama coming home to our child. It just, frankly, bugs the heck out of me that this stuff goes on and that I got caught in it. And yeah, sometimes I do feel like the biggest fool. FWIW, I have never had so much confidence in a man in my life. Never in a million years would I have thought he would do some of the things I now know he has done. And our process was not short. He was patient and just that good. And I guess he still is, since his own homegirls are buying his lines too. Or maybe the cycle repeats itself? They keep telling me karma is around here somewhere...

This turned into more of a vent than I'd intended, but I really would appreciate some objective input about whether or how much I should pass along to USCIS/ICE, especially from the straight-talkers. You know who you are. I can take it. Many thanks.

Id pay money to know what country he was from LOL..

[In a tizzy 7]

Come to think of it... Karma is a ###### and he has it coming. Hang in there!

[Fandango 1,439]

Id pay money to know what country he was from LOL..

There's really nothing LOL worthy about this thread.

eta: read your own sig and apply it to the OP.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Anita Cocktail

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

There's really nothing LOL worthy about this thread.

eta: read your own sig and apply it to the OP.

I think its very relevant although you might not. The whole sister marrying and coming over. The whole heathen comment. The fact from the outset, she is thinking she was set up and used. I think its very very relevant and I would be interested to know.Shes not the first person at the rodeo and she shouldnt beat herself up over it

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

You've said what I've been thinking all day, about what would happen if she was denied and a lawyer put in a FOIA request. have no real proof beyond, as you said, an old conversation and patterns within the family. I don't even know whether she'll go through with the marriage. She's very attached to her mom.

I'm going to watch and wait for now. Their surname is very uncommon here. If the government chooses to investigate, it won't be difficult, though I don't think he's kept up with his change of address. I have kept up with mine. I think they can probably learn as much without my help as they can with it, and I'll tell the truth if asked.

Take care of your child and her safety. If the father is from a non hague country, it probably wouldnt hurt you for him to marry someone else and move on so his focus isnt on you and your kid but rather wifing up someone from back home. A VRAI MARRIAGE instead of BLANCHE.. And it has nothing to do with you or your worth...its just the way of many people from certain cultures or high fraud embassies. These embassies are the way they are because they often see the new spouse getting petitioned after an American or Canadian has been there 5 years before. I would love to be a fly on the wall at one of the embassies listening to the stuff they see every day or the accounts they crack into before interview day.. they make decisions based on facts and information and at this point you need to keep your child safe. If he wants to go hook up with someone from back home and entertain himself with the local talent until then, then sooner or later karma is going to spank him. In the meanwhile, take care of yourself ok , honey?

[Fandango 1,439]

I think its very relevant although you might not. The whole sister marrying and coming over. The whole heathen comment. The fact from the outset, she is thinking she was set up and used. I think its very very relevant and I would be interested to know.Shes not the first person at the rodeo and she shouldnt beat herself up over it

I'm taking umbrage with the LOL comment. Ask the question, sure...but lulz are not needed here.

Btw, she said earlier 'high fraud country'. 1- Obviously she doesn't want to disclose, and 2- knowing the exact country isn't really germane to the conversation.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I'm taking umbrage with the LOL comment. Ask the question, sure...but lulz are not needed here.

Btw, she said earlier 'high fraud country'. 1- Obviously she doesn't want to disclose, and 2- knowing the exact country isn't really germane to the conversation.

Why is disclosing where he was from really an issue? No one asked her. I am asking her because I am curious. To my knowledge there are not that many high fraud consulates so it is kind of interesting to find out.

I absolutely am sure she takes no offense with any of us asking.

I think the country does matter as does the prevalence of this kind of behavior, hence the fact that its even called a high fraud country. Where he was from matters quite a bit actually. I am more worried about her getting pissed and her blocking his plans and then ending up with an irate guy who cant go home and marry who he really wanted to to begin with and then starts focusing all his craziness on her.

[Fandango 1,439]

Why is disclosing where he was from really an issue? No one asked her. I am asking her because I am curious. To my knowledge there are not that many high fraud consulates so it is kind of interesting to find out.

I absolutely am sure she takes no offense with any of us asking.

I think the country does matter as does the prevalence of this kind of behavior, hence the fact that its even called a high fraud country. Where he was from matters quite a bit actually. I am more worried about her getting pissed and her blocking his plans and then ending up with an irate guy who cant go home and marry who he really wanted to to begin with and then starts focusing all his craziness on her.

Again, you're missing my point entirely. This woman is describing a sad situation and you're all 'where's he from, LOL'

Try to show a little compassion, especially since your signature speaks the virtues of receiving such.

[broma25 2]

First of all, my heart goes out to you, and it must be such a painful situation to deal with.

However, I don't think you have anything really concrete to submit to ICE. You have a hearsay conversation from several months ago, and that's it. Yes, there might be a pattern with all of his siblings. But remember when you yourself were going through the process...couldn't that somehow be 'explained away'?

What concerns me most is that if you do contact USCIS/DOS/ICE, and somehow it gets back to him/his sister that someone has lodged concerns...of course they will know it's you. And if that comes to pass, the civil relationship you have with him/them for your daughter will deteriorate...and it's much better for her sake for you to be friendly with him. Because you have more control over the situation if you're friendly. Remember, keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.

I absolutely 100% agree with this post. They will know its you who has reported them and that could cause you a whole heap of problems. I would let Immigration decide if its a legitimate relationship, and if they can satisfy them then so be it.