Received 221g at interview with "Other" checked. How long (or short) do we wait?

[AlbaEagles<3 1]

So I double-checked with my fiancé, and she indeed got a 221g (Blue refusal worksheet) at her interview last week.

The officer checked off "Other". With a description that says something along the lines of: "Administrative Processing, Please go home and wait for a phone call. We will contact you directly when we are ready to resume your interview. Don't call us or else you will delay the process" (roughly translated using my best interpretation of Albania).

My questions is, has anyone here ever gotten an "other" refusal? .... not for missing documents, health, etc.

If so, what was their justification? Did they ever tell you what the refusal was for? How long was the wait? Did you contact any politicians (i.e. Congress, Senate, President) to help? Which helped the most?

Thanks,

Martin and Marsi

[198four 0]

Its not exactly a refusal they just wanna look more closely into your case. I got it too but for missing documents. As far as I know, it can take upto a few weeks.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

So I double-checked with my fiancé, and she indeed got a 221g (Blue refusal worksheet) at her interview last week.

The officer checked off "Other". With a description that says something along the lines of: "Administrative Processing, Please go home and wait for a phone call. We will contact you directly when we are ready to resume your interview. Don't call us or else you will delay the process" (roughly translated using my best interpretation of Albania).

My questions is, has anyone here ever gotten an "other" refusal? .... not for missing documents, health, etc.

If so, what was their justification? Did they ever tell you what the refusal was for? How long was the wait? Did you contact any politicians (i.e. Congress, Senate, President) to help? Which helped the most?

Thanks,

Martin and Marsi

It is not a refusal it is AP. They do not need "justification" it can even be random. You wait until they are finished and give a result. No politicians can, or will even try, to interfere with AP, unless it continues for an extremely long time with no communication. Then they may make an inquiry. By "extremely long with no communication" think minimum 6 months.

On the other hand they could finish it in a few days.

[AlbaEagles<3 1]

Alla,

I have discussed this at length with my friends. What makes me very upset is that it seems like the people making the decisions have more power than our politicians. How can it be that the people we pick to represent us, Congressmen and Senators, who have the power to make and change laws, do not have any power with it comes to such matters. There should be a chain of command whereby people higher on the chain should be able to override the decisions of their subordinated (just as my boss has the power to override mt decisions at work). There needs to be accountability.

I read somewhere (I cannot recall the source right now), that the preliminary review is done by USCIS and NVC, and that the embassy should only refuse or AP cases which are considered highly suspicious at the time of interview. However, doing some research, it seems like almost every Albanian on VJ has had a difficult time with this Embassy. My fiance said that out of all the people that interviewed with her that day, almost all of them were given a 221g on the spot, only 1 or 2 made it though, and even those were on their 2nd or 3rd interview.

It just doesn't seem fair or justified to me. We do pay taxes afterall. We should expect some level of professionalism.

just my 2 cents.

[AlbaEagles<3 1]

As for the fact that "They do not need "justification" it can even be random"

This is peoples lives that they are "randomly" delaying.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Alla,

I have discussed this at length with my friends. What makes me very upset is that it seems like the people making the decisions have more power than our politicians. How can it be that the people we pick to represent us, Congressmen and Senators, who have the power to make and change laws, do not have any power with it comes to such matters. There should be a chain of command whereby people higher on the chain should be able to override the decisions of their subordinated (just as my boss has the power to override mt decisions at work). There needs to be accountability.

I read somewhere (I cannot recall the source right now), that the preliminary review is done by USCIS and NVC, and that the embassy should only refuse or AP cases which are considered highly suspicious at the time of interview. However, doing some research, it seems like almost every Albanian on VJ has had a difficult time with this Embassy. My fiance said that out of all the people that interviewed with her that day, almost all of them were given a 221g on the spot, only 1 or 2 made it though, and even those were on their 2nd or 3rd interview.

It just doesn't seem fair or justified to me. We do pay taxes afterall. We should expect some level of professionalism.

just my 2 cents.

It is called separation of powers. There are threee branches of government. Executive, Legislative and Judicial. The people you vote for are Legislative. they make the laws. The people that issue visas are Executive, they administer the laws. The legislative branch CANNOT interfere with the Executive branch by the constitution. THAT is how.

The Executive branch is using the POWER given to them by the law created by the Legislative branch. as long as they are within the law (they are) there is nothing the Legislative branch can do, except ask if they are within the law. The answer will be that they are (big surpise, right?)

OR they can change the law and strip this power from the Executive Branch and give it to...who? Who will investogate if a person is a threat to the USA? The Judicial branch? No. The Legislative Branch? No. Another way is for you to challenge the actions in court and get a court to rule that the law or power given is unconstitutional. This will have the effect of stopping ALL visas until a new law which IS constitutional is passed. Do you think that would happen faster than waiting for AP?

But, as it is, the people YOU voted for created the law and GAVE this authority to the Department of State (executive branch) That is how it happens. Make more sense now?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

As for the fact that "They do not need "justification" it can even be random"

This is peoples lives that they are "randomly" delaying.

That is true. And what? It is a fact that they can randomly place cases in AP, it is in the powers granted to them by law created by elected representatives that you voted for to protect Americans.

They are delaying the issuance of a visa to a non-citizen who has no US constitutional rights. That is a fact. They are NOT delaying you getting married and they are NOT preventing you from being together. They are only doing so as it relates to the United States and THAT is their job. You are free, as an American, to board a plane today, go to Albania and marry your fiancee and live there. If THEY will let you.

The problem here is that they ARE acting professionally and you do not happen to like it because it does not fit your plans which were made without consulting them. They ARE doing what your elected representatives assigned them to do.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Alla,

I have discussed this at length with my friends. What makes me very upset is that it seems like the people making the decisions have more power than our politicians. How can it be that the people we pick to represent us, Congressmen and Senators, who have the power to make and change laws, do not have any power with it comes to such matters. There should be a chain of command whereby people higher on the chain should be able to override the decisions of their subordinated (just as my boss has the power to override mt decisions at work). There needs to be accountability.

I read somewhere (I cannot recall the source right now), that the preliminary review is done by USCIS and NVC, and that the embassy should only refuse or AP cases which are considered highly suspicious at the time of interview. However, doing some research, it seems like almost every Albanian on VJ has had a difficult time with this Embassy. My fiance said that out of all the people that interviewed with her that day, almost all of them were given a 221g on the spot, only 1 or 2 made it though, and even those were on their 2nd or 3rd interview.

It just doesn't seem fair or justified to me. We do pay taxes afterall. We should expect some level of professionalism.

just my 2 cents.

What you read regarding what the consulate "should do" is wrong. Or at least "overbroad" as each consulate is different. They will not change their policies because someone wrote something that is wrong.

The ACTUAL experience of Albanians is "right" in terms of what actually happens and what they can actually do. The law allows the Dept of State to determine what is necessary in a given country.

Obviously if this is "normal" for Albania then you are not being picked on and it is not a refusal (but you already knew that) nor has any previous case been "saved" by a Senator on a white horse. Clearly it is what it is, which is what I told you.

If you need an approximate timeline for AP, ask others that have done it.

[Sergi9 110]

Alla,

I have discussed this at length with my friends. What makes me very upset is that it seems like the people making the decisions have more power than our politicians. How can it be that the people we pick to represent us, Congressmen and Senators, who have the power to make and change laws, do not have any power with it comes to such matters. There should be a chain of command whereby people higher on the chain should be able to override the decisions of their subordinated (just as my boss has the power to override mt decisions at work). There needs to be accountability.

I read somewhere (I cannot recall the source right now), that the preliminary review is done by USCIS and NVC, and that the embassy should only refuse or AP cases which are considered highly suspicious at the time of interview. However, doing some research, it seems like almost every Albanian on VJ has had a difficult time with this Embassy. My fiance said that out of all the people that interviewed with her that day, almost all of them were given a 221g on the spot, only 1 or 2 made it though, and even those were on their 2nd or 3rd interview.

It just doesn't seem fair or justified to me. We do pay taxes afterall. We should expect some level of professionalism.

just my 2 cents.

Many people mistakenly believe that legal concepts such as due process apply to matters going before US Consular officers. In reality, this is not the case. Consular officers have very broad powers when it comes to adjudicating applications for United States visas. There are laws on the books that Consular Officers must observe when determining whether or not a US visa should be issued, but when making factual determinations, the doctrine commonly referred to as Consular Absolutism applies to their decisions.

The Doctrine of Consular Absolutism basically states that the factual decisions of Consular Officers are not subject to appeal. This legal notion is also called Consular Nonreviewability. In the case of Bustamante v. Mukasey the 9th Circuit Court of appeals concisely summed up the limited scope of judicial review that will be granted with regard to a Consular decisions in visa matters:

“[A] U.S citizen raising a constitutional challenge to the denial of a visa is entitled to a limited judicial inquiry regarding the reason for the decision. As long as the reason given is facially legitimate and bona fide the decision will not be disturbed…”

Showing that a Consular Officer’s reason for their decision is facially illegitimate or not bona fide is extremely difficult, if not, practically impossible. As a result, their decisions regarding visa issuance are essentially final.

Many wonder why Consuls are accorded such broad powers. The reason these officers are granted this ability to make unappealable decisions is based upon the policy argument that a Consular Officer is in the absolute best position to adjudicate the facts of a given visa application. In a way, Consular officers and the Doctrine of Consular Absolutism are the first lines of defense when it comes to preventing the entry of unqualified aliens into the United States of America. They are also the first line of defense when it comes to determining fraud, misrepresentation, possible terrorist suspects, and facts which could result in a finding of legal inadmissibility. Therefore, Consular officers must be provided with the authority to deny visa applications that they find either suspicious or deficient.

This is why in visa cases involving family members it is very important to prove up the bona fides of the underlying relationship. A K1 visa application is based upon a relationship between a US Citizen and a foreign national. Proving the bona fides of this relationship can be crucial to a favorable decision. This is also true for marriage visas such as the K3 visa and the CR1 visa.

Although, some have questioned the wisdom of granting such broad powers the prerogatives exercised by Consular officers are not abused as those in the Consular Corps perform their duties efficiently, courteously, and thoughtfully. That being said, there are cases where the applicant must be denied for factual reasons. The only way to facilitate this necessity is to provide Consular Officers with a wide degree of discretion in adjudicating visa applications.

Another very valid policy argument for the retention of the Doctrine of Consular Absolutism (Consular Nonreviewability) is based upon the notion that allowing for an appeals process in US visa cases would create a tremendous administrative burden upon the Department of State specifically and the United States government generally. Therefore, it is unlikely that this situation will change in the near future.

http://integrity-legal.com/legal-blog/us-visa-immigration/the-doctrine-of-consular-absolutism-or-consular-nonreviewability/

[AlbaEagles<3 1]

Thanks Sergi9

[MIBEN 83]

Completely understand your frustration. My husband went to his interview and they put him on AP for 61 days before he got called back for a second interview. You can call DOS and find out what type of AP he is on local or at Washington, D.C. In my husband's case they kept his passport which was a good sign but I also heard of others whom they returned the passport and they still got the visa approved.

It is not a denial if it was denied the case would be on it's way back to USCIS. There is no standard on how long AP takes it could be up to 1 year or less depends on what they are researching. We were not missing anything and still got AP others were told your visa is approved but placed on AP so it all depends on the CO. Be patient and keep your spirits up, you have not been denied. You can do an inquiry with the consulate after 90 days.

Good luck,