Citizenship denied for lack of good moral character

[lbluemoonl 5]

Is there anybody on this thread who has applied for citizenship under military members and dependents? There is something on my denial form which I'm not quiet sure about it. I applied my citizenship under 5 yrs resident. That means if you are denied they should give you a five-years-date to reapply. Now On mine it notes in 3 yrs. The 3 yrs is for those who applied under "married to a citizen for 3 yrs" section. Now I'm thinking if it's because i filed through military as an spouse or it's a typing error! This is just getting more complex. Edited September 17, 2011 by lbluemoonl

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

Not the appeal. Just the citizenship. There is a $800 attorney fee for the appeal. The client is reponsible for the application fees.

Wait,

So if you're denied for filing when USCIS has told you you're not currently eligible then you pay the Filing Fee for both the application and appeal then on top of that you will still pay the lawyer $800?

I don't see a downside for the lawyer here.

[lbluemoonl 5]

Wait,

So if you're denied for filing when USCIS has told you you're not currently eligible then you pay the Filing Fee for both the application and appeal then on top of that you will still pay the lawyer $800?

I don't see a downside for the lawyer here.

That would be a discussion between me and the lawer. Any attorney has a fee and any client has his own terms and conditions regarding the fees if he decides to hire an attorney. However, no decision has been made yet.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

That would be a discussion between me and the lawer. Any attorney has a fee and any client has his own terms and conditions regarding the fees if he decides to hire an attorney. However, no decision has been made yet.

I'm not saying otherwise but remember you're the one risking your LPR Status if a second application when you're clearly not eligible causes other unforeseen negative consequences. Even if it was a mistake, you did misrepresent a material fact on your original N-400 and you are lucky they only denied you. So the stakes are pretty high for you.

Now you have a lawyer who is telling you something that contradicts what USCIS says about your eligibility to re-apply. If it was me I'd be telling the Lawyer to "put his money where his mouth is". At the very least I'd expect him to cover all expenses if the new application fails, that includes filing fees and attorney fees for every step including defending me in immigration court if my LPR status is revoked as a result of following his advice. Then you'll find out how confident he really is.

I know the plan is to explain at the interview how the previous answers were a mistake but as I've pointed out USCIS can simply deny your application without an interview because you aren't eligible to even apply currently. If that happens and you file an appeal you won't succeed there either because you don't have grounds to appeal when you weren't eligible to apply in the first place so the decision is valid.

All I'm saying is don't lose sight of the fact that re-applying can go horribly wrong....

[lbluemoonl 5]

All I'm saying is don't lose sight of the fact that re-applying can go horribly wrong....

My application was denied without prejudice and base on what the first attorney said, your previous denial does not affect your new application as each application is determined for its own merits. There is a 3 yrs statutory period to wait before re-apply but it's just a suggestion/recommendation, according to him. You can re-apply at anytime if you want to.

This guy is a very well known immigration attorney in the area. However, what you mentioned is my concern as well. That's why I'm going to discuss this issue with the other attorney to get a second opinion.

Thanks for the tip.

Edited September 17, 2011 by lbluemoonl

[Kathryn41 3,205]

I think what Bob 4 Anna is saying is that you are 'allowed' to refile at any time, but USCIS may not consider any application filed prior to the 3 year time frame they suggested. You are always 'allowed' to file. They are happy to take your money even if you are not considered eligible to receive the benefit at the time.

Anyway, good luck.

[lbluemoonl 5]

I think what Bob 4 Anna is saying is that you are 'allowed' to refile at any time, but USCIS may not consider any application filed prior to the 3 year time frame they suggested. You are always 'allowed' to file. They are happy to take your money even if you are not considered eligible to receive the benefit at the time.

Anyway, good luck.

That's true.. Im not in a rush.. I am still considering waiting to avoid more headache but at the same time I want to know what all my options are..

Thanks for the feedback

[CoffeeBeans 1]

I don't think anyone here is trying to shoot personal attacks. People are helping in different ways. To be honest, I like JustBob. His replies always go straight to the point and they are true. USCIS officers probably think the same JustBob does. That's the reality.

And the OP threw her problem out there and invited ppl to come and discuss. You can't insist to hear only what you WANT to hear. So I think you should be thankful for any comments. At least you weren't ignored, ppl concerned and spent their time for you.

Perhaps there are some cultural differences in play here. After reading postings of JustBob on this message board, I do think he is quite a knowledgeable person and knows what he is talking about. I notice his country is Germany, I happen to know and have come across quite a few Germans having similar mannerism like JustBob's. To me, I see that as straight talking, get to the points without beating around the bush. There is nothing wrong with that. When I first encountered this mannerism long time ago, I needed a little time to get use to it.

We also need to remember written communications cannot effectively convey tones and emotions like oral communications can. Try not to see his postings as personal attacks, and focus on harvesting the many good points in his posts into practical knowledge that will come in handy some time down the road. We all have been through that young and stupid phase in our lives, and are no saints. Life is too short, take it easy and be nice to one and another.

Best wishes to the OP on her application journey and cheers

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

My application was denied without prejudice and base on what the first attorney said, your previous denial does not affect your new application as each application is determined for its own merits. There is a 3 yrs statutory period to wait before re-apply but it's just a suggestion/recommendation, according to him. You can re-apply at anytime if you want to.

Have you read the links I provided? According to USCIS's own guide for the N-400 if you are denied the denial notice will include a date that you can re-apply. It doesn't even hint at that date being "just a recommendation". Ask the lawyer to show you where he gets that it is just a recommendation.

FWIW, at naturalization your whole USCIS Casefile comes into play, if they find contradictions between greencard application and ROC or N-400 then they can charge you with Misrepresentation on the earlier forms and revoke your status.

Lawyers love to stretch the law and create new precedent, unfortunately it's usually at the expense and hardship of their clients who get dragged through years of misery as they get hit with loss after loss and live in fear of failure in the end.

What I'm really saying is that nobody has as much on the line as you do so while the lawyer is confident you might want to consider what is the safest course of action even if it is less expedient.

I'm always amazed at how carefree some people take immigration matters (no saying you are). They just don't treat it like the life altering situation it can be and then in the end thye act like it's someone else's fault when they don't make good (safe) decisions and the outcome tears them away from the life they have built here.

Think of your current situation like this:

USCIS has a gun to you head but promises to not pull the trigger if you just walk out the door and don't return for 3 years.

The lawyer says, "I'm confident that USCIS can't legally pull the trigger today". Sounds good, right?

Now you have the USCIS "Rule of Engagement" Manual in you hands which clearly states that USCIS has the authority to pull the trigger.

Tell me, would you trust the lawyer or return in 3 years?

[lbluemoonl 5]

Have you read the links I provided? According to USCIS's own guide for the N-400 if you are denied the denial notice will include a date that you can re-apply. It doesn't even hint at that date being "just a recommendation". Ask the lawyer to show you where he gets that it is just a recommendation.

FWIW, at naturalization your whole USCIS Casefile comes into play, if they find contradictions between greencard application and ROC or N-400 then they can charge you with Misrepresentation on the earlier forms and revoke your status.

Lawyers love to stretch the law and create new precedent, unfortunately it's usually at the expense and hardship of their clients who get dragged through years of misery as they get hit with loss after loss and live in fear of failure in the end.

What I'm really saying is that nobody has as much on the line as you do so while the lawyer is confident you might want to consider what is the safest course of action even if it is less expedient.

I'm always amazed at how carefree some people take immigration matters (no saying you are). They just don't treat it like the life altering situation it can be and then in the end thye act like it's someone else's fault when they don't make good (safe) decisions and the outcome tears them away from the life they have built here.

Think of your current situation like this:

USCIS has a gun to you head but promises to not pull the trigger if you just walk out the door and don't return for 3 years.

The lawyer says, "I'm confident that USCIS can't legally pull the trigger today". Sounds good, right?

Now you have the USCIS "Rule of Engagement" Manual in you hands which clearly states that USCIS has the authority to pull the trigger.

Tell me, would you trust the lawyer or return in 3 years?

I understand your point. Like I said before in my last post, that is my concern as well. I'm not sure about his theory either. That's why I wnat to talk to a few more attonrneys to find out what this guy said is true or he is just practicing his theories on his clients to see what the outcome is. Like I said before, I m not in a rush and still considering waiting to avoid more headache and trouble. The whole point of getting professional advice from the laweres is to learn more about my situation, possibilities and prepration for the next..

Right now I'm just sleeping on it, honestly...I was so paniced the first a few days when i got the notice..Feeling helpless and disappointed.

[cappucino 1]

I understand your point. Like I said before in my last post, that is my concern as well. I'm not sure about his theory either. That's why I wnat to talk to a few more attonrneys to find out what this guy said is true or he is just practicing his theories on his clients to see what the outcome is. Like I said before, I m not in a rush and still considering waiting to avoid more headache and trouble. The whole point of getting professional advice from the laweres is to learn more about my situation, possibilities and prepration for the next..

Right now I'm just sleeping on it, honestly...I was so paniced the first a few days when i got the notice..Feeling helpless and disappointed.

I just read this whole thread, and I would make sure to hire the VERY BEST lawyer you can find, one that will tell you whether you have a case or not. I worked with a firm in So. California (pm me if you want their name) for many years prior to my LPR, and they would not take a case for whatever reason unless they were absolutely sure they could win it. They will do a phone consultation (free) and will tell you whether they will take the case, based on whether they can win it. (They are considered to be the no. 1 immigration firm in the country). In your case, which is very scary and major, THAT is where I would be going, I wouldn't mess with USCIS for ANYTHING. Trust me on this, I have been through some very harrowing US immigration experiences, and been on the wrong side of them more than once for much less than you have going on.

[lbluemoonl 5]

I just read this whole thread, and I would make sure to hire the VERY BEST lawyer you can find, one that will tell you whether you have a case or not. I worked with a firm in So. California (pm me if you want their name) for many years prior to my LPR, and they would not take a case for whatever reason unless they were absolutely sure they could win it. They will do a phone consultation (free) and will tell you whether they will take the case, based on whether they can win it. (They are considered to be the no. 1 immigration firm in the country). In your case, which is very scary and major, THAT is where I would be going, I wouldn't mess with USCIS for ANYTHING. Trust me on this, I have been through some very harrowing US immigration experiences, and been on the wrong side of them more than once for much less than you have going on.

Thanks for the comment, cappucino. Me and my husband just had a discussion about this. I trust my husband's judgement and I've decided to wait three years. What's done is done and I don't want to risk anything in this case. I think if I wait, it shows them that I have respected their desicion. Next time I will definitely hire an attorney to re-apply. Three years seems a lot to wait but It gives me a chance to prove them that I'm a good person and I deserve to be a citizen.

I'm just a little disappointed because one of the reasons that I was looking forward to approval of this applican is to have my parents here. I haven't seen my family in 8 years. They never had chance to meet my husband and my daughter yet. Besides I really need their help now because my husband might get deployed anytime by the end of the year. It would be nice to have some family support..I know they can still get a tourist visa but the chances are unknown.

Anyways.. You never know what to expect next..

Edited September 18, 2011 by lbluemoonl

[VanessaTony 3,567]

withdrawn.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Vanessa&Tony

[VanessaTony 3,567]

I would go talk to a lawyer and figure out what the next best step is. No one on here is a lawyer, nor are they God. They have neither all the information or the right to judge. Good luck on whatever you decide to do!

Out of interest there ARE some lawyers on the boards and those with legal experience.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Exactly. According to my lawer and the reports that we got from the police, we have some facts that I can go with to prove that that was just a misunderstanding. I didn't intentionaly say NO to the question.

I'm sorry and I know you've decided to wait the 3 years which is good, but i don't think you ever would have one on "misunderstanding". The question/s were pretty clear:

16. Have you ever been arrested, cited, or detained by any law enforcement officer (including USCIS or former INS and military officers) for any reason?

17. Have you ever been charged with committing any crime or offense?

18. Have you ever been convicted of a crime or offense?

19. Have you ever been placed in an alternative sentencing or a rehabilitative program (for example: diversion, deferred prosecution, withheld adjudication, deferred adjudication)?

16 at the very least is an obvious yes for you because you WERE cited. But anyway.

This post might get deleted but I'm not trying to be rude when I say: You do NOT deserve respect simply because of who or what your husband is or does. That would be like me expecting respect every time my husband helps someone, that's him, not me. You also DID steal. I'm not judging you, we all make mistakes, but you seem to be in denial about it. It would be like taking in my handbag and switching it out for a new one. While at the time you obviously didn't think it was stealing, it was. Does this matter now? Maybe not but at least accepting your mistake and admitting to it if ever asked would have kept you out of this situation.

I definitely think waiting the 3 years is the best decision.