ESL Classes?

[JustinlovesAnna 0]

Hi guys,

Anna and I returned from the Ukraine on the 6th (POE was JFK) and spent a few days there before returning to Southern California. Now that we're here together (happily I might add - although she did make me clean the entire house with her haha!), we're sorting everything out and moving forward. One of the things Anna wanted to do was take some Intermediate ESL classes. She speaks very well but she has a hard time reading and writing still. We were hoping to find a good program to allow her to accomplish those goals.

My question(s) revolve around what the rest of you have done/experienced. Were ESL classes a good fit? How many tried? Any recommendations rather than ESL classes? Since we're in Southern California, there's a large base of Latin folks that frequent these types of classes. I just picked Anna up at my lunch break and she said most everything that they gave to her to study had Spanish/Mexican words that crossed to American English. She said most of the class seems to be tailored for a Spanish speaking individual looking to learn English, not really for other nationalities. We've looked at a few programs and all of them seem like what Anna's shared an experience with.

So what about Russia/Ukraine people? What's the best way to improve her language/reading/writing skills rather than just everyday experience? Any success stories?

[jkelly07 120]

fine alocal community college in your area, the has free esl classes,

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Hi guys,

Anna and I returned from the Ukraine on the 6th (POE was JFK) and spent a few days there before returning to Southern California. Now that we're here together (happily I might add - although she did make me clean the entire house with her haha!), we're sorting everything out and moving forward. One of the things Anna wanted to do was take some Intermediate ESL classes. She speaks very well but she has a hard time reading and writing still. We were hoping to find a good program to allow her to accomplish those goals.

My question(s) revolve around what the rest of you have done/experienced. Were ESL classes a good fit? How many tried? Any recommendations rather than ESL classes? Since we're in Southern California, there's a large base of Latin folks that frequent these types of classes. I just picked Anna up at my lunch break and she said most everything that they gave to her to study had Spanish/Mexican words that crossed to American English. She said most of the class seems to be tailored for a Spanish speaking individual looking to learn English, not really for other nationalities. We've looked at a few programs and all of them seem like what Anna's shared an experience with.

So what about Russia/Ukraine people? What's the best way to improve her language/reading/writing skills rather than just everyday experience? Any success stories?

Yes, ESL classes are good. But they have some flaws as they are usually offered, though they are usually free or very cheap so what can you expect?

They generally are divided into 5 levels and they will assess her level. Level 5, I think it is is called "intermediate" or advanced intermediate, is as high as they usually go and that is not good enough for college, but good enough for general life and simple jobs. The flaw in them, that I see, is that they are often not offered enough. 2 times per week is not enough. If this is the case, sign her up for different classes and get her in a class at least 4 days per week.

Next is the community college type basic English courses. These are basically remedial courses for native speakers though they may offer one for non-native speakers. And they are above the level usually offered for ESL. Our local community college has both (Alla taught one of these as part of her practicum I) and the tuition is free but you pay for books. They are designed improve existing English skills.

The next level available here are the "IEP" (Intense English Program) or "AEP" (Academic English Program) These are generally designed to bring non-native speakers up to college level English. They are everyday, all day type programs, usually 8 weeks or so and they are not cheap but they are very effective. Alla attended one of these when she began her degree and taught one for her practicum II. They will bring the level of English up enough to be able to attend regular English language college courses, in other words, as well as a 12th grade native speaker. I would say that is true from the people I have met in these classes and from Alla being able to attain a masters degree after going through this.

Some other things that helped us. English only at home at least for a while. NO Russian movies, books etc. Use English subtitles or captioning for English language movies. we were strictly NO RUSSIAN for a while and now virtually ALL Russian. Because we do not want Pasha to lose his ability at Russian and he does fine with English now and has plenty of English exposure at school, work and sports.

Study vocabulary every day. Add 10 words. Alla still does this though now the words are getting way out there. She is currently taking a class for medical interpretation, 15 hours per week for 5 weeks to get a certificate in medical interpretation and a second class in law at the community college to learn legal terms and procedures! I am already convinced her goal in life is to be a professional student.

Little labels on things for translation and especially for conversion to English system or she is going to be waiting ages for the food in the oven to cook.

[JustinlovesAnna 0]

Yes, ESL classes are good. But they have some flaws as they are usually offered, though they are usually free or very cheap so what can you expect?

They generally are divided into 5 levels and they will assess her level. Level 5, I think it is is called "intermediate" or advanced intermediate, is as high as they usually go and that is not good enough for college, but good enough for general life and simple jobs. The flaw in them, that I see, is that they are often not offered enough. 2 times per week is not enough. If this is the case, sign her up for different classes and get her in a class at least 4 days per week.

Next is the community college type basic English courses. These are basically remedial courses for native speakers though they may offer one for non-native speakers. And they are above the level usually offered for ESL. Our local community college has both (Alla taught one of these as part of her practicum I) and the tuition is free but you pay for books. They are designed improve existing English skills.

The next level available here are the "IEP" (Intense English Program) or "AEP" (Academic English Program) These are generally designed to bring non-native speakers up to college level English. They are everyday, all day type programs, usually 8 weeks or so and they are not cheap but they are very effective. Alla attended one of these when she began her degree and taught one for her practicum II. They will bring the level of English up enough to be able to attend regular English language college courses, in other words, as well as a 12th grade native speaker. I would say that is true from the people I have met in these classes and from Alla being able to attain a masters degree after going through this.

Some other things that helped us. English only at home at least for a while. NO Russian movies, books etc. Use English subtitles or captioning for English language movies. we were strictly NO RUSSIAN for a while and now virtually ALL Russian. Because we do not want Pasha to lose his ability at Russian and he does fine with English now and has plenty of English exposure at school, work and sports.

Study vocabulary every day. Add 10 words. Alla still does this though now the words are getting way out there. She is currently taking a class for medical interpretation, 15 hours per week for 5 weeks to get a certificate in medical interpretation and a second class in law at the community college to learn legal terms and procedures! I am already convinced her goal in life is to be a professional student.

Little labels on things for translation and especially for conversion to English system or she is going to be waiting ages for the food in the oven to cook.

Very interesting information. I had no idea about the "IEP" and/or "AEP". The ESL classes that we have been frequenting and looking at are from Community Colleges, but she's not very satisfied with them. Looking into the "AEP" looks like CSU Long Beach does have "The Intensive Academic English Program". The course description seems to be as follows:

"The Intensive Academic English Program is designed to prepare students for American Colleges and Universities. Successful completion of Level 4 fulfills English language admission requirements for CSULB undergraduate programs requiring a TOEFL score of 500. Successful completion of Level 6 fulfills English language admission requirements for CSULB graduate programs requiring a TOEFL score of 550. The areas of focus in this program are reading, writing, grammar, listening, and speaking. There are 25 hours of study a week for levels 1-4. Students in level 5 take 15 hours of English instruction with one 3-unit University class. Students in level 6 take 9 hours of English instruction and two 3-unit University courses."

Although the tuition is 3400.00 it may be something that we look very closely into. Thanks for the information about the various programs and levels!

[1HappyGuy 45]

We are in Northern California, so I'm familiar with the community college programs. At our JC they offer three levels of ESL that are for free. They are basic, intermediate and advanced. The basic is designed for people that are not acquainted with the school room atmosphere. This is very basic and in most cases will be boring for anyone with some English skills. The intermediate and advanced are not very different, but the main thing is to have constant learning of English. Most JC's will offer additional ESL classes that are part of the regular curriculum and those will cost you tuition and books.

My wife used the captioning aspect on the TV to watch movies and learn additional English. When we spoke, I always speak with the proper English so she can pick it up from me also. If you talk to her in broken English or like a baby, she will not progress. Always be there with encouragement and kindness. She will appreciate it. You will have misunderstandings, so expect it and don't blow a fuse when she gets something wrong that you thought she understood. It is going to happen.

My stepson and his Russian friend are going to school in Long Beach, so if she needs to hear some Russian, send me a PM. Both of them just started school last month. As for the high density of Spanish speakers to other languages, you should have expected that in So. Cal. Over time she will be farther advanced than most and can look to other classes. If you can find an English class from high school night class, that might work out pretty well, but those seem harder to find today.

The most important thing is to be willing to help her for a long time. You will find yourself wondering about so many of our slang terms that we all know instinctively and yet when you have to explain it, you will wonder how to do this.

[JustinlovesAnna 0]

We are in Northern California, so I'm familiar with the community college programs. At our JC they offer three levels of ESL that are for free. They are basic, intermediate and advanced. The basic is designed for people that are not acquainted with the school room atmosphere. This is very basic and in most cases will be boring for anyone with some English skills. The intermediate and advanced are not very different, but the main thing is to have constant learning of English. Most JC's will offer additional ESL classes that are part of the regular curriculum and those will cost you tuition and books.

My wife used the captioning aspect on the TV to watch movies and learn additional English. When we spoke, I always speak with the proper English so she can pick it up from me also. If you talk to her in broken English or like a baby, she will not progress. Always be there with encouragement and kindness. She will appreciate it. You will have misunderstandings, so expect it and don't blow a fuse when she gets something wrong that you thought she understood. It is going to happen.

My stepson and his Russian friend are going to school in Long Beach, so if she needs to hear some Russian, send me a PM. Both of them just started school last month. As for the high density of Spanish speakers to other languages, you should have expected that in So. Cal. Over time she will be farther advanced than most and can look to other classes. If you can find an English class from high school night class, that might work out pretty well, but those seem harder to find today.

The most important thing is to be willing to help her for a long time. You will find yourself wondering about so many of our slang terms that we all know instinctively and yet when you have to explain it, you will wonder how to do this.

I completely agree. Constant English is important. We speak nothing but English, actually. I will try the captions, that does sound like a good idea. Anna doesn't much like to sit at home, though. She's very active and we've only watched TV on the airplane so far...haha. The only time she speaks Ukrainian or Russian is when she speaks to her mother or father in the evening. Other than that, it's always English. My Russian is terrible at best, and she does teach me some when I ask, though.

Her English is actually very good. She only has difficulty with adding the articles (the "A", "An", and "The"s). Or using the best tense with a word (at times). Her major difficulty point is reading and writing. She wants to get her drivers license soon and the written test has her a bit nervous because she has to read and understand unassisted. Heck, the written test is even a bit challenging for some Americans, so it's fairly understandable.

Anyhow, thank you very much for the encouraging advise. We do take it to heart, and hopefully we can find a program that will meet her expectations. I don't think that a JC or CC would be sufficient as she has already tried a few. I think we'll start her at the 3 week CSULB Preliminary class and see how that goes. It's 1350.00, but I know the programs there are good. My sister and I were products there and very satisfied with their programs.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Very interesting information. I had no idea about the "IEP" and/or "AEP". The ESL classes that we have been frequenting and looking at are from Community Colleges, but she's not very satisfied with them. Looking into the "AEP" looks like CSU Long Beach does have "The Intensive Academic English Program". The course description seems to be as follows:

"The Intensive Academic English Program is designed to prepare students for American Colleges and Universities. Successful completion of Level 4 fulfills English language admission requirements for CSULB undergraduate programs requiring a TOEFL score of 500. Successful completion of Level 6 fulfills English language admission requirements for CSULB graduate programs requiring a TOEFL score of 550. The areas of focus in this program are reading, writing, grammar, listening, and speaking. There are 25 hours of study a week for levels 1-4. Students in level 5 take 15 hours of English instruction with one 3-unit University class. Students in level 6 take 9 hours of English instruction and two 3-unit University courses."

Although the tuition is 3400.00 it may be something that we look very closely into. Thanks for the information about the various programs and levels!

Sounds like the program Alla attended and later taught as part of her degree in teaching English.

Sounds like what they have here, though the tuition here was $8000! It is also divided into two sections, AEP and IEP but the result is similar it seems. It is a private university and they did give her a 50% scholarship so our "out of pocket" was about the same. The TOEFL exam was part of the program though Alla had already taken that in Ukraine, she did improve her score.

Free ESL classes are good but only go to very basic levels of English. Don't get me wrong, they are great for what they offer. Frankly, many FSU immigrants are already at or above that level

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

We are in Northern California, so I'm familiar with the community college programs. At our JC they offer three levels of ESL that are for free. They are basic, intermediate and advanced. The basic is designed for people that are not acquainted with the school room atmosphere. This is very basic and in most cases will be boring for anyone with some English skills. The intermediate and advanced are not very different, but the main thing is to have constant learning of English. Most JC's will offer additional ESL classes that are part of the regular curriculum and those will cost you tuition and books.

My wife used the captioning aspect on the TV to watch movies and learn additional English. When we spoke, I always speak with the proper English so she can pick it up from me also. If you talk to her in broken English or like a baby, she will not progress. Always be there with encouragement and kindness. She will appreciate it. You will have misunderstandings, so expect it and don't blow a fuse when she gets something wrong that you thought she understood. It is going to happen.

My stepson and his Russian friend are going to school in Long Beach, so if she needs to hear some Russian, send me a PM. Both of them just started school last month. As for the high density of Spanish speakers to other languages, you should have expected that in So. Cal. Over time she will be farther advanced than most and can look to other classes. If you can find an English class from high school night class, that might work out pretty well, but those seem harder to find today.

The most important thing is to be willing to help her for a long time. You will find yourself wondering about so many of our slang terms that we all know instinctively and yet when you have to explain it, you will wonder how to do this.

All good points. Yes, speak proper English. Slow it down and use simpler words until they improve their vocabulary but do not use improper speaking. My experience with this was more with Pasha than with Alla who had very good English skills already. Pasha was a very basic beginner. I also worked with him every day and he had ESL classes every day in school for 2 hours and then had his regular classes. I helped him with his homework, translated for him and explained what things meant. He made remarkable progress. If she has hobbies or interest get her involved with people here doing the same. I think one of the things that advanced Pasha more than anything in English was playing sports at school.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Her English is actually very good. She only has difficulty with adding the articles (the "A", "An", and "The"s). Or using the best tense with a word (at times). Her major difficulty point is reading and writing. She wants to get her drivers license soon and the written test has her a bit nervous because she has to read and understand unassisted. Heck, the written test is even a bit challenging for some Americans, so it's fairly understandable.

This is universally common and it is something they will take a long time to get correct all the time. Alla still makes mistakes. Correct them when they make a mistake and make a deal that they will not get upset when you do. Today, even, when we were taking things out of the car, Alla said "open a trunk, I have something in there" THE trunk, Alla.

She has a degree in teaching English but they do not TEACH English in that program, they teach HOW to teach. She will still occasionally make mistakes, but it is becoming far less common.

Slang is a different matter. She messes that up all the time because she was not taught that. The boys know it all, but she does not. It is funny though when they learn new ones and try them on you. "You crack me off" Huh? "Make me laugh, you know" Crack me UP. "Whatever" or "I learned today that 'hook up' means sex" Yes, and what? "there is a lot of people at the college who hook up, I never knew it meant they were having sex!"

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Also throw in new words for them when the opportunity presents

"Hmm, that is a predicament" Predicament. Pree-dik-e-ment...trouble, problem. Don't be surprised when she walks around saying "pree ####### e ment" all day

[1HappyGuy 45]

She wants to get her drivers license soon and the written test has her a bit nervous because she has to read and understand unassisted. Heck, the written test is even a bit challenging for some Americans, so it's fairly understandable.

Anyhow, thank you very much for the encouraging advise. We do take it to heart, and hopefully we can find a program that will meet her expectations.

You can download the Drivers Handbook from the DMV site in Russian. You should have a very good printer, preferably in black ink since you don't need the color to read the instructions. I prepared the handbook for my wife, punched holes in it and put it in a 3 ring binder. They don't send out the handbooks anymore. It was easy for me since I have a high speed laser printer at work. She can take the written test in Russian, if she prefers.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

You can download the Drivers Handbook from the DMV site in Russian. You should have a very good printer, preferably in black ink since you don't need the color to read the instructions. I prepared the handbook for my wife, punched holes in it and put it in a 3 ring binder. They don't send out the handbooks anymore. It was easy for me since I have a high speed laser printer at work. She can take the written test in Russian, if she prefers.

I was allowed to do the written test with Alla and translate for her if needed but she really didn't need me. I guess it depends on the state.

She was also able to get a drivers lisence with only showing her marriage lisence and NOA1 for filing the AOS so she had her drivers lisence in two months (that's scary!)

[slim 1,530]

Try local community organizations like the United Way or YMCA. They often have classes and activities for new immigrants.

[LvivLovers 39]

My wife did an IEP program at one of our nearby universities. She tested in at level 5 which meant she just needed to pass 1 semester to be at college level and she was accepted upon completion of the program. Actual college is quite a bit harder, but it was at least a glimpse of what was to come and taught her a lot of the skills she needed.

[JustinlovesAnna 0]

You can download the Drivers Handbook from the DMV site in Russian. You should have a very good printer, preferably in black ink since you don't need the color to read the instructions. I prepared the handbook for my wife, punched holes in it and put it in a 3 ring binder. They don't send out the handbooks anymore. It was easy for me since I have a high speed laser printer at work. She can take the written test in Russian, if she prefers.

I didn't think about this. Just found the 2011 Russian Handbook. I'm printing it for her right now! Very good advise, thank you!