Friend Refused B-2 Visa

[Boiler 45,498]

I could have sworn you have made similar comments on other threads and I have told you that is not the case.

[Little_My 464]

Does anyone know how this really works in practice? Has there been a case on VJ where someone was denied a non-immigrant visa, and then applied for ESTA and entered successfully or unsuccessfully on VWP? This is not really relevant to me, but might be for some of my friends, and I am still a bit confused as to what the rules really are.

My understanding is, that if you are ever denied entry on VWP, then you are banned from using it for the rest of your life (same if you ever overstay on VWP, right?).

However, if you apply for a non-immigrant visa, such as B2 or F1, and are denied, according to the Department of State

A recent visa denial for any reason could result in denial of an authorization via ESTA, additional questioning at the port of entry, or denial of admission to the United States. Applicants who are uncertain of whether they qualify for VWP travel may choose to apply for a visa.

That is a very roundabout statement. My understanding has been that if, for example, you are denied a B2, and then proceed to apply for ESTA, the ESTA will most likely be cleared. The problems arise at POE, as the recent visa denial is now in your file and you are almost certainly going to be pulled to secondary. However, I am unclear as to how common it is for people who've had a denial on a non-immigrant visa to be turned away when attempting to enter on a VWP, or are they usually questioned at POE and then let in.

[Boiler 45,498]

The problems arise at POE, as the recent visa denial is now in your file and you are almost certainly going to be pulled to secondary.

Agreed

However, I am unclear as to how common it is for people who've had a denial on a non-immigrant visa to be turned away when attempting to enter on a VWP, or are they usually questioned at POE and then let in.

I can not remember a case where someone has been refused. Probably because someone coming in in this sort of situation is much better prepared and is not pushing their luck.

[Harsh_77 718]

It is possible that the recent denial of the B2 is not in the system yet. She applies for ESTA to use the VWP, for which she is not eligible anymore, flies to the U.S. and is denied entry. Is that what you guys suggest her to do?

The rules are pretty clear on this: if she's ever been denied a visa petition, she's not eligible to use the VWP anymore. Even later in life an attempt to trick the system can be held against her for misrepresentation, so I would advise against this.

+1 Even if her ESTA comes in approved, she would have hard time entering.

She would definately be pulled in for secondry at the POE and most likely would be refused entry.

As the denial would be in the system and her passport has the stamp of it as well.

If she is going to attempt to use VWP after denial of B2, she has to be prepared to be put on the next flight back home.

[Sixx 0]

+1 Even if her ESTA comes in approved, she would have hard time entering.

She would definately be pulled in for secondry at the POE and most likely would be refused entry.

As the denial would be in the system and her passport has the stamp of it as well.

If she is going to attempt to use VWP after denial of B2, she has to be prepared to be put on the next flight back home.

If she goes via Dublin, will she avoid the entir Fly-to-America-only-to-be-turned-around bit? Someone earlier said this was the case, but I want a second opinion. And from my understanding it's not 100% that she WILL be turned around, nor is it 100% that she'll be let in, either.

[canadian_wife 1,822]

Dublin, like my home city of Toronto, is a pre-clearance site. That means, she'll go through US customs and immigration in Dublin. If she is refused, she'll not be permitted to get on a plane to the US

When I was denied entry, due to lack of ties to Canada (which by the way sounds similar to your girlfriend) I was not allowed to leave Toronto and had to go back home.

This isn't a 50-50 scenario. She is very likely to be refused entry. And it is a humiliating experience to be denied entry. Prepare her to be fingerprinted, photographed and (often) treated like a criminal.

Good luck

[Boiler 45,498]

I can not remember a case where someone has been refused. Probably because someone coming in in this sort of situation is much better prepared and is not pushing their luck.

Where on earth do you get your information from to make such comments?

If you do not know please do not speculate like you do.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

Dublin, like my home city of Toronto, is a pre-clearance site. That means, she'll go through US customs and immigration in Dublin. If she is refused, she'll not be permitted to get on a plane to the US

When I was denied entry, due to lack of ties to Canada (which by the way sounds similar to your girlfriend) I was not allowed to leave Toronto and had to go back home.

This isn't a 50-50 scenario. She is very likely to be refused entry. And it is a humiliating experience to be denied entry. Prepare her to be fingerprinted, photographed and (often) treated like a criminal.

Good luck

I don't know your story Canadian_wife, but I wanted to wonder out loud if there is a distinct difference between your case and the OP's friend. While you both had or have little ties to home country, were you crossing frequently? This will be the OP's first trip.

There is a chance the CO just withdrew the application, instead of denying it. He apparently said "denied" but didn't necessarily input it that way.

I really don't think a dumb/misinformed (no offense OP) mistake would bar the person for life. OP's friend is just a student who didn't know what to do and didn't do a simple internet search/ make a phone call. Plenty of students/young people visit with little ties.

[canadian_wife 1,822]

I don't know your story Canadian_wife, but I wanted to wonder out loud if there is a distinct difference between your case and the OP's friend. While you both had or have little ties to home country, were you crossing frequently? This will be the OP's first trip.

There is a chance the CO just withdrew the application, instead of denying it. He apparently said "denied" but didn't necessarily input it that way.

I really don't think a dumb/misinformed (no offense OP) mistake would bar the person for life. OP's friend is just a student who didn't know what to do and didn't do a simple internet search/ make a phone call. Plenty of students/young people visit with little ties.

Nor do I, however it is the lack of ties that concerns me, so does the attempt at entering the US after a visa denial, seems like there is a compelling reason to enter the US - CBPs dont' really like to see that do they?

Of course there are differences between my case and the OP - I never said it was the same

Good luck

[Boiler 45,498]

You can not have a Visa application withdrawn.

It is either approved or not.

[ellmyl 0]

i like to share my experience, i had a 10 year B-Visa, married since 2003....my husband spent 2 years in my country, he liked it but he did not get a proper job, his company called him back, he was not replacable....... i visited 2 times my husband which was at that time a LPR, in 2009 they sent me back because i spent already almost 6 months before in the states in 2009 and the officer at POE told me i can come back in 2010, i stayed 14 months in my homecountry, worked, we startet to built up our own home here, and when i came back nov 2010 the officer canceld my Visa at POE, told me i am a potentional danger for the country, because i could take away a job from an american when i work illegal , which i never did, i worked volunter in a home for abused kids, but no one was interested on that, they kept me there for 7 hours, threated me to put me in jail if i want to wait for an consul from my embassy, believe me i had prove that i can start work again after i come back from the states, we have a property and a house here in my homecountry, grown up kids from my first marriage, even 2 grandchilds...ties enough and no reason to stay illegal which i never planed or did.......the officers where very arogant and heartless and not interested on any proves, they threated my like the worstest criminal, i was just lucky when they sent me back to my homecountry where i felt save, i asked the officer if i could come on VWP, but he told me no, i need a proper visa....in the meantime my husband became a citizen, i have my visa in hand, i will go back to the states at the end of november because of my husband and his work....but not forever, once my husband retieres we will live in my homecountry....it is sad that america has this crazy rules and i believe a lot of marriages fall apart or young couples do not even have the changes to know each other better, my husband visited me 6 times during this 2 years, our love was strong enough, i wish all the best and stay strong, it is not always easy but if you really love each other you can make it.....

[Boiler 45,498]

I am going to assume you are not from a VWP Country (which is the issue in this thread)

in 2009 they sent me back because i spent already almost 6 months before in the states in 2009

That is a loooong vacation. Especially when the average in the US seems 2 weeks.

And then you tried to come back!

i worked volunter in a home for abused kids

I would have thought that most people in such situations would be paid for such work.

Seems a very clear case of you abusing the Visitor privilege. Not the case with the OP.

[Penguin_ie 5,993]

Where on earth do you get your information from to make such comments?

If you do not know please do not speculate like you do.

... it's you who said that?

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Where on earth do you get your information from to make such comments?

If you do not know please do not speculate like you do.

Okay well I DO know. Ticking "refused visa" has a little "Are you sure you want to tick this box? Please read the help section" box pop up.

Then the "when?" and "where?" boxes pop up. Then it won't tell you if you're approved or denied until you pay the application fee (never used to be a fee.. interesting). Also says you need to wait 7 days for a decision.

Anyway. Here's the answer to the question: http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/without/without_1990.html#denied It is highly unlikely the OP's girlfriend will have ESTA approved when she was denied for immigration risk.

---

OP - She CAN still use the VWP to travel to OTHER VWP countries because she hasn't been denied a visa to THOSE countries.. so why don't you plan a quick holiday to Canada?

.

[Boiler 45,498]

A recent visa denial for any reason could result in denial of an authorization via ESTA, additional questioning at the port of entry, or denial of admission to the United States.

The same could be said of any entry, no entry is guaranteed.

How the hell do you reach the conclusion you did? I take it that you were refused a visa and entered on the VWP and were not admitted?

What other VWP countries?. VWP is a US Immigration term.

Classic case where a little knowledge can be very dangerous.